How to Fix the M14
- Thread starter Jameh
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I can't believe I bothered to read every single post in this thread...
I quite like that idea. Seconded.
I quite like that idea. Seconded.
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i just saw a few posts and decided to comment on them....
i agree about people trying to make a "square shape" into a "circle shape" or as i stated a couple posts back making a "dog" into a "cat".......i think both examples were trying to show the idea that the EBR is not a proper SS weapon and despite every suggestion given on how to tweek the EBR into a SS weapon, it's just something that isn't realistically going to be possible.
i also like the idea for a bolt-action type SS rifle to be added to give the SS an appropriate "sniping" rifle.
however, i have to disaggree about the M14EBR not having a place in KF.....given my already suggested idea to move the weapon to a different perk, that's why i think that the weapon can stay in the game without it disrupting gameplay. the EBR is only seen as a problem because, like has already been said by so many, it's allowing SS to fill multiple roles as the EBR is very good at spamming to begin with, PLUS the SS bonuses make it even more effective to spam with than say the commando who has an equally balanced weapon in the SCAR (at least with base stats) but less generous bonuses applied to it.....all aside from the fact that the SS bonuses also make the EBR very effective at helping the perk fill the role of taking down priority targets like FP/scrakes/husks
so you're saying you can't understand why my suggestion would work? how? i've already done this many times, but i'll be happy to do it again....the "time consuming/confusing" arguement.....
results of just my main suggestion:
now add in the second portion of my suggestion with the bullpup-medic, L85/SA80-commando move/addition:
i realize your comment was mostly a joke batty, but this makes sense......people are more affraid of my idea because they don't look at the weapon stats, or the logical reasoning behind the idea which already show the EBR will NOT get "screw up" the commando like it did the SS. people also fail to see just how much work would be necissary to try each and every proposed tweeks to the M14EBR's coding for various stats. i hope what i posted above will show how much more efficient my suggestion is.
sweet, at least we can easily agree on one thing.....and btw, i don't hate you and i hope you don't feel like i'm targeting just you. actually for that matter i'm not targeting anyone. i'm just simply trying to explain things in hopes that people will finally "get it" like i have. i used to say "tweek this and this and this and that will fix the EBR", until i realized that's not the most practical or effective solution.
last thing i promise....what have we all become? good forum posters (at least for the most part). seriously, all this thread consists of is arguements back and forth supporting/refuting ideas. it's all good discussion. despite a couple comments, everything has been kept under control, at least when compared to some other suggestion threads
. i'd imagine everyone's still on "friendly" terms. i mean guys, some of us may disaggree on a couple things but what's wrong with that? all humans tend to be in disagreement with something, it's just part of our nature. it only gets unfriendly when name calling starts, trolling, flaming, baiting, reporting each other to "shut somebody up" or get back at somebody etc......to my knowledge none of that has happened yet
i agree about people trying to make a "square shape" into a "circle shape" or as i stated a couple posts back making a "dog" into a "cat".......i think both examples were trying to show the idea that the EBR is not a proper SS weapon and despite every suggestion given on how to tweek the EBR into a SS weapon, it's just something that isn't realistically going to be possible.
i also like the idea for a bolt-action type SS rifle to be added to give the SS an appropriate "sniping" rifle.
however, i have to disaggree about the M14EBR not having a place in KF.....given my already suggested idea to move the weapon to a different perk, that's why i think that the weapon can stay in the game without it disrupting gameplay. the EBR is only seen as a problem because, like has already been said by so many, it's allowing SS to fill multiple roles as the EBR is very good at spamming to begin with, PLUS the SS bonuses make it even more effective to spam with than say the commando who has an equally balanced weapon in the SCAR (at least with base stats) but less generous bonuses applied to it.....all aside from the fact that the SS bonuses also make the EBR very effective at helping the perk fill the role of taking down priority targets like FP/scrakes/husks
so you're saying you can't understand why my suggestion would work? how? i've already done this many times, but i'll be happy to do it again....the "time consuming/confusing" arguement.....
results of just my main suggestion:
- EBR moves to commando where the commando's perk bonuses would balance out the weapon's currently overpowered (due to SS bonuses) effectiveness at spamming....the "new" EBR would be equivilant to the SCAR, which i've not seen one person argue that the SCAR is currently unbalanced.
- a gun that currently unbalances the SS is removed so the SS "identity" is re-established and the perk becomes substancially more balanced
- amount of total work: next to nothing, not even one line of weapon stat coding is tweeked. no messing with multiple variables like recoil, base damage, reload time, ammo capacity, rate of fire etc... or having to test EACH one of those variables to find the "perfect" balance.
