About "RO2 Dying"

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Cyper

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Preach it brother! Very happy with every purchase I have made from Tripwire, extremely happy with RO:HoS and very much looking forward to some of the plans they have for it's future. Keep up the good work TWI! Remember, some people would find a reason to complain even if they won the lottery, don't let all the whining get you down.

Well, TWI sold people out with the release of RO2, no matter if you like to be positive and ignore the games errors like nothing have happend. No one can deny that. It's like saying RO2 is more tactical and realistic than RO ost. All the ''whining'' contains a fair amount of truth, such as the fact that the formula of RO is changed completely and thar TWI never informed people about it. Precise - we would they? That would just mean less people would have bought the game. What Ramm said in my opinion is that we're supposed to change the game to what it is supposed to be in the beginning. Hilarious. You buy a tactical shooter, a sequel to a great game, and then you find out that it's taken a completely diffrent direction, and then the Devs tell you to fix it up by yourself. The modders going to save them. No matter what people say the formula that was used in RO ost is drastically changed and the people who liked it were sold out for the mainstream audience and now TWI gives the suggestion that we should make the game what it was supposed to be in the first place by ourself. That's how I feel about it at least.
 
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Holy.Death

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Cypher said:
It Tripwire don't have manpower to fix what's broken it's their own fault. They changed the formula in the first place.
They don't say it's broken. They provide people the means to change the game for those who want it and mark that they couldn't make the game accessible for all. Some people like RO2 more than RO1, some have it the other way around and I am certain that we have some people who would like something in-between RO1 and RO2. What is broken for you is not broken for someone else.

Cypher said:
Well, TWI sold people out with the release of RO2. No one can deny that.
Of course it can be denied. It's just a point of view and is as valid as any other. I wouldn't say that TWI sold their old audience with the release of RO2 or at least they didn't completely - with mods, maps and free extra content the game can be playable by almost any audience.

For the record - I understand your point. I simply don't agree with it. Or at least not in full.
 
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Destraex

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Cyper, are you saying you pre-ordered thinking RO2 would be RO1?
 
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Cyper

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They don't say it's broken. They provide people the means to change the game for those who want it and mark that they couldn't make the game accessible for all. Some people like RO2 more than RO1, some have it the other way around and I am certain that we have some people who would like something in-between RO1 and RO2. What is broken for you is not broken for someone else.


Of course it can be denied. It's just a point of view and is as valid as any other. I wouldn't say that TWI sold their old audience with the release of RO2 or at least they didn't completely - with mods, maps and free extra content the game can be playable by almost any audience.

For the record - I understand your point. I simply don't agree with it. Or at least not in full.

What does ''sold out'' mean for you?

For me, in this case, it means that they've more or less dumped their old audience like a pile of crap since they realized that they want to reach out to the mainstream. Who made RO2 possible? I can tell you. People that were working with mods like DH. People who bought RO OST. People that were putting huge amount of time into the game for free. It's the same people who have kept RO alive for the last year by investing a lot of time in it. Now, the whole RO formula is suddenly changed into something else because TWI decides that the old audience isn't enough. And there's no point to deny all this. A handfull of videos and experience from the players right here on this board proves that. That's exactly what accessibility is about. Making the game enjoyable for everyone. If you want a tactical shooter to be enjoyable for everyone, well, then you better remove the tactical side of it. So if this game doesn't follow the Red Orchestra formula the game is broken if it's called Red Orchestra.

Cyper, are you saying you pre-ordered thinking RO2 would be RO1?

Like the roughly 1,000,000 people who bought Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising I bought the game because of It's name and the marketing around it. It's weird. When I buy gta I expect it to be like gta, and when I buy arma i expect it to be like arma, and when i buy cod i expect it to be like cod. That can be a huge mistake, obviously.
 
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vIoLeNt G

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so RO2 isnt dying, just like origin isnt spyware! Riiight! ;)


untill there is a hero assault class with 1-2 mkb's / avt's me and a couple of mates an staying well clear of this game... but i guess we are the minority of the population of ro2 players.



all i can say is keep up the good work with the patches and stuff ;):cool:
 

Apos

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Thanks Ramm for an update.

