A perspective on latency and hit detection.

[Krilnik]

This engine failed at Americas Army 3.
For exactly the same problem, which seems to be unsolvable.
At least not easily.
The worst net code ever.

 

[G_Sajer]

I don't know a thing about the hit detection algorithm used in RO or RO2 beyond what has been stated here. But here is what makes me skeptical that hit detection is an exclusive or chronic problem.

I have played RO since 2006, and now RO2. There are far too many people regularly playing this game that are NOT suffering chronic hit detection issues. Myself among them. I have experienced far more simultaneous kills in game than I have ever experienced clean shots which did not kill the opponent. I continue to assert that there is far more involved than just a lack of accuracy on the part of hit detection if folks are dealing with this phenom day in and day out.

Not a night goes by on a server that there isn't at least one of my clan mates or anothe player in the team channel bellowing about some guy constantly killing him, and even though he is a crack shot, he cannot seem to hit this opponent to save his life. Well, gee folks, the algorithm seems to be working for this other fella, ain't it? So the question then becomes: What is the source of the different experience between one experienced player vs another? They are both using the same hit algorithm aren't they? With all the variations involved on client-server instruction transmission I've mentioned, where do YOU think this variation might be occuring?

 

[Machete234]

Great post but the copper wire in front of my house inst rusty and my ping is fine and the hit detection issues occur on all servers.

 

[G_Sajer]

[QUOTE the hit detection issues occur on all servers. [/QUOTE]


I have no doubt that they do. But I'll keep saying this until the logic sinks in: It is NOT being experienced by all players of the game. If you accept that premise, than I'll let you decide what might be the distinguishing difference.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

[QUOTE the hit detection issues occur on all servers.

I have no doubt that they do. But I'll keep saying this until the logic sinks in: It is NOT being experienced by all players of the game. If you accept that premise, than I'll let you decide what might be the distinguishing difference.[/QUOTE]

Real nice, so you're saying that people can easily hit an enemy from 200m, but suddenly become retarded and can't hit an AFK player from 5 feet away after emptying a G41 clip at him?

 

[tixhal]

why are so people complaining about this, yet no one posts a video of it happening? (feel free to post one! i'd like to see it) while moving, i miss a target 5m away on several occasions, either because i shoot the semi too fast (decals go crazy around the target, because the notch and bead of the gun are misaligned) or spray too hard with an smg.
when i'm stationary and shoot small bursts of 2-3 rounds this never happens.
today on apartments a russian was rushing towards me, pulling the trigger of his svt like a madman, when he ran out of bullets i stabbed him. i was hit in the hand and leg, the rest of his bullets were misses, because he fired too fast and was moving forward.
i have yet to encounter the problem of unregistered shots... i have 150h playtime and it never happened to me.
my best guess would be packet loss or lagspikes (which go crazy on most >50 player servers.)

 

[G_Sajer]

[/QUOTE]

Real nice, so you're saying that people can easily hit an enemy from 200m, but suddenly become retarded and can't hit an AFK player from 5 feet away after emptying a G41 clip at him? [/QUOTE]

I don't recall saying those words at all. What I am saying is that while this may well be occurring on all servers, it is NOT occurring with all people.
If you accept that premise, then it follows that if the problem is not universal, then there is another factor involved. It seems highly likely that differentiating factor is latency in some form. THAT is what I am saying.
Write it down if you wish.

 

[tixhal]

i just remembered this, so i dug it out:

i have pretty slow internets, so i could see it in slow motion while the page was still loading. nothing wrong there.
found here

 

[Stahlhelmii]

why are so people complaining about this, yet no one posts a video of it happening? (feel free to post one! i'd like to see it) while moving, i miss a target 5m away on several occasions, either because i shoot the semi too fast (decals go crazy around the target, because the notch and bead of the gun are misaligned) or spray too hard with an smg.
when i'm stationary and shoot small bursts of 2-3 rounds this never happens.
today on apartments a russian was rushing towards me, pulling the trigger of his svt like a madman, when he ran out of bullets i stabbed him. i was hit in the hand and leg, the rest of his bullets were misses, because he fired too fast and was moving forward.
i have yet to encounter the problem of unregistered shots... i have 150h playtime and it never happened to me.
my best guess would be packet loss or lagspikes (which go crazy on most >50 player servers.)

