A second/third Medic Gun?

[_Duke_]

The adrenaline buff dart sounds fine to me, although I'd make it do more than just buff run speed. Perhaps increase melee damage too, but at the cost of adding some jitters to aiming.

I'd also want the adrenaline buff darts on limited ammo, ~5 or so.

 

[timur]

i really don't think people have that exact idea of what the medic class is for. me for example, i am tired of seeing medics buying crossbows or katanas to become better killers as that is not their role. however i do understand that the class has to have some type of actual "weapon" to keep it engaged in the action. TW adding the mp7 was absolutely brilliant since it allowed the medic to have something to kill with and something to heal with.

the idea that light machine guns belonging to the class is the result of the mp7 being an smg. the functionality and nature of an "smg" type weapon fits well with the perk as those types of weapons are small in size, light in weight, relatively weak in damage, and have a high rate of fire to make up for the lack of damage. so when somebody like me made the proposition to move the bullpup to the medic, the gun fits that "smg" mentality that's already seen in the mp7.



well not if that dart does something different then the current healing darts......which your idea is a dart that tranquilizes zeds and give adrenaline to team mates correct?



no offense, but the dart gun you described on its own, would be pointless. however the concept of what the darts do is the key to this basic idea. a traquilizer dart IS a great idea. it does something useful, and something different that all the other "healing" objects (syringe, darts) the medic already has available.

my suggestion of applying your "dart gun" idea as an attachment for the bullpup would give a uniqueness to the weapon from the "medic" role standpoint, while giving the perk another means of killing so that medics aren't buying non-perk weapons like katanas, crossbows etc...... plus, balance would be kept intact.



yup agreed, which is why i like your idea for an alternative "healing" dart. i think of the medics role as the team's "guardian" or "protector". the current medic darts/syringe heal team mates. your tranquilizer/adrenaline dart idea would protect your team mates by giving them a boost or slowing down the enemies. that's why i love the concept. however i just don't see the idea, by itself, making much of a difference. after seeing the way most medics play that role, they want more of an ability to kill. so i say give them that ability with something like the bullpup, but better encourage them to "protect/heal" their team mates with something like your dart idea in the form of a weapon attachement.

Yes, we are at last agreed.

I was thinking of a dart gun instead of just as attachments, but it is possible to add both, no? A bullpup with a differnt kind of dart and/or a seperate dart gun, both ideas work. And, in my opinion, the more options for the medic, the better!


And yes,_Duke_, I am thinking ammo for the boosts perhaps, although just 5 of each dart would be a tad low for an entire dart gun. For the attachment, it sounds about right, but the gun ideas would require far more.

And don't forget the tranquilizer dart (as an alt-attack for the gun, or a seperate attache), which theoretically could calm FPs and stun zombies. For the dart gun, it would be an alt-attack, and for the attachment, perhaps an option to switch in the trader? Or perhaps the boost dart could stun/calm, thereby making conservation key? And also this idea is optional, but i like it (the dart at least)

So I hope that just about explains it all, and answers some Qs.

But what of these new ideas? Do you approve?

 

[_Duke_]

And yes,_Duke_, I am thinking ammo for the boosts perhaps, although just 5 of each dart would be a tad low for an entire dart gun. For the attachment, it sounds about right, but the gun ideas would require far more.

Ah, sorry that I didn't explain my thoughts clearly. Basically, I was thinking the buff darts could be their own separate thing, like grenades. That's why I used the number 5.

I think a buff weapon would be overpowered and I would not want that. I'd be in favor of the more finite 5-count, separate from any gun... maybe right-click with the default hand-syringe? I guess that wouldn't make them darts any more, but the medic gun right-click and alt fire are already used.

 

[crazyjake56]

It is a cool idea but it leaves the question, "what happens to medic gun costs?". It seems like they would have to change around the costs a bit which maybe discouraging to some. But then again maybe you could just say, "Deal with it".

 

[timur]

Ah, sorry that I didn't explain my thoughts clearly. Basically, I was thinking the buff darts could be their own separate thing, like grenades. That's why I used the number 5.

I think a buff weapon would be overpowered and I would not want that. I'd be in favor of the more finite 5-count, separate from any gun... maybe right-click with the default hand-syringe? I guess that wouldn't make them darts any more, but the medic gun right-click and alt fire are already used.

