50 Player equipment

[Demonic Spoon]

Alright. On a 32 player server, you have 16 players per team. On an average infantry map, there are 11 unique positions (Mgs, assaults, squad lead, etc.) and 5 bolters. Less than there probably should be, but still not bad.

On a 50 player server, you have about 20 special positions, and 5 bolters, with a total of 25 players per team.


Basically, the 50 player servers screwed with the ratios, a lot. On a full 32 man server, each team will be about 1/3 bolt action, the rest are something different (usually).

On a full 50 man server, you have almost everyone with some type of special kit. You go from 1/3 the team being bolters to 1/5.

****, Stalingrad Kessel, for some weird-reason, has EIGHT assault positions and FIVE semi auto rifle positions on 50 player matchups. What the hell?


What are the devs' position on this? Is it going to change?

 

[LogisticEarth]

I think this is really a map designer's issue. Some maps like Zhitomer or Danzing have way too many autos when scaled. On the other hand, some maps have ZERO scaling for larger servers. I think the latter is ideal.

 

[Bennanteno]

I couldn't agree more with this post. I have nothing against SMGs and autorifles, but there was no need for the Devs to pump up the ratio this much. Theres no need for the number of smgs and autorifles to quadruple with only 5 more players per team.

 

[EvilHobo]

Well, this has been brought up several times before, but it seems that nothing is going to change.

 

[merder]

On maps like StalingradKessel or Zhitomir, I don't see the problem anyway, a large of SMGs and semiautos fits those maps just fine.

 

[Deeival]

This is why most of the 50 player servers are a horrible bullet spam fest.

 

[Sabu]

The official maps have unlimited rifleman slots so to say there are only 5 rifle slots is incorrect. You might experience rounds where there are only 5 people who choose the rifle role but that does not mean the rifle role has a limit. If we had not increased the number of semi and auto weapons a very large group of people would be stuck without a choice in weapons and be forced to use the rifle. You all have to remember not everyone likes the same weapons as you do. We felt it would not be a good thing to force players into a role they might not enjoy. (Don't get me wrong here I am not dissing the bolt.)

Sabu

 

[OneShot]

You all have to remember not everyone likes the same weapons as you do. We felt it would not be a good thing to force players into a role they might not enjoy. (Don't get me wrong here I am not dissing the bolt.)

Sabu

At least imho I agree and I thank you and all the Devs for that!

 

[Solo4114]

There is, of course, a solution or two: (1) make a mutator that messes with the ratios, or (2) I THINK server admins can configure the maps for different scalings. A 50 player server could, I THINK, run with a full 50 players, but only run the 32 player version of the map. Kind of like playing a BF2 32 player map with 64 players (or whatever).

Dunno if that's an option, though. It seems like it should be.

 

[EvilHobo]

The official maps have unlimited rifleman slots so to say there are only 5 rifle slots is incorrect.

It's very correct. Sure, an unlimited amount of players can pick rifleman, but everyone else will take the special classes, meaning the team will sport effectively 5 riflemen.

As I've tried to make it clear before, let's not forget what war this is.

 

[ron_moron]

Trouble is the bolt takes getting used to, it needs practice and skill to use it well. Give people too much option and they won't bother, they'll just go for the easy spray and forget, so the bolt falls out of favour and the game ends up less realistic and more like other FPS's.

On some maps you just don't want to bother anymore as they're just such an SMG fest, it's a real shame. Personally I don't see anything wrong with forcing people to play with a weapon they don't want. Go too far down that route and you'll have to have crosshairs, as some people will want those and it's not fair to make people play without them.

Don't want to have a go at the devs here as I love the game, but I think they've misjudged this one and it's changing the very nature of the game experience, and not for the better.

 

[LogisticEarth]

If we had not increased the number of semi and auto weapons a very large group of people would be stuck without a choice in weapons and be forced to use the rifle. You all have to remember not everyone likes the same weapons as you do. We felt it would not be a good thing to force players into a role they might not enjoy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole point of having class restrictions in the first place an effort to try to create some sort of a historically correct/rational makeup of a squad? Why have class restrictions at all then? It's not about everyone "liking the same weapons that we do". It's about creating something that's at least mildly realistic for the period. If you allow players to "choose" to have 8 SMGs, why not allow them to "choose" 6 MG42s also?

I mean, the only time I don't enjoy being a bolt is when, because of these high-auto maps, I get spammed to death evey 10 seconds. By dramatically increasing the number of auto-slots on larger servers, you also decrease the concentration of bolters, making them even MORE frustrating for players who don't like them to begin with. It's alright when you've got a bolt and are going up against 5 auto/semi troopers. It's something else when you're going up against 12.