Do a search, there are threads with several videos of it.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

Real nice, so you're saying that people can easily hit an enemy from 200m, but suddenly become retarded and can't hit an AFK player from 5 feet away after emptying a G41 clip at him? [/QUOTE]

I don't recall saying those words at all. What I am saying is that while this may well be occurring on all servers, it is NOT occurring with all people.
If you accept that premise, then it follows that if the problem is not universal, then there is another factor involved. It seems highly likely that differentiating factor is latency in some form. THAT is what I am saying.
Write it down if you wish. [/QUOTE]

TBH, I don't care WHAT the "cause" is. It's happening to a lot of us, and there is no common denominator -- even latency -- that seems to trigger or identify it. All we know is that it is a problem with RO2 -- period -- and it needs to be fixed. Hey, I don't begrudge you that you don't have it, but I'm really getting tired of people who don't suffer from it saying it doesn't exist, it's "latency" (it isn't), you can't shoot, etc. Look at the vids, look at the numerous threads with hundreds of posts. It exists. It doesn't effect everyone. TWI has acknowledged the problem but state that they can't replicate it for correction. It's bad enough that many have quit the game because of it and gone on to hacker-infested BF3, so that ought to tell you just how bad it is.

 

[tixhal]

i downloaded Red Orchestra 2 hit detection problem - YouTube and watched it at 0,06x on vlc. that is one really unlucky guy! theres several near misses, some arm and leg hits. for some reason there is no muzzle flash during several shots. and when he starts to reload, it's a single cartridge, not a clip.
people having this issue should use some sort of network monitoring tool to check if they are losing lots of packets.

 

[Mekhazzio]

Red Orchestra 2 hit detection problem - YouTube

This is a perfect example. Those shots aren't missing because of hit detection, those shots are missing because of the networking model. You have to lead the target by your latency, and that person is not. Shots that look like easy hits at the side of the torso or arm turn into complete misses, even on a target moving as slowly as that ironsighted sidestep. The shooter needed to be aiming just in front of the person to hit them.

The hit detection is not the source of the problem, it's the complete lack of any sort of latency compensation.

 

[Adenru]

How many bodies do you shoot ahead? I'm playing with ping of 80-100 and I shoot walking target 1 body ahead and running two bodies ahead and sometimes hit happens.
I also experience 0.5 sec lag when between my shot and death of camping target in front of me. Annoying.

 

[Machete234]

I also experience 0.5 sec lag when between my shot and death of camping target in front of me. Annoying.

In close range you need to pump him full of lead so he cant shoot back.
Thats no lag its just that one bullet doesnt kill you instantly.

 

[Adenru]

Thats no lag its just that one bullet doesnt kill you instantly.

Yeah, and the hit sound also does not reach me instantly, everything is fine according to physics, isn't it?

 

[CandleJack]

It's either me, or the gun/game, but something's wrong with me using the MkB.

I can shoot the Ivans at range, and in CQC, and the shots don't register, and/or the Ivans just walk it off. Damnit, i want to just shoot Ivans and then have them die.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

In close range you need to pump him full of lead so he cant shoot back.
Thats no lag its just that one bullet doesnt kill you instantly.

They don't even REGISTER as a hit.

 

[Machete234]

It seems I dont have this problem then.
Because very often I can take an enemy down with me when made me die slowly.

I thought thats what you mean because to you it might look like im still alive, but really there was just the respawn screen in front of the death message.

 

[Calumhm]

In response to many of the people here complaining with absolute certainty that it's hit detection and not internet issues:

It could still be jitter and variable internet quality, or even a near-overloaded server jitttering for just a moment.

I too have encountered a few times in close combat where I feel like my opponent was bulletproof, but it's rare now. Some kind of well-designed lag-compensation could benefit RO2, but certainly not like that of Source engine for instance. That would have you all coming here raging about being shot behind cover 24/7

 

[G_Sajer]

Logic can be toxic... fer some. Let's try a cerebral experiment, kid's.

Let's say we're on on a popular 64 man server about 7pm. The usual mayhem and collective howling about hit detection is in full swing. And others are dropping opponents like flys. Now... The players are all scooped up and given all expense paid free tickets to a city where the following evening they are seated in a small auditorium with 64 identical host computers --and the same server platform. Each box is connected to hubs and to the server via cat 5 cable painfully measured for length equallity. A bonefied copy of RO2 is equipped in each. Play commences promptly at 7pm.

Who will be the first to begin experiencing the hit detection problems they shrieked about the night before? ...and how many others will victimize them with flawless shooting during the game? Will it be random? Will it happen at all? Will the same ones suffer and the same ones excel?
What will be blamed? Contemplate...

Did I just hear a head explode? Musta been a sniper.