Sorry, Im not talking about the current medic gun. Im talking of a new one. I hate to say it, but please read the thread before posting.

And how would a limited-ammo buffing gun that can do no direct damage be overpowered? I think that we are thinking very different things here.


And also, crazyjack, why would that effect the current medic gun's price.?I am sorely confused

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Well the bullpup has always been with the commando and always will be. If this so called dart attachment was optional then I would undoubtfully say yes. But if the Bullpup just said bye to the Commando and went to the Medic then I would again say no because like I said the bullpup will always be with the commando.

not even if the commando gets the L85/SA80 to replace it as the new commando tier1?

And lemme guess the bullpup shud go to the medic and the AK47 shud be the commando's Tier 1 and the SCARMK17 shud be the Tier and the M14 shud be the Tier 3, right?

actually wrong....i presented that as an option, but also explained why that would not be the most efficient or effective solution. what my actual suggestion was is as follows:



Commando:

• tier1 - L85/SA80 ("new" weapon, i.e. a port&polish from the mod)
• tier2 - AK (no base weapon stats changed)
• tier3 - SCAR (no base weapon stats changed)
• alt. tier3 - M14EBR (no base weapon stats changed....only newly applied perk bonuses)

but I do like your ideas and statements, they are very convincing, but there is just one thing wrong, why?

i've heard that now from a couple people....how can you like the ideas and say they are convincing, but then not understand the reasoning as to why i suggest the things i have? isn't that contradictory?

Whats the point? It would be easier to nerf the M14EBR and leave everything else where it's at.

please refer to the other thread where i clearly showed how my ideas would be more effective AND more efficient than any of the proposed "nerf" tweeks for the M14EBR.....thus we stop derailing this thread

Yes, we are at last agreed.

I was thinking of a dart gun instead of just as attachments, but it is possible to add both, no? A bullpup with a differnt kind of dart and/or a seperate dart gun, both ideas work. And, in my opinion, the more options for the medic, the better!

yup yup it seems so

overall i like the two proposed alternative darts, the tranquilizer and adrenaline. i suppose an attachment could be put on the bullpup to have one of the new darts and then a seperate "dart gun" to use the other type of new dart. i guess that way people could easily remember which "gun" to use as each would have a different dart type connected to it. plus, it'd be two new items for the medic to add to his inventory and bring a couple new aspects to gameplay

 

[timur]

not even if the commando gets the L85/SA80 to replace it as the new commando tier1?




actually wrong....i presented that as an option, but also explained why that would not be the most efficient or effective solution. what my actual suggestion was is as follows:




Commando:

• tier1 - L85/SA80 ("new" weapon, i.e. a port&polish from the mod)
• tier2 - AK (no base weapon stats changed)
• tier3 - SCAR (no base weapon stats changed)
• alt. tier3 - M14EBR (no base weapon stats changed....only newly applied perk bonuses)

i've heard that now from a couple people....how can you like the ideas and say they are convincing, but then not understand the reasoning as to why i suggest the things i have? isn't that contradictory?



please refer to the other thread where i clearly showed how my ideas would be more effective AND more efficient than any of the proposed "nerf" tweeks for the M14EBR.....thus we stop derailing this thread



yup yup it seems so

overall i like the two proposed alternative darts, the tranquilizer and adrenaline. i suppose an attachment could be put on the bullpup to have one of the new darts and then a seperate "dart gun" to use the other type of new dart. i guess that way people could easily remember which "gun" to use as each would have a different dart type connected to it. plus, it'd be two new items for the medic to add to his inventory and bring a couple new aspects to gameplay

So at last the long tangent is settled (after a good 3 pages)?


So does anyone else have any questions, complaints or suggestions involving this idea, or has just about everyone spoken their mind?

At this point Im delaying so Tripwire sees it, but shhhhh! Dont tell anyone!
Although I am actually meaning it when I as for more opinions

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

i guess the only thing left to determine is which dart will be used in the bullpup attachement and which dart is used as part of it's own "weapon"?

i would suggest the adrenaline shot for the bullpup attachement as the dart is similar to the healing dart is for the mp7.....that way people can remember darts from guns are meant to shoot teammates with to help them.

then make have a seperate tranquilizer "gun" since it would be the only dart intended to shoot at specimens.

