Accuracy needs to be reduced on ALL the weapons ingame

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Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
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The game has no bullet spread for bolt, sniper, and especially semiauto rifles.
This is my point.

THERE IS NO BULLET SPREAD IN THE GAME.

Sorry but you're wrong, there is bullet spread modelled for all the weapons ingame, ask any of the devs.

Also seeing as I can achieve sub MOA 5 shot groups with some of my K98k's at 200 m in real life, I would expect the same ingame.

Also just incase you were wondering, the K98k's handpicked for sharpshooters due to displaying higher than normal accuracy were required to have a spread no higher than 8 shots could be placed within a headsized target at 400 meters.

Heck even the base requirement for the G43 sniper rifle was pretty darn strickt, requiring a spread no larger than a 70mm in diameter 8 shot group at 100 meters.

In short: The accuracy of these rifles almost always supercedes that of the user, i.e. they hit what they're aimed at.
 
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palco

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
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Sorry but you're wrong, there is bullet spread modelled for all the weapons ingame, ask any of the devs.

Also seeing as I can achieve sub MOA 5 shot groups with some of my K98k's at 200 m in real life, I would expect the same ingame.

Also just incase you were wondering, the K98k's handpicked for sharpshooters due to displaying higher than normal accuracy were required to have a spread no higher than 8 shots could be placed within a headsized target at 400 meters.

Heck even the base requirement for the G43 sniper rifle was pretty darn strickt, requiring a spread no larger than a 70mm in diameter 8 shot group at 100 meters.

In short: The accuracy of these rifles almost always supercedes that of the user, i.e. they hit what they're aimed at.


At this point, I wanna ask did you actually have to undergo infantry training which includes ****ty meals, almost all day's walking, poor sleep, and it's really chilly to sleep in the woods.

Firing range where you can be well fed, have good night's sleep, and can have perfect condition of weapon is very very very differenct story from combat infantry situation.

Look at the picture how U.S. marines sleep in iraq war on google.
Look at any of historical picture of soldiers from stalingrad, if they look cleanly shaved, well fed, well hygiened.

and while at it, look for actual firefight of bankrobbery between police officers and bank robber i.e. some famous LA bank robbery footage

How accurate they could be between car covers
Note that police officers, and robbers both were (revised) relatively undertrained or untrained combatants compared to soldiers who's been in warzone more than a few weeks, just like you gamers.

Again, this petty bank robbery firefight is pretty minor one compared to such brutal warfare in stalingrad according to some history books.

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.1 - YouTube
 
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Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
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Police officers, and robbers both were undertrained or untrained combatants just like you gamers.

double-facepalm1.jpg
 

Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
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Accuracy of the weapons themselves is fine. If you wanna simulate poorer training or skill of the human operator then add weapon sway, it's the only realistic solution.

Currently I'm fine with weapon handling ingame except for two things:

1) Too little sway after sprinting
2) Too fast shouldering of weapon

I'm really liking that weapon control (esp. recoil control) is increased with each lvl, simulates experience gained handling weapons very well.
 
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palco

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
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never fired ww2 rifles but they are known to be much more accurate than modern ones, so not much to add.

Underprepared, underexperienced for actual firefight would be more accurate.

Compared to soldiers who weren't fresh out of training who had more than dozens of heavier situations than this in stalingrad.

and better fed, and might have better physical condition..fatter? than soldiers in warzone.
 
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Holy.Death

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
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catbarf said:
Adding no more than a foot of deviation at 200-300yds would punish new players and devalue skill?
From what I see most kills comes from 1 to 1XX meters. Some are longer (2XX), but 3XX are extremely rare and I talk about guns not tank combat right now. Sniper rifle is useful, because it has scope to help find and aim at the target more accurately than it is possible with standard ironsight.
 

Josef Nader

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
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Tee hee, the real joke here is that no matter how much you guys whine about things being too easy (and far more realistic), the dev's aren't going to change a damn thing. That's because out of the 3-4 people here making these preposterous arguments for exaggerated sway, goofy bullet spread, and unrealistic difficulty, there are thousands of players currently enjoying the game exactly how it is right now. Sure, some of these players will take off when something new and shiny comes out, but RO2 is going to go strong for a long time to come just the way it is.

You want unrealistic difficulty and RNGs to determine the outcome of your battles? ARMA, RO1, and co. haven't gone anywhere. Everyone else has moved on.
 

palco

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
123
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Maybe interviewing dozens of war vets marksman, sharpshooters on subject would conclude the issue.

:IS2:

Maybe from some actual snipers, who handled various weaponry, it would be better.

