A couple things about the tanks

[Major_Day]

So, what if you get killed in the tank but it doesn't get destroyed. Somehow I doubt you'd be waiting/spectating for god knows how long being all like "cmon, cmon, die already!".

I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that if one of the crew members died in the tank, he would respawn back in the same tank, back on the battlefield, if the tank was still alive that is.
Their would just be a dead body, or an empty space in the tank, til that person respawned.

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

As it stands currently (and still subject to change/tweaking in testing/beta):

If you are solo-tanking and the body in the position you are sitting in gets splattered, you hot-switch to a live AI position in the same tank. We're finessing the dead loader part - no-one really wants to have to play that position.

If you are team-tanking, you can hot-switch to a live AI body in the same tank if there is one. If there isn't you either wait for the tank to get taken out and respawn with the whole crew OR wait for the tank to pull back off the line to a resupply point, where you can rejoin the crew (respawning int he tank) OR chose to join another crew about to respawn OR switch roles completely.

Right now, we've certainly had fights where 3 of the crew are dead and you are cold-swapping to dead men's positions to still fight the tank. We're debating the point when you'd want to give up on the tank, give the enemy the kill and respawn in something more usable!

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

As it stands currently (and still subject to change/tweaking in testing/beta):

If you are solo-tanking and the body in the position you are sitting in gets splattered, you hot-switch to a live AI position in the same tank. We're finessing the dead loader part - no-one really wants to have to play that position.

If you are team-tanking, you can hot-switch to a live AI body in the same tank if there is one. If there isn't you either wait for the tank to get taken out and respawn with the whole crew OR wait for the tank to pull back off the line to a resupply point, where you can rejoin the crew (respawning int he tank) OR chose to join another crew about to respawn OR switch roles completely.

Right now, we've certainly had fights where 3 of the crew are dead and you are cold-swapping to dead men's positions to still fight the tank. We're debating the point when you'd want to give up on the tank, give the enemy the kill and respawn in something more usable!

For the loader part i think that this is a possible solution:

-You are the only crewman survived into the tank.
-You switch to gunner position.
-Aim and....fire!
-Now the gun is empty and needs reload.
-If you reload (i dunno if its "R" or "Right-mouse clic" or automatic -i hope not- or so....i never tried the game ) you will automatically switch to the loader position, then your PG will automatically reload (and you will see the animation of yourself reloading) and then switch back to gunner position (or maybe during the reload you will see a menu that allow you to choose in which position your PG will move after finished reloading).

Practically auto-switch to loader and auto loading. When you reload a rifle you simply press "R" and then the animation is automatic. Why not for tanks?

 

[UsF]

We're finessing the dead loader part - no-one really wants to have to play that position.

I said in another thread that it should be possible for players to switch to the loader part. I mean it might not be fun being the loader, but it certainly should not be bad having to switch back and forth to the loader seat. Imagine the following examples:

1. your loader is taken out in an otherwise fully functional tank. The tank gunner now has to reload his own shells, costing him some time in tank combat. Or the tank commander plugs shells for the gunner. Or the tank is stationary and the driver moves to the loader slot, although I would imagine that this path might be really really narrow for the driver to maneuver in (getting from and to the driver seat). I might be wrong. In either situation, no person would be bored and the reloading of the shell would add to the suspension, while presenting the busy internal graphics of a tank, with people shouting orders etc.
2. You are the tank commander and remain in your tank alone. Other people that have tanked with you are dead and are now either waiting in the respawn menu or have selected an infantry class for the time. Being alone in the tank, you do not have time to be bored and the time reloading is just necessary and a small interval before you get back to the gunner seat and fire off a now precious round.
3. You are a normal crewman remaining in the tank, while the commander has already spawned in another tank. The same as above applies and once you die or give up, you an instantly spawn in the new commander tank of your friend.

On either end, I would like to add something regarding the issue of abandoning a tank. Upon abandoning, I think the crewmen should climb out of the tank and run towards the resupply point. This could either be done by an AI or a player could do this as to not loose precious manpower points in a battle. I think the AI part would be best, this way you would have the atmosphere of tank crew dispersing from a destroyed tank, while allowing the tank commander and crew to come back to the battle in a new tank sooner rather than later.

