A capping change in Kaukaus in roost?

[DieFledermaus]

I have not played the Kaukaus monastry map much since the retail version came out.

I just noticed last night that the Russians cannot recap the Tower Ruin once the TR, Back Route and Mortar Postion have all been capped.

Is that the way it is now? Or was that a customization on the server I was playing last night?

I agree that would make life easier for the Germans, on what was a very hard map for them. But it certainly changes the Russian responsibility in terms of holding the outter objectives. Unfortunately I seemed to be playing with a bunch of blind Campfire Girls last night and they were clueless as to the importance of the TR. And then we move to Odessa where, as Russians, they have a tea party in the street rather than taking the damn apartments ASAP.

 

[Oberst Freitag]

Dont you mean they get plastered off of vodka? Tea isnt very popular with the russians

 

[REZ]

Yeah, I wish the capping in Kauk was changed back to the way it was.... being able to recap the BR and Tower made for a more interesting match.

Also, can someone please mod out the flashing objectives on the map page... I dont know why this was added, but it makes the game too easy.

 

[Heinz]

the Kauk caps are perfect. un-recappable spawns cut down on the "attacking" minded defenders that charge out on 'I am rambo on the flanks" manuevers.

 

[Oleg]

Tea is VERY popular with the Russians....

But I agree with the original poster - people not knowing objectives can be frustrating. I don't know how many times I've seen people fight and die for objectives that, once lost, cannot be recaptured!

 

[worluk]

Yeah, I wish the capping in Kauk was changed back to the way it was.... being able to recap the BR and Tower made for a more interesting match.

Also, can someone please mod out the flashing objectives on the map page... I dont know why this was added, but it makes the game too easy.

couldnt agree more, the flashing objectives make flanking to objectives and sneaky capping impossible.

 

[Hyperion2010]

sneaky capping by 1 soldier is something that really used to piss me off. ATM I think that it is better because it forces the russians to actively defend their territories instead of sitting in ctyard and then sneak out an recap back route while the germans try to take ctyard. A cowardly tactic .

 

[REZ]

and thats really what removing the flashing map objective amounts to.. when on defense, I'm not going over there until I see it flash. If there were no flash, you have to assume that the objective is being taken at all times, and it needs constant defending.

 

[Hyperion2010]

I agree REZ but the only solution to no flashy thing is to have a 2.0 style cap system where you have to have at least 4 players in a zone to cap it (scaled by player number clearly). Personally I would prefer this system on certain maps and I hope that it can be done by the mapper. (I'm thinking that Odessa would be a whole lot more fun if there were NO cap zones and the german spawn points would simply move back once there were no more germans in a given "area" (and viseversa) until the russians pushed them all the way back into their final spawn area at which point the game would end (since the russians would spawn in the buildings by the tower approach and in the buildings on the squre above HQ). I intend to try to implement something like this when I get my hands on the editor.

 

[DieFledermaus]

Well the current capping now forces the Russians to cover the outter objectives and once they fall they are in an Alamo situation. But they have the high ground. Who knows? Perhaps the actual battle was fought that way.

I totally agree that be Back Route should not be recappable once it falls, like the Mortar position always was. I like it that the BR CAN be recapped so long as the Tower Ruin is still held.

But I think it would make more sense to have the Tower Ruin recappable always. This gives the Russians something to try and assault and it gives the Germans something they must defend rather than blinding throwing everyone at the Monastery.

 

[REZ]

I like it that the BR CAN be recapped so long as the Tower Ruin is still held.

But I think it would make more sense to have the Tower Ruin recappable always. This gives the Russians something to try and assault and it gives the Germans something they must defend rather than blinding throwing everyone at the Monastery.

Yeah, I like that as well, but then I would move the German spawn elsewhere (maybe shepards hut area) because it would be too easy to defend the Tower with the spawn right behind it. I remember having to sprint out of the back of the Axis Tower spawn all the way over to the BR just to defend it while the rest of my team was taking the Courtyard, dying and having to run all the way back before the Russians re-capped it. They rarely went for the Tower re-cap first because of the flood of Germans coming up from the spawn right there.

Those kind of nail biting situations, (that well thought out, well placed re-cappable objectives bring) add more depth to the maps because you have to focus on and manage multiple parts of the map, attacking AND defending, at the same time.

With the way it is, as you said, after you cap the three initial objectives, its simply wave after wave of Germans into the Courtyard, with nothing else to focus on but those three entrances. BUT, and heres the big but.... that may be the way the map creator intended it to be.. so, I dunno, personally I liked it the way it was in respect to the re-cappable objectives.

