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2022 End-of-Year Survey: WEAPON Suggestions

Mister Master

Active member
Oct 11, 2020
39
11
I filled out the end-of-year survey and wanted to share some specifics as to why I gave certain weapons the scores that I did. If I don't mention a weapon here, it is good as is.

You can also find my Perk Skill Suggestions thread here.

  1. Berserker
    • Eviscerator: Slightly too powerful. I would recommend bringing down the damage slightly or making the ammo cost a bit more.
    • Ion Thruster: Slightly too weak. Normal weapon use is fine, but it is hard to use the special ability effectively, and if you aren't close enough to a ZED when you use it, the special ability will be completely wasted (this happens often if you try and activate the special ability but get knocked back by a big ZED right before it activates). Perhaps extend the range of the special ability.
  2. Commando
  3. Support
  4. Field Medic
    • HRG Healthrower: Too powerful. This weapon has amazing healing power with the spray alone, so maybe nerf the healing darts to the level of the HMTech-201 SMG.
    • Corrupter Carbine: Slightly too weak. While a very effective weapon, it is super hard to be a good medic and heal your team with this weapon, especially at long range for which this weapon is supposed to be used. The seed should be able to auto-track to players like regular darts and heal them (but for less health than the corrupted ZED explosion).
    • HRG Medic Missile: Too weak. While a fun idea, it's hard to stay alive with this weapon due to the minimum arming distance of 2.74 meters and therefore difficulty healing oneself with it. Since the explosion cannot hurt players at all, why not remove the minimum arming distance completely? Even if this seems too OP, I would be fine with increasing the weight slightly to compensate.
  5. Demolitionist
    • C4 Explosives: Way too weak. I understand the requirement of C4 not being too powerful so that teams don't gang up on bosses with only C4 (like they did in KF1), but now no one ever uses C4. We should at least be able to upgrade it. Even with an increase in damage via upgrades, it cannot be easily abused because of the steep upgrade costs and increase in weight.
  6. Firebug
    • HRG Scorcher: Too weak. This weapon definitely under-performs compared to same-tier weapons. The burn effect from the primary fire mode (and maybe secondary as well) needs to last much longer, while the impact damage can be reduced to account for the burn effect's extension (but overall giving more damage output). The primary fire burn effect only lasts for 3 seconds!!! A regular flare (in Firebug's Molotov Cocktail) lasts for a whopping 31 seconds! Flare weapons like this one should definitely rely much, MUCH more on DOT, making it more unique in the Firebug's arsenal.
  7. Gunslinger
  8. Sharpshooter
    • HRG Head Hunter: Slightly too weak. This weapon would be more balanced if popping heads with the wave attack counted as a head shot for skills like Rack 'Em Up, even if base wave attack damage needed to be slightly reduced.
    • M99 AMR: Slightly too weak for the price. If the price were reduced to 2000, it would match the ability of this weapon. The ammo is expensive anyway, so reducing the purchase cost would be fair.
  9. SWAT
    • Riot Shield & Glock 18: Slightly too weak. The shield aspect needs to be more worth it and should have just as much resistance (if not more) as the Bone Crusher's shield (x0.3 damage multiplier instead of x0.4).
  10. Survivalist
    • HX25 Grenade Pistol: With the relatively new ability to select your starting weapon as Survivalist, the Grenade Pistol is the obvious choice since it sells for more than the other starting weapons. Can the price be brought down to be equal with the other starting weapons?
    • HRG Locust: Too powerful. This weapon is super easy to use and is highly effective against most any ZED. You can balance it by not changing anything about the weapon except making it cost 1400 (and therefore a tier 4 weapon, which would only give it 1 upgrade).
Thanks for reading!
 
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Eviscerator: Slightly too powerful. I would recommend bringing down the damage slightly or making the ammo cost a bit more.
Eviscerator's fine, at least where 6P HoE is concerned. It's OK at a lot of things but doesn't do any of them particularly well; it serves as a passable training wheels/"I don't trust my abilities" weapon for Berserkers that can be useful at just about any skill level on any difficulty--just that it's far from optimal for a skilled player since other loadouts (VLAD + good melee) will be far more devastating and secure kills more quickly.