 

[Vaecrius]

It's late and I can't be arsed to read the whole thread. Has anyone suggested a medic weapon that can draw aggro? (though I could totally see two medics totally abusing it and making the zeds bounce back and forth without attacking anyone... I suppose there could be a limit to how often you could do it to any given zed.)

 

[Aze]

Just posting my idea how it could be done (don't flame me please, just an idea!)

Medic:
Tier 1: MP7 Medic Gun
Tier 2: MP5/10 w. Flashlight (Accurate weapon, can only shoot fullauto, and has a supportive flashlight)

Commando:
Tier 3: SCAR MK17 - Swap the scope with the M14's lasersight, making the SCAR more assaultish and less sniperish. (And leaving the bullpup as the "snipery" commando weapon)

Sharpshooter
Tier 3: M14 EBR - Swap the lasersight with the SCAR's battle scope, making the M14 more sniperish and less assaultish.

Thoughts?

 

[timur]

Just posting my idea how it could be done (don't flame me please, just an idea!)

Medic:
Tier 1: MP7 Medic Gun
Tier 2: MP5/10 w. Flashlight (Accurate weapon, can only shoot fullauto, and has a supportive flashlight)

Commando:
Tier 3: SCAR MK17 - Swap the scope with the M14's lasersight, making the SCAR more assaultish and less sniperish. (And leaving the bullpup as the "snipery" commando weapon)

Sharpshooter
Tier 3: M14 EBR - Swap the lasersight with the SCAR's battle scope, making the M14 more sniperish and less assaultish.

Thoughts?

Why the MP10/5 for the medic?

Just because its the same series of guns doesnt make it good for the perk. Im just confused on how that would in any way be a medic gun. I mean, its a light machine gun with a flashlight.

And what does the rest have to do with your proposed changes to the m14?

Im not flaming, just confused at how this is relevant?

Also, Valecrius, do you mean tranquilizers basically? What do you mean exactly?

 

[Vaecrius]

no no no no no no no no please don't pollute yet another thread with m14/scar talk

Otherwise I second what timur said, unless the MP5's full auto shoots healing darts.


EDIT: Or...

...the flashlight contains a holy relic instead of a bulb or LED, and emits healing light that salves the very basic human essence of those whom it touches.

dude this is a buggin' awesome idea

 

[timur]

no no no no no no no no please don't pollute yet another thread with m14/scar talk

Otherwise I second what timur said, unless the MP5's full auto shoots healing darts.

Thank you Vaecrius; I am really getting sick of this random topic on this thread. I mean, if its such a hot topic, shouldnt it have its own thread?


And I was not thinking an automatic dart gun. In fact, I was thinking a slower fire gun with multiple kinds of darts (or just one). An automatic dart gun would be rather stupid.

And as for the MP5....the full auto MP5 really is just a light machinegun suggested for the medic perk, but it has no healing or even boosting qualities. Just a flashlight. Which makes it a tad out of place. I was just addressing it as it was asuggestion made, but shot down(by me)

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

just got done playing a few maps as a medic using a combo of mp7/bullpup/katana and it was quite uplifting to see the potential in the bullpup being a medic's weapon. the base stats of the weapon (since no commando bonuses when playing as medic) worked quite well alongside the mp7. the recoil wasn't noticeable, the damage seemed balanced and the quicker reload was nicer than the slow reload of the mp7. also nice to have a larger mag with a lower rate of fire so it seems like you aren't running out of ammo so fast. although the mp7's ability to heashot seemed to be a little better than the bullpup.

if any "new" smg or assualt rifle gets added to the game, it should be the SA80/L85A1 to become the commando tier1 and the bullpup can go to the medic as it works perfectly with that perk.

 

[timur]

just got done playing a few maps as a medic using a combo of mp7/bullpup/katana and it was quite uplifting to see the potential in the bullpup being a medic's weapon. the base stats of the weapon (since no commando bonuses when playing as medic) worked quite well alongside the mp7. the recoil wasn't noticeable, the damage seemed balanced and the quicker reload was nicer than the slow reload of the mp7. also nice to have a larger mag with a lower rate of fire so it seems like you aren't running out of ammo so fast. although the mp7's ability to heashot seemed to be a little better than the bullpup.

if any "new" smg or assualt rifle gets added to the game, it should be the SA80/L85A1 to become the commando tier1 and the bullpup can go to the medic as it works perfectly with that perk.