Which brings me to another point.. the 'How-many-enemies-are-in-the-capzone-with-you' bar... When this thing didnt exist you had to figure out yourself how many guys were in the capzone with you, which created a very tense, very exciting situation (why am I not capping? crap, must be enemies in here with me !). ...Now, depending on how the rest of the capzones look, if there are too many guys in the zone with me and they are capping it away from me, I might not go out and try to stop them knowing I'm hopelessly outnumbered.. that kinda takes away from the immersion for me. That little bar helps me make decisions, and because of that, we need a mod to remove it... at least for competition.


no flashing objectives on map, no enemies-in-capzone bar, no death messages would make for a great competition mod..
Whaddya think?

 

[BoltActionJackson]

no flashing objectives on map, no enemies-in-capzone bar, no death messages would make for a great competition mod..
Whaddya think?

I think it would make for a fantatsic competition mod. In fact I have been thinking the exact same thing for a couple of days. However, sometimes it amazes how oblivious people can be to the capzone bar. I can't count how many times I'm with teammates at an obj. ,like say Western Farmhouse on HH, and I VOIP there are enemies here;Then after we take them out they say "How did you know they were here?" Darwin award winners for sure!

 

[futurenhler]

and thats really what removing the flashing map objective amounts to.. when on defense, I'm not going over there until I see it flash. If there were no flash, you have to assume that the objective is being taken at all times, and it needs constant defending.

Which is realistic, IMO

 

[Kalashnikov Slamdunk]

Dont you mean they get plastered off of vodka? Tea isnt very popular with the russians

Yes it is!
we drink tea every morning and evenings. and i mean 90% of people heart tea.
of corse vodka will make its appreance throughout the day

 

[blitze]

I have to agree better to have less info on the map and cap bar than we currently have. Makes it a little less tense as it is too easy to realise you have company at cap sites.

Also, I find Kaukasus too hard for the Germans now. It is way to easy for the reds to pull back to the Court Yard and do their last stand defence method making it bloody hard for the Germans. Much more playable during the mod days when Reds could recap as half of them would run off and leave Court Yard for the Germans.

Also would like to return to the v2 Cap system based on team numbers where you required usually more that 1 person to take an objective. Promoted better teamwork and eliminated sneeky caps without being blatantly obvious about it.

 

[SasQuatch]

I have to agree better to have less info on the map and cap bar than we currently have. Makes it a little less tense as it is too easy to realise you have company at cap sites.

[snip]

Also would like to return to the v2 Cap system based on team numbers where you required usually more that 1 person to take an objective. Promoted better teamwork and eliminated sneeky caps without being blatantly obvious about it.

Lol. Contradictio in whatever you think you want.

New system: you can see that there's are enemies in the objective. You only see a relation ship between the number of friendlies and enemies.
Old 2.0 system: You can see exactly how many enemies were in the capzone, since you could tell by the number of men you needed.

The new icon system invokes counterattacks. I think that helps to promote tactical play above sneak play. And i rather have people fighting over objectives rather then no fights at all. Leaving that all to pure tactical spreading of your team's players is a dream you will only see once every now and then.

As far as the recap on Kaukasus. All objectives (apart from mortars) are recappable until the three first ones fall. In the past, the only thing I saw happening when those three fell, was a recap of the backroute by russians, and usually done by one or two guys. I would usually go and defend backroute on kaukasus after tower fell, and i was suprisingly alone there most of the time, in a void of russians or germans, so no big loss there. However, retaking BR would ussually give the russians an easy way out to win.

What would be interesting is to give the germans a way of getting on the walls from the outside.

 

[ButchCassidy]

Maybe a mobile siege tower the could trundle up and use to take the walls....lol

 

[Monkwarrior]

What would be interesting is to give the germans a way of getting on the walls from the outside.

Now w'r talking

 

[Rameusb5]

I find it a bit ironic that Kaukuses barely gets played now. I've been on it exactly once since ROOST came out. It seemed like it was played every other time in the Mod!

Personally, I found it annoying that the BR could be recapped when the Germans were spawning at the TR. Nothing like having to split your force in half to defend ground you've already taken while at the same time assaulting a fortress...

That being said, however, I think that the map in the Mod was in general balanced in favor of the Germans. About 90% of the time I played that map (in the Mod), the Germans won. The new changes make it even easier for them...

One thing I noticed about this map is that you almost NEVER run out of casualties. Perhaps they need to lower the spawnlists for both sides, so that the Germans actually have to worry about dying a lot more than they do now.

Then again, it seems like most players in this game are almost incapable of playing truly defensively. Perhaps the Russians are always loosing because most players run out of their defensive positions to assault the enemy. A LMG set up in the second floor of the church overlooking the courtyard would be able to cover most of the ground pretty well...

 

[MadMax]

I like the new Kaukasus map much better now. And I'm glad that we don't have that capping system from RO mod 3.0 anymore. I always hatet these sneaky one man capturing.