If anything, it's probably a little on the weak side where actual takedowns are concerned.

HRG Medic Missile: Too weak. While a fun idea, it's hard to stay alive with this weapon due to the minimum arming distance of 2.74 meters and therefore difficulty healing oneself with it. Since the explosion cannot hurt players at all, why not remove the minimum arming distance completely? Even if this seems too OP, I would be fine with increasing the weight slightly to compensate.
It is always a bad idea to give Medics (really, players in general) extra ways to heal themselves on top of their already insane survivability, because experience shows that Medics will pick those weapons to forego all other means of playing the game if it means they can keep themselves alive even if it comes at the expense of helping the rest of their team.
This is bad design and poisons the well where Medic players are concerned, causes less-skilled players to drop other perks for self-healing capabilities on higher difficulties, and also creates an ouroboros of "medic takes self-healing weapon --> medic doesn't help team --> team doesn't trust medic --> medic doesn't trust team --> medic takes self-healing weapon..."

This is also, I presume, the exact reason why the Mine Reconstructor's floor mines cannot heal the Medic who fired them just by running into them. And for that reason, the HRGRPG (pronounced "Hurggy Purggy") shouldn't be able to just shoot at the floor and heal the Medic who fired it.

It already offers Medics yet another way to *sigh* contribute effortlessly to Scrake takedowns. It got a massive buff coming out of the most recent update. It doesn't need any more.

C4 Explosives: Way too weak. I understand the requirement of C4 not being too powerful so that teams don't gang up on bosses with only C4 (like they did in KF1), but now no one ever uses C4. We should at least be able to upgrade it. Even with an increase in damage via upgrades, it cannot be easily abused because of the steep upgrade costs and increase in weight.
The C4 has been and, unless it is nerfed, will remain an invaluable tool to Demos actually doing their job (dedicated anti-HVT loadouts). It remains the ultimate combo tool for skilled Demos and does this in Zed-Time just to rub the point in.

Unfortunately, most players don't know the mechanics of how C4 works and don't care to learn, let alone practice, which leaves the weapon underutilized.

Most bad players wouldn't use it unless it were buffed to the point where it could instantly kill FPs off a fresh det, and even then, most would still favor the Kaboomstick because it's too easy.

HRG Scorcher: Too weak. This weapon definitely under-performs compared to same-tier weapons. The burn effect from the primary fire mode (and maybe secondary as well) needs to last much longer, while the impact damage can be reduced to account for the burn effect's extension (but overall giving more damage output). The primary fire burn effect only lasts for 3 seconds!!! A regular flare (in Firebug's Molotov Cocktail) lasts for a whopping 31 seconds! Flare weapons like this one should definitely rely much, MUCH more on DOT, making it more unique in the Firebug's arsenal.
There's worse, but there's better. These suggestions wouldn't unfortunately make it much more than a tool for raging HVTs.

Having said that, there's a good reason why no weapons other than the grenades have a burn duration that lasts for 31 seconds (really, any longer than a few seconds) and a lot of that good reason is Pyromaniac.

HRG Head Hunter: Slightly too weak. This weapon would be more balanced if popping heads with the wave attack counted as a head shot for skills like Rack 'Em Up, even if base wave attack damage needed to be slightly reduced.
It needs to be bad. A weapon that earns headshot damage for you can't be good and be fair by design.

It's a very low skill ceiling option for Sharp that is outperformed by doing the thing Sharp should be doing in the first place, which is actually shooting heads.

M99 AMR: Slightly too weak for the price. If the price were reduced to 2000, it would match the ability of this weapon. The ammo is expensive anyway, so reducing the purchase cost would be fair.
It's the low skill-ceiling option for LLLLL Sharps. It still has niche uses and is still an easier way to achieve 1-shot breakpoints than the Railgun but fails to keep pace with a well-handled Railgun.