- messing with the rate of fire
- messing with the reload time
- messing with the ammo capacity
- messing with the base damage
- messing with the battery life
- messing with the ironsights
- messing with adding a scope
- testing the changes made to all the above
- going back to tweek certain tweeks in attempts to make it more balanced
- repeat previous step ex. amount of times until it finally works all the while with the assumption that it will completely stop SS from spamming the weapon and now learning how to do their job
now add in the second portion of my suggestion with the bullpup-medic, L85/SA80-commando move/addition:
- moving the bullpup to the medic....no individual weapon stats need to be edited. the bullpup without commando bonuses is just slightly more powerful than the mp7 in the hands of the medic, which is ok as the medic could use something with a bit more firepower without making the medic too good at "killing" and discouraging medics to do their job.
- without the bullpup, the commando is left without a tier1 weapon that would be less powerful than the AK. the perk already has a tier2 weapon and 2 interchangeable tier3 weapons, so to avoid messing with coding on all three of those weapons, just port over a gun from the mod (L85/SA80) or better yet polish up the already ported version that batty did.
- total amount of work is minimal and we get a new weapon added into the game
i realize your comment was mostly a joke batty, but this makes sense......people are more affraid of my idea because they don't look at the weapon stats, or the logical reasoning behind the idea which already show the EBR will NOT get "screw up" the commando like it did the SS. people also fail to see just how much work would be necissary to try each and every proposed tweeks to the M14EBR's coding for various stats. i hope what i posted above will show how much more efficient my suggestion is.
sweet, at least we can easily agree on one thing.....and btw, i don't hate you and i hope you don't feel like i'm targeting just you. actually for that matter i'm not targeting anyone. i'm just simply trying to explain things in hopes that people will finally "get it" like i have. i used to say "tweek this and this and this and that will fix the EBR", until i realized that's not the most practical or effective solution.
last thing i promise....what have we all become? good forum posters (at least for the most part). seriously, all this thread consists of is arguements back and forth supporting/refuting ideas. it's all good discussion. despite a couple comments, everything has been kept under control, at least when compared to some other suggestion threads
. i'd imagine everyone's still on "friendly" terms. i mean guys, some of us may disaggree on a couple things but what's wrong with that? all humans tend to be in disagreement with something, it's just part of our nature. it only gets unfriendly when name calling starts, trolling, flaming, baiting, reporting each other to "shut somebody up" or get back at somebody etc......to my knowledge none of that has happened yet
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What lol.
People need to realise that the SCAR is also overpowered, and if you feel that moving the m14 to commando will balance it perfectly, then why not nerf m14 base damage/recoil/all that good stuff accordingly?
and the time consuming part is bringing in the new weapon (L85?) to replace the bullpup, then balancing the bullpup for the medic (medic dart attachment?)
and whats with the bullpup nerf? no weapon bonuses from any perk? whats the point? It will become the next machete and wont be used
Also, what makes you think the ported gun wont need balancing? Kinda like that long list for the m14? And then 'polishing up' the gun.
I didnt mention any of those other nerfs to the m14, Adjusting Fire rate and ammo will do just fine.
People need to realise that the SCAR is also overpowered, and if you feel that moving the m14 to commando will balance it perfectly, then why not nerf m14 base damage/recoil/all that good stuff accordingly?
and the time consuming part is bringing in the new weapon (L85?) to replace the bullpup, then balancing the bullpup for the medic (medic dart attachment?)
and whats with the bullpup nerf? no weapon bonuses from any perk? whats the point? It will become the next machete and wont be used
Also, what makes you think the ported gun wont need balancing? Kinda like that long list for the m14? And then 'polishing up' the gun.
I didnt mention any of those other nerfs to the m14, Adjusting Fire rate and ammo will do just fine.
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I've never seen anyone even think that the SCAR is OP. Please describe how it is in the least.
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Very powerful, cheap, lots of ammo, its a less powerful m14 with auto fire/better sights/larger mag
All tier 3's should be nerfed to be alternative tier 2, tier 3 is too powerful
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sweet, at least we can easily agree on one thing.....and btw, i don't hate you and i hope you don't feel like i'm targeting just you. actually for that matter i'm not targeting anyone. i'm just simply trying to explain things in hopes that people will finally "get it" like i have. i used to say "tweek this and this and this and that will fix the EBR", until i realized that's not the most practical or effective solution.
last thing i promise....what have we all become? good forum posters (at least for the most part). seriously, all this thread consists of is arguements back and forth supporting/refuting ideas. it's all good discussion. despite a couple comments, everything has been kept under control, at least when compared to some other suggestion threads
You know something, your not that bad of a guy. I like your suggestions and the way you so strongly protect and support then. You would make an excellent lawyer and decision maker.
I really think the L22A2 should go to medic because it's the SA80's little brother and quite similar to the MP7M and the SA80 should go to the commando because it packs a greator punch and is so much better. Some minor/major balancing and it's all good. Yes I do kind of think the EBR should go to commando because people treat it like an assault rifle and it seems more tactical, meanwhile the SCAR feels more like a battle rifle/sniper rifle.
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You know something, your not that bad of a guy. I like your suggestions and the way you so strongly protect and support then. You would make an excellent lawyer and decision maker.
What.