 

[Uffz_Huib]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole point of having class restrictions in the first place an effort to try to create some sort of a historically correct/rational makeup of a squad? Why have class restrictions at all then? It's not about everyone "liking the same weapons that we do". It's about creating something that's at least mildly realistic for the period. If you allow players to "choose" to have 8 SMGs, why not allow them to "choose" 6 MG42s also?

I mean, the only time I don't enjoy being a bolt is when, because of these high-auto maps, I get spammed to death evey 10 seconds. By dramatically increasing the number of auto-slots on larger servers, you also decrease the concentration of bolters, making them even MORE frustrating for players who don't like them to begin with. It's alright when you've got a bolt and are going up against 5 auto/semi troopers. It's something else when you're going up against 12.

Very true. I agree wholeheartedly. Make ALL weapons free, OR choose realism. There is no road in the middle as the Dev seems to suggest.

 

[Hummer9120]

The official maps have unlimited rifleman slots so to say there are only 5 rifle slots is incorrect. You might experience rounds where there are only 5 people who choose the rifle role but that does not mean the rifle role has a limit. If we had not increased the number of semi and auto weapons a very large group of people would be stuck without a choice in weapons and be forced to use the rifle. You all have to remember not everyone likes the same weapons as you do. We felt it would not be a good thing to force players into a role they might not enjoy. (Don't get me wrong here I am not dissing the bolt.)

Sabu

By that logic, we should be getting unlimited snipers any day now.

Also, I want a King Tiger on Krovy.

 

[Sabu]

There are still class restrictions, as I stated before we felt that forcing all of the additional players to use one role was not the correct course of action. This is why the role limits were increased for the higher player count servers on all of the weapons with the exception of the rifleman roles which were already unlimited and could not be increased any further. Which means if everyone on a server wanted to, they could pick the rifle role. The Rifle role is not limited. None of the other roles are unlimited like the rifleman role, which is realistic as the rifle was the most prominent weapon in the field. It is up to the players to decide what weapon they use within the limits we have set on the maps.

These limits are set in the maps themselves and the editor is out there for you all to play with. =)

Sabu

 

[Sichartshofen]

If they didn't raise the automatic class limits poeople would be in here complaining about that. No matter what the devs do there will always be poeple complaining about something.

 

[ron_moron]

If they didn't raise the automatic class limits poeople would be in here complaining about that. No matter what the devs do there will always be poeple complaining about something.

you know, I don't think this is the case. People come to RO for it's added realism, so I just can't see people complaining there aren't more SMGs.

I know nothing of the editor, not running a server myself, but if it means you can make the class limits the same as with a 32 server then I hope people start using it and advertising their games as such, which would leave the free for all 50 servers for the frag whores.

 

[Demonic Spoon]

There are still class restrictions, as I stated before we felt that forcing all of the additional players to use one role was not the correct course of action. This is why the role limits were increased for the higher player count servers on all of the weapons with the exception of the rifleman roles which were already unlimited and could not be increased any further. Which means if everyone on a server wanted to, they could pick the rifle role. The Rifle role is not limited. None of the other roles are unlimited like the rifleman role, which is realistic as the rifle was the most prominent weapon in the field. It is up to the players to decide what weapon they use within the limits we have set on the maps.

These limits are set in the maps themselves and the editor is out there for you all to play with. =)

But you're assuming that the number of bolts will vary based on players. It wont. I have yet to join a game where a bunch of people bypassed an open Assault slot for a bolt rifle. Also, semi auto rifles are superior in basically every way compared to bolts-there is NO reason to choose bolts over these.

 

[Solo4114]

Your definition of realism and someone else's definition of realism may not be the same thing. In fact, they probably aren't the same thing. Plus, people love appealing to "realism" as a justification for what basically boils down to gameplay preference. Why? Simple. Gameplay preference is subjective and there is no "right" answer. Realism, on the other hand, is supposedly objective and therefore you can point to XYZ fact to prove that there is a "right" answer. Thing is, there's enough facts out there that people can pretty much find justification for any argument they want to make (up to a point).

So, for example, you say "The main weapon was the rifle" and someone else comes along and says "What about the entire Russian battallion that was equiped with SMGs??" And so on and so forth.


The simple solution to this is to mod the maps. Or develop a mutator.



Question:

Does the server AUTOMATICALLY run the 50 player versions of the maps when the player limit is above a certain point? Can a 50 player server CHOOSE to run a 32 player version of the same map?

 

[Solo4114]

But you're assuming that the number of bolts will vary based on players. It wont. I have yet to join a game where a bunch of people bypassed an open Assault slot for a bolt rifle. Also, semi auto rifles are superior in basically every way compared to bolts-there is NO reason to choose bolts over these.

It depends on the map, though. Generally, I agree, but on a map like Berezina I'd rather have a bolt. Likewise, I'll pick a bolt over the G43 EVERY time. But that's because I suck with the G43.