Ramm, I'm glad you posted your thoughts and I'm glad to hear about the commitment to future polish (not that I expected the game would be abandoned) but I still find it puzzling you keep ignoring key issues. You paint a picture of the forums being a hodge podge of a million opinions, when in reality, there's a pretty unanimous agreement on where the game has gone wrong. It's understandable if you personally disagree with these views but what I can't understand is why the changes won't be made in realism mode while relaxed realism can stay the same. Maybe I missed your comment on these issues but I don't think I have. Saying new content/polish is coming is needed and very nice to hear but it doesn't alleviate current popular gameplay concerns. Taken from my previous thread with some edits, the issues are:

+ increased weapon sway (I said before I prefer the sharp accuracy of RO2 which is more like the mod but at the same time gunfights result in who saw who first which makes the game too fast paced and the battles less interesting. Just a slight increase here would be nice because this might be largely fixed with the next two points on the list...)
+ increased time it takes to accurately aim (slightly)
+ harder to line up target after going into iron sight (slightly)
+ less autos
+ MKB/AVT40 only available to heroes (yeah this can be done manually now but it should be default in realism mode)
+ new larger maps with longer rages (this might have to wait until when/if we get half tracks, trucks, and other transport vehicles)
+ longer time until bleed out starts
+ longer window to bandage to prevent bleed out
+ a more cohesive squad system
+ option to choose leveling upgrades

In addition to that, I think its worth mentioning the huge drop in launch week player counts. IIRC there were 8-10,000 players around launch. This sharply dropped to 3,000 before dropping to the current 500-1000 at peak NA time. It looks like the current peak 1,500 value is coming from euro peak time which is disappointing for NA players. For a game not marketed so well you would hope the game would be climbing the charts based on word of mouth not steeply dropping 80% of players since launch and still dropping. And then as hockey said, the complaints we're hearing from most of the community isn't so much "BF3 is out now, peace!" but more of a dissatisfaction with RO2 itself.

With that said, I love the game and I've defended it more than most I think. But it's 1.5 months in and despite the reassurances I'm not sure the major gameplay decisions being made are on the right track at this point. If you really believe BF3's launch was the cause of losing half the remaining playerbase then you really need to start paying attention to who's left. You got the mainstream's money and lots of initial players but look at the facts: they ditched you in a few weeks. Now you need to listen to the guys who either stuck around or are waiting patiently for changes. That's where the long-term support is going to come from. The changes I listed are not huge overhauls and, like I said before, they are the opinion of the majority, not some random complaints. Address those issues and use the boatload of cash to strengthen what really matters, the core community.

EDIT: And obviously, the SDK is hugely important for long term success. I remember full mods were expected to be release within a few months of launch and at this point the SDK isn't even fully functioning and that's being positive (it's largely been very broken). Huge emphasis needs to be placed on getting this out very soon. Fan's eagerness to use the SDK is greatly impacted by how popular the game is which is another strong motivator to fix the key gameplay problems and bring in a larger solid playerbase.

This post is full of win and I'd like to hear answer on that. Also +1 to that what Zetsumei posted.

Beside that there is MW3 coming, so if playerbase drops below 1000 it will be CoDs fault? I think that what these guys wrote is an answer, what's going wrong with RO2, it's game(play) design.
 

Piscator

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I fully agree with Amerikaner!

Please Ramm look into these issues. Minor changes might have a huge impact on gameplay even if you do not like them.
+1 Amerikaner from me.
 
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ightenhill

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+1 Amerikaner (if enough people plus it thats soon going to be a little more than 0.01% of the entire playerbase) and we may then get an official response.
 
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Kenobi

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Agreed with Amerikaner!

No doubt when MW3 is relased, Ramm will be releasing a statement saying "It's because of MW3 there are only four hundred people playing at peak".