 

[Nezzer]

For the loader part i think that this is a possible solution:

-You are the only crewman survived into the tank.
-You switch to gunner position.
-Aim and....fire!
-Now the gun is empty and needs reload.
-If you reload (i dunno if its "R" or "Right-mouse clic" or automatic -i hope not- or so....i never tried the game ) you will automatically switch to the loader position, then your PG will automatically reload (and you will see the animation of yourself reloading) and then switch back to gunner position (or maybe during the reload you will see a menu that allow you to choose in which position your PG will move after finished reloading).

Practically auto-switch to loader and auto loading. When you reload a rifle you simply press "R" and then the animation is automatic. Why not for tanks?

Perfect!

 

[Placebo Cyanide]

Thank you Wilsonam for the info.

Excellent suggestion RiccardoTheBeAst.

I'll add my own thoughts. Thus far the Loader is not a slot that one can choose to play in the tank. The reasoning seems to be that it would be no fun for the person who got stuck in that position. Given some of the posts in the past, there are a few people who would at least like the option. In the original RO there was a client-side option to choose to manually reload tank shells. Could we not have a similar option for choosing to want to play the Tank Loader? This way it would not force everyone to play russian roulette and hope they don't get it, they can simply opt out. The practical benefits of playing as the loader could be:

1) the ability to "cold-swap" to another position whenever some of your friendly tank crewmen die. One scenario I can think of that this would be beneficial (though maybe not likely) would be this: only Hull MG and Loader alive, Combat engineers are rushing the tank or hiding just out of range behind cover and the MG cannot hit them, but must continue to suppress with fire or risk being blown up. The Player-Loader could then switch to either driver and move further out of range or to the gunner slot and HE them.

2) A Good way for patient newbies to learn the ropes of the tanks and the teamwork that will no doubt be necessary for tanks to operate effeciently while still being a critical part of the team. (kind of a stretch i know, but hey, still valid no?)

3) Maybe, TWI could consider giving a Player-Loader some sort of Benefit over an AI-Loader as an incentive for patient diehard teamwork players to contribute in some way. First thing that comes to mind is slightly faster reload times for Player-Loaders.

 

[hockeywarrior]

As it stands currently (and still subject to change/tweaking in testing/beta):

If you are solo-tanking and the body in the position you are sitting in gets splattered, you hot-switch to a live AI position in the same tank. We're finessing the dead loader part - no-one really wants to have to play that position.

If you are team-tanking, you can hot-switch to a live AI body in the same tank if there is one. If there isn't you either wait for the tank to get taken out and respawn with the whole crew OR wait for the tank to pull back off the line to a resupply point, where you can rejoin the crew (respawning int he tank) OR chose to join another crew about to respawn OR switch roles completely.

Right now, we've certainly had fights where 3 of the crew are dead and you are cold-swapping to dead men's positions to still fight the tank. We're debating the point when you'd want to give up on the tank, give the enemy the kill and respawn in something more usable!

This sounds epic, but the loader clearly is a problem. Riccardo's suggestion is good but complex. I guess there is no simple answer to a problem like this no matter what ...

 

[Nacho]

People said the same thing about driving in ROOST. Enterprising geeks like us will find fun in all sorts of thankless tasks.

This is way out of scope this late in the game, but it might be fun to turn loading into a little minigame inside the tank with the reward being faster reload times. Good loaders would be the STG of the tanking world.

One idea would be to have a series of time sensitive tasks that the loader has to perform with the mouse/keyboard that if you screw up will slow down the process. Trying to concentrate on minutia in the midst of loud rumbling and clanging and yelling in a cramped environment would be a fun challenge.

"Ok now turn around and grab the next HE round and start gently sliding it out of the rack while this metal coffin is bouncing around. Uh on, forgot to open the breech and toss out the spent cartridge. Turn back around and... OMG Panzer LOAD AT NOW!!!"

 

[Dwin]

This sounds epic, but the loader clearly is a problem. Riccardo's suggestion is good but complex. I guess there is no simple answer to a problem like this no matter what ...

Riccardo's suggestion is definitely the best way to do it.
How is it complex? As he said, it's no different from reloading any other weapon. You fire your gun (and if you have manual reload selected, otherwise it happens straight away) select the next round, press reload, an first person animation of you getting into the loader's seat, loading a round, and returning to the gunner's seat plays.

