Please Nerf the Matriarch and buff the SWAT

[Humam2104]

the matriarch is able to kill a player on HOE even if he has full hp and armor, and sometimes we aren't really that lucky.
Also, SWAT sucks because it has no efficient role in the team, commando does more damage with less bullets and firebug does the same with higher kills than both of them. The only thing it really has is the HRG Nailgun because it kills bosses more easily

 

[Aleflippy]

I don't play on HoE, so maybe she's indeed way more punishing in that mode. But even in Suicidal... I find her quite easy to take down. Not overly so, but I rarely bite the dust. Can't say the same about good ol' Patty however...

As for SWAT though, I strongly disagree. His tanking capabilities, stun grenades (and crippling advantages while shooting his SMGs) as well as his mobility are great tools in any team and makes him far more than a mere commando lite. He's also a better trash cleaner... probably the best in the game in fact.

And while you mention the HRG Nailgun and its ludicrous DPS, don't forget his weapons are quite lightweight too. Allowing him to sports two very damaging guns during late waves.

He's hardly the most creative perk, but to say he sucks is simply untrue.

 

[Humam2104]

without the Nailgun or the Shield you're screwed on HOE because you die quickly, he has less damage to melee attacks btw since he's resistant to bullets

 

[Kittenmittens]

I believe most bosses can tear through full health if players aren't careful. Hans can spray you down, chase you down with melee combos, or if you aren't paying attention he can take you out if your standing on a bunch of his grenades. If you aren't careful you can eat a facefull of rockets or get sprayed down by Patty as well. I think everyone is just so used to the older bosses that the newer one is still a bit more of a challenge simply due to being less familiar with the fight.

 

[Humam2104]

I don't think that's the case, patty's attacks can be easily dodged even in an open space, his chaingun doesn't work if you're too close or too far. And his rocket launcher can be avoided by jumping to the left or to the right in the last moments.. you can also parry his attacks if you're close and you can avoid his tentacle in the late phase of the fight by keeping distance
Hans' grenades can be easily avoided if you move a little bit to the back, plus hitting him on his head stumbles him back. His bullets won't hurt you if you're far and they're not that damaging to be honest
King FP and Abomination are easy although the abomination spawns can appear continuously in some rounds but you can kill him easily despite that
But the matriarch's plazma can't be avoided easily because she will hit you no matter how far you are, and it does more damage than any other attack from any other boss.. she's just op and broken

 

[Humam2104]

Why the matriarch needs a nerf, Let's compare her to all other bosses:
Matriarch's attacks all have 2.5 seconds of cooldown (excluding melee attacks and scorpion whip), this is on all difficulties
Source: https://wiki.killingfloor2.com/index.php?title=Matriarch#Incapacitation_Resistance

While the patriarch's attacks have 7s, 5s, 7s and 7s respetively (assuming Phase 4 which is his deadliest stage)
The patriarch's the closest thing to the matriarch in terms of behavior and ranged attacks
Source: https://wiki.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?title=Patriarch_(Killing_Floor_2)#Battle_Phases

Hans Volter's attacks have very high cooldowns even at his last stage, he uses his melee but he's easily stumbled by shooting his head repeatedly
Source: https://wiki.killingfloor2.com/index.php?title=Dr._Hans_Volter#Battle_Phases

King FP's is not that hard and his rage is 10-14 seconds while his beam attack cool down is 6 seconds at worst
Source: https://wiki.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?title=King_Fleshpound#Attacks

Conclusion: None of the bosses has nearly the same cooldown or the same mechanics as the matriarch.. I've mentioned that her attacks are somewhat unavoidable in open areas while Patriarch's attacks can be easily avoided even in open areas for example.. I hope this convinces the developers to help us players with this game.. thanks
I've read this post on Steam that shows why the Commando has everything SWAT has and even more, I think it's also worth reading and I didn't write any of it here to prevent repition

Why play SWAT when Commando exists? :: Killing Floor 2 General Discussions

Damage potential Commando weapons are generally more powerful than SWAT weapons. The superior fire rate of SWAT weapons do a fine job balancing out this weakness, until you consider skills and passive bonuses. At max level Commando and SWAT both provide a passive 25% bonus to damage . However...

steamcommunity.com

 

[infntnub]

This is definitely part of it.. early on in EA or right around release a lot of people felt Hans was very difficult. I know he was tweaked a bit since then, but most of the "ease" people find with the original 2 bosses is just overall familiarity with fight mechanics.

 

[Deleted member 87733]

can i put my 3 cents in, her lazer beam is too strong and she needs a Nerf. She can kill the team before her armor is gone and this is with rank 25 at level 5 so the players have experience.