Hopefully modders can get this thing right nothing like anything else..
Afterall, RO2 is commercial product yet mod is for hardcore fans mostly.

Live well and prosper, TWI.
I don't like a compromise that much in a niche game.

That's why I completely forego bioware.
 
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Josef Nader

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
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Maybe interviewing dozens of war vets marksman, sharpshooters on subject would conclude the issue.

:IS2:

then can that be possible?..

You wouldn't listen to them either. You'd just tell them to load up AA3 and check out the gun handling in there as far more realistic than anything they could have experienced.
 

Pip-boy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
40
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Also seeing as I can achieve sub MOA 5 shot groups with some of my K98k's at 200 m in real life, I would expect the same ingame.
My K98 will never do that, it`s 2-3 moa at least. You need to be more specific about the one you have and the ammo you use, because sum-moa with K98 is rarely possible (if ever) unless its floated and handloads are used.
I think I need to counterbore it though... but anyway: given the ammo they had, given not this nitpicky grouping that maybe 1 out of 10 rifles get, the spread is much more on average 2-3 moa.
And as I said, even more so for semiautos.
I can post if you like a video of an SVT that warps (!!) while being shot, so that's no sniper rifle either.

You think it`s fine, I don`t. We may agree to disagree but not 100 out of 100 K98`s will shoot sub-moa not by a longshot, unless they are hand-picked, floated, and fed some miracle ammo.

S***, sub-moa from that rifle would put it in same category as best bull barreled repeaters we have today. So IMHO you are either extremely lucky with yours, or its modded.
 
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palco

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
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hmm...the only thing making real weapons inaccurate is the recoil and badly configured sights...I don't see why a weapon with good sights should not hit where it is aimed at.


You didn't fire a real weapon.
 

Pip-boy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
40
6
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You wouldn't listen to them either.
Pot calling the kettle black?

We have these rifles today, we have people who own them and shoot them, and we have their own testimonies or records of how they perform.
I posted some a while back, you saw away from that completely.
Have you had your cookie yet?
 

Reise

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 1, 2006
2,687
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Maine, US
Well now that sway seems to be increased I don't think there's a need for anything like this anymore.
 

Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
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My K98 will never do that, it`s 2-3 moa at least. You need to be more specific about the one you have and the ammo you use, because sum-moa with K98 is rarely possible (if ever) unless its floated and handloads are used.
I think I need to counterbore it though... but anyway: given the ammo they had, given not this nitpicky grouping that maybe 1 out of 10 rifles get, the spread is much more on average 2-3 moa.
And as I said, even more so for semiautos.
I can post if you like a video of an SVT that warps (!!) while being shot, so that's no sniper rifle either.

You think it`s fine, I don`t. We may agree to disagree but not 100 out of 100 K98`s will shoot sub-moa not by a longshot, unless they are hand-picked, floated, and fed some miracle ammo.

S***, sub-moa from that rifle would put it in same category as best bull barreled repeaters we have today. So IMHO you are either extremely lucky with yours, or its modded.

Nope, besides glass bedding one of the rifle's stock they're all original. Best 5 shot grouping I did so far measured 0.73 MOA at 400 m. This was achieved using a 12x scope mind you, and fully resting the rifle along all of the forward stock.

As for the ammunition: I shoot reloaded sS ball, making sure the charges are precisely measured and using modern primers to avoid having to clean the rifle after each trip to the range. The bullets are picked from original cartridges, have around 10,000 rounds of German surplus on stock atm.




I'm trying to closely mimick the ammunition German snipers would have available to them in limited quantities, their own special purpose sniping ammunition known as the 'effect-firing' sS round (Beschuss Patrone). This type of ammunition closely resembled the regular sS ball, except it seated a 12.8 gram sS bullet of match grade quality, missing regular features such as the cannelure etc., and featuring a more precisely measured propellant charge instead.

And regarding the handselected German sharpshooter rifles, the company armourers would actually free float the barrels of these rifles within the stock, as-well as rework the triggers to the snipers' desired trigger pull weight.

So I wouldn't call it unrealistic to expect sub MOA performance from one of these hand selected sniper rifle K98's.