 

[Cordite]

People said the same thing about driving in ROOST. Enterprising geeks like us will find fun in all sorts of thankless tasks.

This is way out of scope this late in the game, but it might be fun to turn loading into a little minigame inside the tank with the reward being faster reload times. Good loaders would be the STG of the tanking world.

One idea would be to have a series of time sensitive tasks that the loader has to perform with the mouse/keyboard that if you screw up will slow down the process. Trying to concentrate on minutia in the midst of loud rumbling and clanging and yelling in a cramped environment would be a fun challenge.

"Ok now turn around and grab the next HE round and start gently sliding it out of the rack while this metal coffin is bouncing around. Uh on, forgot to open the breech and toss out the spent cartridge. Turn back around and... OMG Panzer LOAD AT NOW!!!"

I agree w/ this. If the loader position is something that has to be done in order to get rounds in and out I think making it as interactive as possible would reduce the amount of tedium that would come w/ switching to the loader position, pressing the reload button and watching the animation before switching back again.

 

[Felix Ostheim]

I've been thinking about it for a while now and after reading some of the comments here I'm inclined to say that allowing the loader role to be played would be interesting, mostly on full tank maps. It's a very minor thing though.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was said that if the loader is lost then reloading will simply be slower? If this is the case I assume gunner and loader roles would merge and the gunner would have to reach over to grab shells himself etc? Also like someone has mentioned it would be nice if say the loader is killed but the MG gunner survives he could take over the loader slot to speed things up if armor threats are the priority. This would add to the teamplay/decision making element of tanking. If I were in a tank and the commander shouts for me to take over loading, I would take one for the team.

 

[Pvt.Skoko]

I'm not sure about pub play, but for clan matches it would be nice to have the choice to have a human loader play, even if he is only pressing a button. This would be beneficial because it increases the immersion in the tanking experience, and if someone gets killed you have a reasonable/realistic amount of people to take his place. The reloader should be AI until he dies, then you should be allowed to move to his position.

 

[Dwin]

I'm not sure about pub play, but for clan matches it would be nice to have the choice to have a human loader play, even if he is only pressing a button. This would be beneficial because it increases the immersion in the tanking experience, and if someone gets killed you have a reasonable/realistic amount of people to take his place. The reloader should be AI until he dies, then you should be allowed to move to his position.

A human loader also provides another set of eyes for the tank. Both the PIV and the T-34 have view ports facing to the right of the tank next to the loader's seat, and I believe the loader could also unbutton out of the same hatch as the gunner/commander on the T-34.

 

[eugen reinhard]

One of my biggest disappointment is the fact you can't get out of the tank ... just disappointing ... I mean all the points that were made in favor of this just don't make any sense.

 

[SheepDip]

I mean all the points that were made in favor of this just don't make any sense.

Pretty sure if you played tanking maps on ROOST then all the points put forward in favour should make perfect sense.

 

[Placebo Cyanide]

One of my biggest disappointment is the fact you can't get out of the tank ... just disappointing ... I mean all the points that were made in favor of this just don't make any sense.

Here's an example: a PTRD user is directly next to a tank, they take a shot and click again to reload. The tank crewmen have the ability to get out of the tank and kill the Anti-Tanker with their SMG/Pistol faster than it takes to reload the PTRD.

 

[RedGuardist]

A human loader also provides another set of eyes for the tank. Both the PIV and the T-34 have view ports facing to the right of the tank next to the loader's seat, and I believe the loader could also unbutton out of the same hatch as the gunner/commander on the T-34.

You are correct on behalf of T-34/85 as T-34/76 did not have loader. And in T-34/85 there was no seat for the loader, so he had to sort of stand in very awkward position. Very uncomfortable, I

 

[Colt .45 killer]

As it stands currently (and still subject to change/tweaking in testing/beta):

If you are solo-tanking and the body in the position you are sitting in gets splattered, you hot-switch to a live AI position in the same tank. We're finessing the dead loader part - no-one really wants to have to play that position.
...