So the bullpup, in theory, would be tier 3? Or tier 2? Or tier 1? And would the Mp7 be put down a tier?(it never really was powerful enough to be a real tier3 anyways)

Still delaying until TWI itself locks this thread....hehehe

 

[CandleJack]

if any "new" smg or assualt rifle gets added to the game, it should be the SA80/L85A1 to become the commando tier1 and the bullpup can go to the medic as it works perfectly with that perk.

Oh god no. Not the L85A1. The L85A2 would be way better.

If TWI implemented the A1, the selector switch would fall off, leaving you stuck in whatever fire mode you're in, if you pull out another weapon, the loaded magazine would fall out, there'd be a chance that the gun would jam, the list goes on.

What people seem not to grasp is that the A2 version is almost exactly the same as the A1, it is not a carbine or shorter gun! It is just a much improved upgraded version of it, to iron out the flaws of the L85A1.

The L22 ingame now is most likely a carbine version of the L85A2.

Do people just ignore me when i try to set the facts straight or are they all trolling?

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Do people just ignore me when i try to set the facts straight or are they all trolling?

or just overlook/fail to notice those presented facts i noticed you and a couple others posting about the differences, but will admit i really didn't read all of it

so L85A2 it is?

as for the tiers of the mp7 and bullpup, let's look at the stats: base prices for the weapons - mp7 is 3000, bullpup is 400. firepower wise, the mp7 is better than the bullpup in all categories except for reload speed. so i'd say the bullpup as tier1 and mp7 as tier2 (since technically mp7 is currently the tier1 weapon.....syringe isn't exactly a weapon but inventory). now if the propsed tranqualizer dart gun was added, depending on the "damage" it'd inflict, that could be either tier1 or tier2 with the bullpup as the other and then the mp7 as a tier3.

 

[CandleJack]

or just overlook/fail to notice those presented facts i noticed you and a couple others posting about the differences, but will admit i really didn't read all of it

so L85A2 it is?

as for the tiers of the mp7 and bullpup, let's look at the stats: base prices for the weapons - mp7 is 3000, bullpup is 400. firepower wise, the mp7 is better than the bullpup in all categories except for reload speed. so i'd say the bullpup as tier1 and mp7 as tier2 (since technically mp7 is currently the tier1 weapon.....syringe isn't exactly a weapon but inventory). now if the propsed tranqualizer dart gun was added, depending on the "damage" it'd inflict, that could be either tier1 or tier2 with the bullpup as the other and then the mp7 as a tier3.

The L85A2 it is.

Look at it this way, would you rather have a gun with all the flaws and failings i described, or a almost exact copy that worked better?

People probably think the difference between A1 and A2 is similar to the M16.
It's not. Not only were the L85A1 and A2 made by 2 different companies (A1 - Enfield, A2 H&K) but the L22 is a carbine version.
The 3 main versions are: L85A1, L85A2 (converted A1s to work better) and L22.

Also the name of the gun isn't SA80, that's the name of the family of guns, i guess like AK is.

But more on the medic gun suggestion:

I'd have the Dart gun as either a bolt action tranquliser type gun that they use for hunting large game or that plastic nerf-looking one i saw that Russian PM use.

 

[timur]

The L85A2 it is.

Look at it this way, would you rather have a gun with all the flaws and failings i described, or a almost exact copy that worked better?

People probably think the difference between A1 and A2 is similar to the M16.
It's not. Not only were the L85A1 and A2 made by 2 different companies (A1 - Enfield, A2 H&K) but the L22 is a carbine version.
The 3 main versions are: L85A1, L85A2 (converted A1s to work better) and L22.

Also the name of the gun isn't SA80, that's the name of the family of guns, i guess like AK is.

But more on the medic gun suggestion:

I'd have the Dart gun as either a bolt action tranquliser type gun that they use for hunting large game or that plastic nerf-looking one i saw that Russian PM use.

A bolt action one sounds cool

But what is the Russian PM gun? is it the one already thats pic is already posted, or a different one? If its a different one, please post a pic of it

 

[CandleJack]

A bolt action one sounds cool

But what is the Russian PM gun? is it the one already thats pic is already posted, or a different one? If its a different one, please post a pic of it

This one:

Or something like this:

Maybe not with a limited gas supply, or then again maybe that would make it interesting to use.