A Discussion on the State of the Squad System

[Luckless]

What I think hasn't been mentioned here, and IMHO is a big problem for the squad system to actually work, is that a lot of people choose the squad leader role just for the smg if the assault roles are full. They don't give out any orders, rarely use smoke and often don't even react when your near them and asking for smoke. Because they forgot they actually have it, thinking they are just another assault class, I don't know.

I Think giving them bolt action rifles would make the class far less appealing to a lot of people. Maybe then people who choose the role might actually do their task and command their squad, be available for spawn atleast some of the time, mark artillery targets for the commander etc. Offcourse I also would want them to have a realistic loadout. As in what they would have had in stalingrad. But I think some people can agree this would get some bad seeds out of what could well be a verry important role.

That is really more of an issue for server admins and not the game itself. If people insist on being idiots with key roles, then kick them and let players who know/want to learn what they're doing.

I think the best way to 'fix' the squads is to simply switch the default selection view to the squad list, and maybe slow down how quickly new squads unlock.

 

[Kipper]

I'm glad that this thread has spurred so much discussion. I hope Tripwire is paying attention. Venkman makes some good points. America's Army actually had many good features that RO should learn from. One of the features I've been saying that RO should have since Ostfront is the "request class" feature that AA has. This should reduce the number of complaints that people have with slow computer not being able to choose the classes they want before the map loads.

 

[Derpus]

If we can get squads to stick together

 

[Remington]

Good discussion so far. There are indeed things that could need some tweaking (the F4/F5 issue, or locations ordered to being marked on the overhead map / tactical view).

I do like the SL role as is. As squadleader you shouldn't rambo into the objective. Stay back a bit, let the squad regroup/respawn on you and attack together. The spawn on SL function is handy if you play that way.
If you could always spawn on anybody, you'd open up new issues. Spawning in front of enemies and getting shot straight away for example. I don't know how many times that happened to me in BC2. I stopped spawning on people (except it was clanmates telling me it's safe) because this was such a huge problem for me.
It would also be unfair to the defenders, if a whole squad would simply respawn on the last guy in the objective.

The problem I often see is a lack of communication. There is a squad voice channel. If people would start using that, there wouldn't be such a big issue with people not playing as a squad. I agree that coloured messages could improve the system. But still I'd prefer communication via IP. The problem also luys within the players. We need to start educating the people how to play their roles, otherwise you could add as much functionality as you'd want. If people don't care or don't know about, they still won't give a damn.

I'd further prefer to not have my screen full with icons. I like it clean and simple. The tactical view is for this kind of stuff. Just don't overdo it. Btw... you can set your server up, so that it only shows you names on your squadmembers, not the rest of your team. That option is already available. You just need to set it up.

The AA system is indeed not bad. But it also took them a while before it was working properly iirc. If we point the devs towards good ideas they might look into things. However, I don't think that posting things like "damn twi, learn something" will help getting our points across (no intent to step on your toes, mate). The AA guys had to learn a lot of things the hard way too.

Oh and last but not least... it would be great, if you had to get a squad full before the next squad would be opened. This has been suggested by others a lot already. I think this could help preventing people going for weapons rather than roles.


Greetings,
Remington

 

[nuNce]

Btw... you can set your server up, so that it only shows you names on your squadmembers, not the rest of your team. That option is already available. You just need to set it up.

Could you tell me where this option is?

 

[Remington]

In the ROGame.ini under the section [ROGame.ROGameInfo].
There you'll find:

bDisableTeamMemberIcons=True
bDisableSquadMemberIcons=True
bDisableSquadLeaderIcons=True

I've played around with these on my custom server. I did a quick test on the server with a couple of bots. It seemed to work. But I'll have another closer look at this later.

 

[nuNce]

In the ROGame.ini under the section [ROGame.ROGameInfo].
There you'll find:

bDisableTeamMemberIcons=True
bDisableSquadMemberIcons=True
bDisableSquadLeaderIcons=True

I've played around with these on my custom server. I did a quick test on the server with a couple of bots. It seemed to work. But I'll have another closer look at this later.

Will they be always visible or there is a range you can set (for realism's sake)

 

[Gudenrath]

One of the features I've been saying that RO should have since Ostfront is the "request class" feature that AA has. This should reduce the number of complaints that people have with slow computer not being able to choose the classes they want before the map loads.

Could you elaborate on what the "request class" feature is?

 

[Remington]

Will they be always visible or there is a range you can set (for realism's sake)

Can't tell right now. I'll check it out though.

Could you elaborate on what the "request class" feature is?

IIRC you could walk to such an ammo box, press the interact button and request a medic kit for example. A backpack appeared in front of you and you could switch to the requested kit.
I don't know though, if there were any limitations like a certain amount of kits or if the kit had to be approved my the commander.

 

[Remington]

I don't know what's wrong now, but I can't disable the names anymore. Either I was completely brainfarted this morning not noticing it or I have broken it.

 

[nuNce]

Nevermind! Thanks a lot for trying out.

 

[Lonestarranger]

Only your Squad

Only your Squad

Yes, i played a server last night and was amazed that only members of my squad had labels and stated what fire team they were.

I also noticed as squad leader that when i pulled up the tactical view, all the positions i designated for my three fire teams (Assault, Rifle, and LMG) all showed up.

I never could confirm from my squad members because they were engaged in the game, whether they saw their squad fire team position on their tactical view. If they can, the problem solved and it would seem that this is a server issue and need to educate all servers to fix the settings in this way.

 

[Kipper]

Could you elaborate on what the "request class" feature is?

Basically, when you joined a server, or the round just began, you could put in a request to be an already filled class. For example, if you joined and someone had already selected the machine gunner role, you could press the button to request to be that class and then choose another. As soon as the class was vacant, it would assign it to you automatically so you'd spawn as that class next time.

 

[MtnMan01]

- With a new map change, highest honor (AAs honor system works the same way RO2's does) gets first pick of role selection
- You can't choose to be a second squad leader if there aren't enough people in the server at the time of map selection (For instance, in RO2 we have 1 SL for every 16 players. Currently there can be multiple SLs without even enough people to form full squads).
- Similarly, you can't be an additional role in another squad (SL, Machinegunner, what-have-you) until there are enough players to form another squad
- Role selection priority is based on previous round performance
- You spawn on the map (In AA it is just once like Countdown) with your Squad Leader
- Teammates are clearly marked on the scoreboard as well as onscreen what squad they are in
- There are squad commands that only appear to members in your squad

RO2 has the option of making this system work very well. Combing the above features with objective bonuses for completing squad leader orders, it could be a lot of fun and realistic. I hope TWI considers it.

I don't like weapon unlocks either. I'd rather have weapon customization centered around looks and maybe some performance (Choosing a C96 instead of a P38, or maybe a PPD40 instead of a PPSH) than weapon leveling.

^^Agree ,
Interesting Thread with some great Ideas.