Ultimately players should push themselves to master the Railgun for optimal effectiveness, but the M99 isn't bad, just outpaced.

Riot Shield & Glock 18: Slightly too weak. The shield aspect needs to be more worth it and should have just as much resistance (if not more) as the Bone Crusher's shield (x0.3 damage multiplier instead of x0.4).
Hard disagree. The Bone Crusher is a tank-oriented weapon on a class that is designed to be tanking blows, especially against bosses. The hitscan trash cleaner doesn't need a shield in the first place, but especially not one as strong as the BC because it would intrude on Berserker's primary role (and encourage SWATs to tank instead of shoot).
 
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Hemoclobber : well, the zerk is already a big mean tanking machine. It has access to parrying, it can heal itself (either automatically or by killing zeds) and is sturdier and faster. I don't think it needs even more healing from the already phenomenal Hemoclobber.

Eviscerator : as Onion pointed out, it's actually in a fairly good place. I believe it's a weapon used by a lot of new players (at least it was back in the day) up until you realize you got other options that are better, and often cheaper as well. It has good parrying, it can decap zeds fairly reliably and is a monster in corridors. But it's still fairly hard to effectively kill big zeds with it (without launching a full mag at their faces that is). I wouldn't say it needs buffs though... It's fair to give the mostly-melee perk a ranged option that has many flaws IMO.

Ion Thruster : I agree that the alt fire is hard to use. Mostly, I believe it shouldn't take THAT LONG to charge. I often only use it once or twice per wave... I would love to at least double that. But as a weapon though, it's like a katana on steroids. It's honestly pretty damn powerful, especially once you reach a decent zerk level. I was the first to doubt the weapon but I tried it a little bit more lately and it's honestly pretty versatile.

Healthrower : I fully agree with you !

Corrupter Carbine : I clearly haven't touched the gun enough to make a solid argument, especially as a mostly solo player. In my few memories, it was a pretty solid gun, but indeed : it's an unreliable way to heal effectively, which should always be the Medic's priority.

Medic Missile : While I agree with Onion once again, the weapon is definitely here to stay (at least we've never seen Tripwire removing a weapon so far). So considering it won't be gone, I'd rather have a weapon that's at least USABLE. I like your idea of totally removing the arm time, but then it should definitely lose the Scrake bonus... It makes no sense to give such a powerful ability to a MEDIC perk.

C4 : the main issue I see (as with most "tool" oriented weapons) is that you can't use it as a primary. It's more like extra fancy grenades. The main problem is that I never know when to buy them. If I buy them to soon, I might be lacking in ammo/armor/firepower. If I buy them too late, they might rot in my inventory forever. But as Onion pointed out (again !), they are actually pretty damn useful and powerful. Then can fully erase a crowd of zeds, and badly cripple a big one. Assuming you're better at remembering where you put your C4, it can also be a great tool to either trap zeds or cover your escape. They're super neat, just a bit less reliable than most weapons.

Scorcher : again, I feel the main gripe with this weapon is that it's a poor primary choice. It lacks reserve ammo and has only one shot loaded at times... Hardly making for an efficient way to CC ! But at the same time, what an insane secondary it is. You can honestly cover a lot of ground with a single flare, and with "ground fire", you can definitely bring the pain. Granted, it's not a bad idea to keep a little something with more RoF and ammo when the amount of zeds become overwhelming... But it's definitely not a bad weapon, or at least not a weak one.

Head Hunter : this weapon is a joke and should never be used. It takes far too long to accomplish what most other Sharpshooter weapons can do just as efficiently, and even better, for a fraction of the price.