The SA80 is the L22A2 and the L85A2. I wouldn't want to see an L85A2 added again, since it's very similar to the L22A2, and both would do similar damage aswell. Although I do agree with moving the L22A2 to the medic, since it is alot more compact.
L98A1 for Commando ffffffffff-
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I have just one or two little ideas here.
1: Would adding more recoil to M14EBR make people spend a little more time aiming instead of spamming? I mean, if just rapid spamming of bullets from the hip would cause the accuracy go out of the window it would force the players to control their rate of fire more.
Also, is it possible to modify the recoil to be reduced while using iron sights?
This might make the SS use the iron sights more, rather than spamming hip shots.
1: Would adding more recoil to M14EBR make people spend a little more time aiming instead of spamming? I mean, if just rapid spamming of bullets from the hip would cause the accuracy go out of the window it would force the players to control their rate of fire more.
Also, is it possible to modify the recoil to be reduced while using iron sights?
This might make the SS use the iron sights more, rather than spamming hip shots.
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When I meeant the SA80, I meant the L85A1:
L85A2:
Actually the L85A1 is the version made by Enfield, and is really bad quality. Stuff like mags falling out, selector switches falling off, spent rounds being deflected back into the action which caused stoppages and others.
The L85A2 is the remade version by H&K and is a lot better quality. These were made by converting existing L85A1s. The A2 version is a lot better quality, though somewhat imbalanced. The balance can be fixed by attaching the 40mm underslung GL.
EDIT: The "L85A2" in your post is actually the L22.
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Sorry I just search L85A2 and clicked a random imagine thinking that was the L22A2, and again when I meant L85A1 I meant the L98A2
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Sorry I just search L85A2 and clicked a random imagine thinking that was the L22A2, and again when I meant L85A1 I meant the L98A2
world.guns.ru said:
[url]http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm[/URL]
Just for some more info on the SA80 family of weapons.
Trying to help :IS2:
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You would make an excellent lawyer and decision maker.
decision maker.....hope so.
lawyer? law school? FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU
plus lawyers are universally hatedyeah, which is pretty much the foundation of why i presented the initial moving of the EBR. tenatively, i'd not worry about the SCAR as in whether or not it'd be a more appropriate "sniper rifle" for the SS than the EBR. in its current state it feels pretty balanced in the hands of the commando so that's something that it might not be worth the while messing with it.
actually, the SCAR really is quite balanced.....i'd love to see one thread where people are actually complaining about the gun
moving the m14EBR to the commado would balance it perfectly because it would address the only thing that is presently making it "overpowered"......the SS perk bonuses. without them, the weapon's base stats are equivilant to those of the SCAR. the applied bonuses would be the same as the SCAR since both would be commando weapons. therefore, it's completely unnessisary to tweek any of the EBR's base stats.
the SA80 (L85A1 or whatever model it is....) whatever the one in the mod is....that's the one i'd love to see brought back to fill that tier1 void should the bullpup go to the medic. how much work would it require to add? honestly i can't give specifics....the real question is would it be worth it? hells yeah it would. rest assured TW will add new content into the game and chances are you could bet on some new weapons. why not the SA80, which is a KF classic?
nothing really to balance from the weapon's standpoint. leave the base stats as is....currently the base stats would result in the bullpup being the tier2 weapon and the mp7 the tier3, at least when looking at price/firepower etc....as for the new dart attachement, it's pretty much copy paste from the mp7 that's already in the game. the newly proposed alternate darts from that medic thread, again copy paste with a minimal amout of properties being tweeked. overall there's hardly anything to test or balance.
the bullpup isn't really "nerfed", it just loses the commando bonuses, which would make sense as it'd no longer be a commando weapon. the bullpup becoming useless? news flash, not many commandos use it right now as it is. so giving it to a perk that has one, just ONE weapon available... you're telling me that you think it would become used even less? please share the logic behind this concern.
and as i already refuted that arguement, no those two adjustments will not "do just fine". people would still spam the weapon, but it'd just be slightly less effective in that bullets would exit the weapon at a bit slower of a pace and the extra ammo won't last as long. plus, the rate of fire of the weapon is already very accurate to the real weapon.....slowing it down would take away from the "semi-realistic" gunplay of weapon that helps make this game more enjoyable than other games, say L4D, where the guns are terrible. those two suggestions are just like the other proposed tweeks to the base stats of the weapon.....they are band-aids, not actual fixes.
side note, batty, could you possibly make a mutator that could see what the EBR would be like as a commando's weapon? assuming you already haven't of course.... so the base stats stay the same but instead of SS bonuses being applied, it'd be commando bonuses instead.
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I'd love to use the EBR as a commando weapon, maybe increase the commando's recoil reduction to handle using the weapon effectively or reduce the recoil on the gun itself.
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i'm thinking since the commando's recoil reduction is perfect with the SCAR, i'd imagine it'd be just fine for the M14EBR.....actually the recoil would be ever so slightly higher since under the SS perk, the SS recoil bonus is higher than the commando's bonus. but that's not a bad thing since the EBR could use just a bit more recoil
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