 

[infntnub]

I think the concerns here may be a bit misplaced, but I also think this stems from 2 types of mentalities in the community.

- players that expect to reach a point where every boss is easy [or at least not overly challenging] on higher difficulties and most matches are likely to end with a boss kill

- players that prefer a constant challenge, regardless how long they've played the game or their level, when they play higher difficulties

What am I getting at with this comment? I am suggesting it's better that a boss kill/map completion become more rare, and less "the norm" on Suicidal and HOE.

Even with the concerns noted about Matriarch here, she's easy as heck to take down on lower difficulty, but it actually becomes a fight that involves some thought on Sui/HOE. Asking for her to be dumbed down a bit would obviously result in a higher success rate on these difficulties, but do we really want that?

Is she difficult at times? Yes, but not to the point where it feels cheap [IMO].

If anything, I think TWI could go back to all the other bosses and review some minor buffs for Sui/HOE. As it stands now, SUI almost always ends in victory and I'd guess HOE is somewhere in the neighborhood of 40/60 [40 being success]. That strikes me as too high, and it strictly taken from my experiences.

To be clear, I'm not saying either of the 2 mentalities is "wrong", but I just wanted to throw my 2 cents into the conversation as I really like having serious doubts heading into the boss fight. It almost feels like you're just going through the motions when patty or abomination spawn since you know it's going to be an easy win.

 

[Humam2104]

I think the concerns here may be a bit misplaced, but I also think this stems from 2 types of mentalities in the community.

- players that expect to reach a point where every boss is easy [or at least not overly challenging] on higher difficulties and most matches are likely to end with a boss kill

- players that prefer a constant challenge, regardless how long they've played the game or their level, when they play higher difficulties

What am I getting at with this comment? I am suggesting it's better that a boss kill/map completion become more rare, and less "the norm" on Suicidal and HOE.

Even with the concerns noted about Matriarch here, she's easy as heck to take down on lower difficulty, but it actually becomes a fight that involves some thought on Sui/HOE. Asking for her to be dumbed down a bit would obviously result in a higher success rate on these difficulties, but do we really want that?

Is she difficult at times? Yes, but not to the point where it feels cheap [IMO].

If anything, I think TWI could go back to all the other bosses and review some minor buffs for Sui/HOE. As it stands now, SUI almost always ends in victory and I'd guess HOE is somewhere in the neighborhood of 40/60 [40 being success]. That strikes me as too high, and it strictly taken from my experiences.

To be clear, I'm not saying either of the 2 mentalities is "wrong", but I just wanted to throw my 2 cents into the conversation as I really like having serious doubts heading into the boss fight. It almost feels like you're just going through the motions when patty or abomination spawn since you know it's going to be an easy win.

I think the matriarch is not compatible with the other bosses in the game.. she makes them so easy, if some people really want a challenge they could go and play in HOE++ using CD.
Alot of HOE and Suicidal servers are empty because of these inconsistencies and these servers are getting paid by TWI only to be empty most of the time.
it's not usual for games to be so hard for gamers that they can't complete them even with an experienced team, instead the people who would want a higher challenge can play the way they want (Maxmonsters=60, 12 Fake Players and so on...)

 

[missing_trigger]

Her lazer beam is NOTHING like any other bosses attacks!

 

[infntnub]

I think the matriarch is not compatible with the other bosses in the game.. she makes them so easy

Yes, she does make the other bosses seem easier and in most cases underwhelming.

This leads into my remark about suggesting TWI revisit the other bosses for potential tweaks on higher difficulties.

The frustration some have with Matriarch is likely largely related to how easy the other bosses feel in comparison.

Maybe there's a middle ground where they nerf Matriach slightly and buff remaining bosses slightly to have them all on similar levels.

Of course, that suggestion lacks any details on how to achieve this end result, but overall it's a suggestion I'd be interested in seeing TWI work towards.

 

[Aleflippy]

I actually feel you nailed it...even in regards to Humam's comment right below.

This could apply for a lot of stuff within Killing Floor... And gaming in general. Are things truly hard? Or do they appear that way because everything else is too bloody easy?

It's common for people to just cheese games by taking the easy path. And while that's perfectly fine for people to try to find the apex of the game to actually "master" it... one should also accept that some people LOVE the challenge.

That's the main appeal towards souls-likes or rogue-likes. And while Killing Floor is nowhere near those two genres, it would be great to keep in mind that not winning every playthrough is okay. It's part of the fun even.

 

[Deleted member 87733]

take away her secondary shields , she already has a buffed up primary so why do we need additional 2?

seriously, i hate this boss and i have a 4 letter word for her starting with C...