M99 AMR : suuuure it's mad expensive, but it's also a zed-deleter. I don't think anything can resist a fully-powered (as in : skills + Rack'em'up charges) headshot of that thing. I also find it to be little more than a cranked-up Railgun, and so I don't always reach for it (especially if I want another sidearm than the .500 and/or if the money is a bit low). But I feel like it's doing what is expected of it. Maybe it could be closer than other T5 and have a 2000 price range (or a tad more... 2100-2200) but that's the only thing I'd buff honestly.

Riot Shield & G18 : for once I don't fully agree with Onion and I personally think that the SWAT can definitely be considered the second tank of the game after the zerk. Sets him a bit more apart from the Commando. And for that reason, I'm not mad that the G18's spread is ludicrous. However, I cannot accept that you have to ADS to receive the protection bonus... It should be bound to the alt-fire, Bonecrusher's style. You'd basically trade off firepower for extra survivability, without the generous "parry" bonus either. If anything, that's at least a weapon that feels different in an arsenal full of weapons that are very similar (honestly, the SWAT and Gunslinger are the most guilty of that, and at least the GS has access to the LAR/Centerfire). Then again, throw in a couple hundred more bucks and you got the Bastion which does everything the Riot Shield does but way better...

HX-25 : It has been a neat trick that existed since the very first game... It was common for everyone to start as sharpshooters as you had bonuses related to the 9mm. And since you leveled that perk faster as a result, you would quickly gain access to the crossbow as you spawn... Allowing for more firepower and more dosh at wave 2 ! While it has been toned-down a lot in KF2, I still often start the game as a SWAT to have full-armor and an extra 9mm to sell... It's cheap, but I don't mind it staying that way to be fair. After all, the HX-25 is still less versatile that most T1 options. It's also common to run out of ammo before the wave ends so... Yeah, you're trading a little more money in exchange for a possibly worse starter.

Locust : What hasn't been said about that gun already? It's honestly the most ludicrous thing I've seen in KF2, up until the Ballistic Bouncer on release anyway. I do believe it needs far more than a price increase : less reserve ammo and ammo per mag, lower RoF and possibly an even smaller AoE. Anything that could prevent that thing from being a free win.
 
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try the right branch of skills someday, and you will fold up like wet paper from any zed thicker than a Slasher, or from one combo of a stalker/crawler sneaking up from behind, if you do not have medic girlfriend sitting on your back 24/7.
Wait... You're playing WITHOUT Parry and Skirmisher??

If you still manage to die from "anything bigger than a slasher", I assure you're just bad at the perk dude.
 
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Wait... You're playing WITHOUT Parry and Skirmisher??

If you still manage to die from "anything bigger than a slasher", I assure you're just bad at the perk dude.
Dude made an entire thread asking if it was wrong to facetank an entire Husk flamethrower already aimed at them, with a YouTube video included for proof.

I know I pick on Zerks, but sometimes they make it too easy and hit every branch on the stereotype tree.
 
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Dude made an entire thread asking if it was wrong to facetank an entire Husk flamethrower already aimed at them, with a YouTube video included for proof.

I know I pick on Zerks, but sometimes they make it too easy and hit every branch on the stereotype tree.
There the point was in context, which is hard to notice if your goal is to win an argument on the forums
 
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There the point was in context, which is hard to notice if your goal is to win an argument on the forums
Context or not, the answer is pretty self-explanatory my friend. The Husk quickly chews through health and armor alike at close range, and its kamikaze attack is often a one-shot kill. Attacking it as a Zerk is ill-advised, unless you either manage to quickly stun him, use an EMP grenade, or fall back to a ranged weapon.
At their core, Killing Floor's perks were designed specifically to have strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes it was to certain types of enemies (the Firebug and SWAT are great at Crowd Control, blasting away hordes of trash zeds with ease... but struggle against tougher zeds), sometimes to certain situations (both the Sharp and Demo tend to need their team to cover them at close distances... Hell, the Demo didn't really have a reliable PDW weapon on release!)

It's only in latter years that perks began to be stupidly efficient at dealing with anything, especially with additions to their arsenal that often made little sense or were just far too rewarding for too little risk.
 
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