Not to be a negative nitpick na-bob. But I actually want the loader to be a usable position. Sure most people in average games will leave the loader position unused. But in large maps ( ALA old OREL ) with a full compliment of people in the tank all working together, a loader would be a critical part of that crew. IMO human loader should be able to load faster then AI crewman, and also be able to choose which shells you have on the ready racks ( if your tank happend to have ready racks ), and lastly be able to have a round in your arms for a quick reload. The loader would also have to queue up rounds from the storage bins to the ready racks.

Then you could simply force people to switch to the loader postion if their loader died.

edit: Dident realise there was already such support for tank loaders, think I'll expand on what I wanted for tank loaders.

While tempted to suggest that the loader have a bunch of buttons that he pushes to relpenish the ready racks and load the gun this would add little immersion. I'd like to see the loader have to look at something and click to initiate an animation. IE to load the gun, look at the ready rack and the shell you want to load, click button, watch animation of grabbing shell and holding in arms, now turn to gun and click again, watch animation of shell getting loaded and chamber being closed. If your tank was in a low area in a flank behind enemy tanks and your commander told you to get AP rounds ready, when you had a HE round loaded. The loader would then look at the tank gun, click button, watch video of unloading the tank round, look down at the storage bin, click button to open bin, and click again to put the round in one of the bins. Grab an AP round from the bin and load the gun, then proceed to fill the ready racks with as many AP rounds as needed, and close the bin.

 

[Mormegil]

You are correct on behalf of T-34/85 as T-34/76 did not have loader. And in T-34/85 there was no seat for the loader, so he had to sort of stand in very awkward position. Very uncomfortable, I

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

Thanks to all for the compliments. I'm pleased that you liked my idea.

Thank you Wilsonam for the info.

Excellent suggestion RiccardoTheBeAst.

I'll add my own thoughts. Thus far the Loader is not a slot that one can choose to play in the tank. The reasoning seems to be that it would be no fun for the person who got stuck in that position. Given some of the posts in the past, there are a few people who would at least like the option. In the original RO there was a client-side option to choose to manually reload tank shells. Could we not have a similar option for choosing to want to play the Tank Loader? This way it would not force everyone to play russian roulette and hope they don't get it, they can simply opt out. The practical benefits of playing as the loader could be:

1) the ability to "cold-swap" to another position whenever some of your friendly tank crewmen die. One scenario I can think of that this would be beneficial (though maybe not likely) would be this: only Hull MG and Loader alive, Combat engineers are rushing the tank or hiding just out of range behind cover and the MG cannot hit them, but must continue to suppress with fire or risk being blown up. The Player-Loader could then switch to either driver and move further out of range or to the gunner slot and HE them.

2) A Good way for patient newbies to learn the ropes of the tanks and the teamwork that will no doubt be necessary for tanks to operate effeciently while still being a critical part of the team. (kind of a stretch i know, but hey, still valid no?)

3) Maybe, TWI could consider giving a Player-Loader some sort of Benefit over an AI-Loader as an incentive for patient diehard teamwork players to contribute in some way. First thing that comes to mind is slightly faster reload times for Player-Loaders.

People said the same thing about driving in ROOST. Enterprising geeks like us will find fun in all sorts of thankless tasks.

This is way out of scope this late in the game, but it might be fun to turn loading into a little minigame inside the tank with the reward being faster reload times. Good loaders would be the STG of the tanking world.

One idea would be to have a series of time sensitive tasks that the loader has to perform with the mouse/keyboard that if you screw up will slow down the process. Trying to concentrate on minutia in the midst of loud rumbling and clanging and yelling in a cramped environment would be a fun challenge.

"Ok now turn around and grab the next HE round and start gently sliding it out of the rack while this metal coffin is bouncing around. Uh on, forgot to open the breech and toss out the spent cartridge. Turn back around and... OMG Panzer LOAD AT NOW!!!"

We discussed many times about loader part and many players declined the idea. So, even for me it's a great idea to have ALL roles playable, but the biggest problem is: how will work reloading?
The "minigame" term makes me think about something too arcade/stupid lol. All must be well thought, and creating loader part is difficult.

About tanks crew:

Pz IV: 1 Driver, 2 commander, 3 gunner, 4 loader, 5 machinegunner/radio operator
T-34/76: 1 Driver, 2 commander/gunner, 3 loader, 4 machinegunner/radio operator
T-34/85: 1 Driver, 2 commander, 3 gunner, 4 loader, 5 machinegunner/radio operator