Irregardless, TWI need to focus on the community that is left. They will always have a hardcore fanbase, myself included, have been since Ostfront. But they need to really concentrate on what they have, rather than trying to continually reel in others.
 

Roland Kaul

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Unfortunately the vast majority of 24.Pz is less than thrilled with RO2 and from what I understand, we will likely be suspending unit activity and reorganizing in the near future to support other games.

I want to love RO2. I just can't with all the bugs, maps and loadouts currently implemented.

The other thing that *REALLY* grinds my gears, is the snark from some of the developers:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24363324&postcount=27

Holy fricking Moses.
 

Holy.Death

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Cypher said:
What does ''sold out'' mean for you?
Aliens vs Predator for example - it was heavily bugged on launch, had no mod tools (and they threw in a DLC with some maps you had to pay for to play, laughable) and is no longer patched as I see. Abandoned shortly after people paid for it. In RO2's case it's different, because we'll have mod tools to make content of our own to reshape the game to our image(s), TWI is still patching the game and willing to bring in fresh and free content (or so they speak). The game is not what you wished it to be? You'll be able to adjust it with mods. It's more than some games let you to do.

I am not saying it's perfect. It still needs patches, changes, in some cases mods to change the gameplay completely, but the game is still supported, one way or the other. You are not on your own.

Cypher said:
Who made RO2 possible? I can tell you.
But the game doesn't belong to them because of that. It's like saying that because "your parents made you" you shouldn't tell them that they say or make wrong choice, even if they do. Claiming that the past is somehow more important than the present/future is only another opinion, not the fact. Far more foul thing is - for me - blocking any possibility to mod the game and releasing P2P DLC's in order to take even more money from the people.

Cypher said:
Like the roughly 1,000,000 people who bought Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising I bought the game because of It's name and the marketing around it. It's weird. When I buy gta I expect it to be like gta, and when I buy arma i expect it to be like arma, and when i buy cod i expect it to be like cod. That can be a huge mistake, obviously.
Do you based on the title alone? I checked out who made Operation Flashpoint in the first place and didn't buy Dragon Rising in the end. RO2 is not following modern theme of game making. They didn't make "the same but better", instead they changed a lot of things, because they wished so. I remember people contesting changes in other games too, but I think that's the price for progress (more or less successful) and being more creative instead of following the old (and checked/safe) formula. New things are always more dangerous than the old ones, but if they work everyone is focusing on them.
 
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Colt .45 killer

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May 19, 2006
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Unfortunately the vast majority of 24.Pz is less than thrilled with RO2 and from what I understand, we will likely be suspending unit activity and reorganizing in the near future to support other games.

I want to love RO2. I just can't with all the bugs, maps and loadouts currently implemented.

The other thing that *REALLY* grinds my gears, is the snark from some of the developers:

[url]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24363324&postcount=27[/URL]

Holy fricking Moses.

Why would someone downvote this, its Yosh telling people that native lang is an option not 1 month before release. Something that is un true and requires the end user to tweak the game to get access too, is that what is meant by "option"? In that case this game has "options" to apease to all gamers, they just require you to mod the game to your desires first, then see theres the option! :rolleyes:
 
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Yoshiro

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Unfortunately the vast majority of 24.Pz is less than thrilled with RO2 and from what I understand, we will likely be suspending unit activity and reorganizing in the near future to support other games.

I want to love RO2. I just can't with all the bugs, maps and loadouts currently implemented.

The other thing that *REALLY* grinds my gears, is the snark from some of the developers:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24363324&postcount=27

Holy fricking Moses.

At the time I said that, it was a planned feature for launch that we had stated several times. That thread was one of many that said we did not plan to support it with "facts" to back it up(counter to what had been said before publicly by members of Tripwire).

Sadly, that intended feature did not make launch (along with several others such as multiplayer campaign and coop). Does that make me look bad, yes it does. However to my knowledge we still plan support for it in the future, but it isn't on the high priority list atm due to other issues.