About the Entrenchement tool

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Polygon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2005
604
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polygon.redorchestragame.com
Jack said:
BTW I would jsut like to add to Polygon personally, that although I feel for you having done this hard work and then having people nitpick unnecesarily, perhaps now you will have a more open attitude than you have shown in the past to other developers, where you yourself openly nitpicked and belittled...call it Karma.

People can "nitpick" away all they want, I never once said or implied, "I can criticize you but don't expect to do the same to my work!" The fact that Taranov and I engaged in a debate to this length is indicative of the tolerance I have for such concerns.
 

Taranov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 19, 2005
49
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Moscow, Russia
www.mobygames.com
Polygon said:
People can "nitpick" away all they want, I never once said or implied, "I can criticize you but don't expect to do the same to my work!"

Don't forget about M36 helmet, puttees, budenovka hat and another old stuff. They also use in Red Army. Ah - also german M18 helmet:p
Next my "suggestion" - just after release. Beware... :p :rolleyes:
 

BicycleRepairMan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
627
1
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Drammen, Norway
Nice post jack, but please, no reason for suggestive name-calling here.. its just a damn shovel. :)

A shovel is like 5 times as useful in wintertime, take it from someone who has taken shifts digging away snow from a tent in a snowstorm :) one guy would clean the whole tent, and when you were finished, you could just wake the next guy..
 

RedStorm

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
286
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The Netherlands
Polygon said:
...And you had better be best prepared, I don't give quarters on this sort of thing :)

Double-post spammer! Reset your postcount, please! :eek:

Anyway, nothing wrong with a little debate. Suggestions are always appreciated, it's just the tone in which this guy is making them that's bothering most of us I think.
 

Jack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 24, 2005
752
0
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RedStorm said:
Double-post spammer! Reset your postcount, please! :eek:

Anyway, nothing wrong with a little debate. Suggestions are always appreciated, it's just the tone in which this guy is making them that's bothering most of us I think.

Yeah I don't think half of us would have got as irritated as we did if we wasn't running around saying the overall quality is "horrible" or not up to "retail quality," etc. Suggestions are suppossed to be about making a product better, not as an opportunity to try and deride or slander a product, which was what he was doing.

Like I said it is hard to remain civil when a self-appointed expert can recite a couple of technical details, but then seems to lack common sense.
 

THG repo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 25, 2005
606
4
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Auckland New Zealand
More importantly

More importantly

Do I get one of those spade things?
Can I dig my self a hole?
Can I hit my mate with one?



Maybe just maybe...

I didn't realize they had internet back then computers must have been big and heavy if you needed a e tool that big maybe they were coal powered?
 

Jack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 24, 2005
752
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LOL 3 page crusade? I wish I read Russian.


BTW I would like to take this opportunity to elaborate more as to some of the confusion over the spade. The reason Taranov probably asserted it was a "German shovel" is because it looks very much like an Austrian one.

The Russians essentially copied much of the design, but as I said earlier, you can tell it is Russian by several distinct features. The riveting on the back plate is very heavy, and most German spades have very tiny rivets, or spot welding.

The reinforcing band on the upper part of the haft is also considerably larger than on the Austrian example, and you will notice that the steel goes much farther down the haft overall on the Russian one, almost all the way to the end. The German and Austrian spades terminate the steel much earlier above the end, and are less robust overall.

The fact was that the Russians fielded a variety of spades, with both leather and canvas covers. They used WWI and even earlier stock in WWII, and just after the war, they even made an exact copy of the German folding spade, adding to the confusion.
 

noshens

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 25, 2005
129
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New York City
Since the leather etool carriers were only made prewar and in the beginning stages of the war Red Army was suffering extraordinary losses, I don't really think there were too many of them left by the winter of 1942. And the lost ones were quickly replaced with the canvas carriers anyway.

If developers can't model every single solider separately then why not make the gear of an average red army soldier?
 

Jack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 24, 2005
752
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Yes I agree that it would be more appropriate to have the later spade with canvas covering.

I don't know why Polygon chose one of the more rare examples, but it doesn't mean it won't suffice.
 

Polygon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2005
604
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polygon.redorchestragame.com
As stated before, leather carriers are not extraordinarily rare as you all seem to believe and would in fact be a preferred item for soldiers in the field over the rather less durable canvas alternative. Considering that the leather carriers were manufactured and updated throughout the war in addition to making use of earlier stocks, they were most certainly not abandoned or completely replaced (especially during the first few years before the ersatz material even became more prevalent).