 

[TheIncredibleWindows98]

In my two cents as a berserker

I have an easier time dealing with all the other bosses because there's a period where I can recuperate. With matriarch she is literally in your face pretty much all the time and it doesn't matter who she is attacking, she'll happily melt you wither either her incredibly damaging AOE or her "basically a sniper rifle" beam (until it is gone at least) to which then she starts to try and melee and wombo-combo's you with a scorpion grab, followed by a pummel, and then a burst AOE or another punch. I run with resistance too, keep that in mind.

Her drones are immensely excessive too because now beserkers have NUMEROUS things to look out for and to be aware and its extremely distracting trying to get a group of robots who pretty much give you the middle finger sometimes from spawn zones where only ranged perk classes can essentially shoot. She is not fun to go up against and the challenge hike on her, is honestly, just ridiculous. Even with proper planning and on the toe thinking, you're better off getting gunned down by Patty because at least then it feels like you'll come out alive. If you so much as happen to stand next to her or just go bumping into her while you're busy trying to take out bots, guess what? You're dead.

I'm in the agreement she needs some sort of desperate nerfing. Take away her shield or maybe have her AOE bursts take a bit longer between cooldowns because her boss fights are reliant on the team having some sort of field medic with them at all times (she basically has both Abom armor AND King FP shields). I don't think its being "less familiar" with her or the familiarity of the other bosses. It's literally because she doesn't give players a freakin' second to take a breather, she has every counter against you in the book and if she doesn't, her horde of robots will likely considering they throw bombers, lasers and even both by the literal dump truck loads that could fill up the Spillway map.

Please actually make her fun to fight against or get rid of her altogether. I would literally like to fight a horde of large fleshpounds, sirens, and scrakes rather than fight her. I would literally like to fight 10 patty's rather than just 1 Matri. I dunno how else I can say it really. I like her design, I like the idea behind her, but she's executed in the most poor way possible that takes into account what feels like only Demolitionists and Medics. If you're a different perk, you might as well just give up or be prepared for the worst fight of your life.

Take me with a grain of salt, because I honestly don't think Beserkers were taken into account with this boss.

 

[TheIncredibleWindows98]

Just as a side note, I really only created an account here just to get across how strenuous and stressful she honestly is. If I can't have a chance going at her toe to toe but I can with every other boss? We have a problem (especially since nowadays she's spawning as the boss pretty much what feels like constantly. I rarely get to see patty or even doc that much anymore). She really is someone who just throws perks out the window because its not compatible with HER fight style such as the upclose and personal Beserkers.

 

[infntnub]

I may be incorrect to take your statement literally, but I don't believe she was ever intended to be a boss you can go "toe to toe" with. Environmental cover is an absolute must in your strategy along with decent team strategy, especially when chipping away at her shield. The issue with taking away from her current skill options is that she could quickly become mediocre like most of the current bosses by doing this. Perhaps reduce the duration of the shield or lessen the # of edars [or remove them from the equation - as she is enough of a challenge without them]. There are definitely re-tooling options TWI should consider if they feel enough people share some of the concerns expressed here, but I would hope the outright removal of any of her current abilities will not be one of them.

"worst fight of your life" is a comment you ended with that seems like a dramatic closure to your concerns. She's a lot of fun to play cat and mouse with in most interactions, but keeping distance is obviously key. Having a few competent teammates is almost a most as well, because if she only has one target to focus on it's pretty much game over. If you make a poor decision, even with good teammates, yes you will likely die [sometimes fast]. The edars are, more often than not, my personal undoing against her. One second I think I'm safe and then she summons a horde on me lol. Then it's a rip.

 

[Humam2104]

You need a ranged weapon to fight her easier, I use the HRG Teslauncher for that.

 

[Barot8]

On the Matriarch I feel she's in a good spot. If you on an open area map you do end up getting killed. On a map with obstacles, even a pillar or a truck, she's pretty easy until the Edars start showing. I'd like to see the other bosses get a buff. King Fleshpound should run much faster. His ground pound attack should have a much wider range of effect, possibly stunning players. And his one ranged attack should have a larger beam width so kneeling players would take some damage. Abomination should move faster but be less of a bullet sponge. Patriarch should be able to fire his weapons faster.

 

[Humam2104]

On the Matriarch I feel she's in a good spot. If you on an open area map you do end up getting killed. On a map with obstacles, even a pillar or a truck, she's pretty easy until the Edars start showing. I'd like to see the other bosses get a buff. King Fleshpound should run much faster. His ground pound attack should have a much wider range of effect, possibly stunning players. And his one ranged attack should have a larger beam width so kneeling players would take some damage. Abomination should move faster but be less of a bullet sponge. Patriarch should be able to fire his weapons faster.

I beg to disagree, the other bosses are fine and people really adapted to them..
I don't think it's the right move to buff all other bosses instead of just nerfing one