Here's my buddy Ernie shooting his own K98, everything original besides glass bedded stock and a 12x scope. He's shooting handloaded 200 gr Sierra MK rounds. Target is an 18 inch iron plate circle, same size as a human chest. Range is 900 yards, or 850 meters. Result: 5 shots, 4 hits, 1 miss.
WWII German 98K rifle at 900 yards - YouTube

Finally regarding modern sharpshooting rifles, the German DSR-1 is expected to perform sub 0.25 MOA 5 shot groupings using military match ammunition, however higher performance, sub 0.2 MOA, can be achieved using certain commercial match. Besides this these modern sniper rifles are expected to keep performing even during prolonged shooting, which is where they differ greatly from the old rifles which suffer much more in accuracy as the barrel heats up. The Germans went some way to combat this by stepping the barrel, which did help, but it still isn't as effective as the thick modern bull barrels in terms of heat dissipation.

So modern sniper rifles have definitely come some way since WW2, esp. in terms of consistency during prolonged firing, but also in terms of accuracy going from 0.75 MOA at best to consistent sub 0.25 MOA (DSR-1 ex.).
 
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Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
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2-3 MOA is what you expect from an assault rifle (albeit maybe not an AK47 :p)

Btw, I'd like to point out that the SVT40 has accuracy issues for a number of reasons, one being that it's semi automatic, and early semi autos had serious problems in this respect. The next being the low tolerances of the design. And finally a long slender barrel with poor barrel harmonics. In short it can't even remotely be compared to a bolt action rifle when it comes to consistent accuracy.
 

dibbler67

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2011
654
6
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Texas
...
Here's my buddy Ernie shooting his own K98...
:eek: Wow, you know that guy? That's awesome. One of his videos convinced me to pick up my Swiss K31 (an amazing rifle in its own right.)

Here's the one:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-Lcvyrifw" target="_blank">1,000 yards, open sights, Swiss K31 7.5x55 Schmidt-Rubin 7.5x55 rifle - YouTube

Of course, I have a long way to go before I'm that good. He is seriously amazing.

Hmm. The video double posted... I don't know how to fix it.

Edit 2: It didn't....
 
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Josef Nader

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
1,713
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RO2 rifle sway - YouTube

Short video of rifle sway at zero stamina, both rested and unrested, as well as an attempt to shoot a buddy immediately after sprinting.

Apparently the soldier keeps tighter control over the weapon immediately after coming out of sprint, then attempts to calm down his breathing, resulting in quick, small sway followed by large amounts before regaining his breath.
/thread

There it is, guys. All the sway you could possibly want.

It's already in the game. It's been in the game since the beta. There's plenty of sway to simulate realistic shooting, and you guys simply want unrealistic, exaggerated sway like some other "realistic" shooters out there:

COD MW2 Sniper Montage - YouTube

Seriously, I don't want to hear anyone else mention the words "more weapon sway" ever again. I was at a friends house watching him play CoD, and I realized why that game is such a horrific run-and-gun fest. The weapon sway is outrageous. The iron sights deviate almost two inches on his 60" TV, and the sniper rifles are even worse, spiraling around the screen like the shooter is drunk. Nobody can hit anything unless they're 30 yards away, which is why they need to be able to run and jump so much in order to win.

Seriously guys, if you turn RO2 into ****ing Call of Duty I'll come to your house and beat you with a cactus.
 

Sardukar

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 15, 2011
14
3
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RO2 rifle sway - YouTube

/thread

There it is, guys. All the sway you could possibly want.

It's already in the game. It's been in the game since the beta. There's plenty of sway to simulate realistic shooting, and you guys simply want unrealistic, exaggerated sway like some other "realistic" shooters out there:

COD MW2 Sniper Montage - YouTube

Seriously, I don't want to hear anyone else mention the words "more weapon sway" ever again. I was at a friends house watching him play CoD, and I realized why that game is such a horrific run-and-gun fest. The weapon sway is outrageous. The iron sights deviate almost two inches on his 60" TV, and the sniper rifles are even worse, spiraling around the screen like the shooter is drunk. Nobody can hit anything unless they're 30 yards away, which is why they need to be able to run and jump so much in order to win.

Seriously guys, if you turn RO2 into ****ing Call of Duty I'll come to your house and beat you with a cactus.

sry but the amount of sway in RO2 doesnt come even close to real life, get over it, people want change and they should be able to voice their opinion on the forums.
 

Colt .45 killer

Grizzled Veteran
May 19, 2006
3,996
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Im not sure if you intend to post the AA3 as a 'look this is realistic' link. Even if it is a Modern AR like the m16A4 is not only lighter, but more ballanced toward the rear end when compared to a ww2 rifle.


( Ergo, even if it is 100% accurate, its still wrong )

Also Unus, you know that crazy guy? I had to surgically re-attach my jaw after watching a whole pile of those videos. ( you in any of em mate? )

Tis a pitty he hasnt done one with an enfield yet... :D