Which is what we said in the first place....
Yes, it is a bit abstracted (just like our artillery system is), but we are trying to make it as realistic as possible within those confines.
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Gamescon 2010 HEROES videos
- Thread starter FlyXwire
- Start date
Which is what we said in the first place....
Yes, it is a bit abstracted (just like our artillery system is), but we are trying to make it as realistic as possible within those confines.
Alright, after reading some of the articles and what they have to say about the recon plane, I'm less worried about it. However, I still hope that it's turned off by default in realism mode, and hopefully it won't be tough to find a server that's playing without it.
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Sounds good. I'm hoping on Realism servers, in order to keep the functionality, without breaking immersion too much - is that reports come in either as "blobs" as suggested before, or as numbers of enemy per grid square showing up on the map (in each grid square).
If it's a tank map, then maybe even heavy / medium / light or type of tank would be feasible.
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Shame we didn't give TW the benifit of the doubt before all the nay sayers got going.
Then we wonder why info's slow to come out.
Seems the spotter planes to be implemented in a sensible way
, I'm more interested in how we can bring it down, as I'm guessing this is a limited resource by time or numbers ? rather than a never ending supply item?
Sniper looks like an awesome class with the atributes of a riles class and a scope looks to be fairly formidable class, wonder what weakness he will given to make some kind of balance ?
Then we wonder why info's slow to come out.
Seems the spotter planes to be implemented in a sensible way
, I'm more interested in how we can bring it down, as I'm guessing this is a limited resource by time or numbers ? rather than a never ending supply item?Sniper looks like an awesome class with the atributes of a riles class and a scope looks to be fairly formidable class, wonder what weakness he will given to make some kind of balance ?
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Shame we didn't give TW the benifit of the doubt before all the nay sayers got going.
Then we wonder why info's slow to come out.
Seems the spotter planes to be implemented in a sensible way
Sensible for you maybe, but not for me.
The pure thought of something like recon planes spotting individual soldiers, even if implemented in the way hat TWI described is making my heart sink.
But that's only me.
:IS2:
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knowing how TW have done other stuff before there will be some kind of balancing to stop this being to powerfull and other things being game overpowering, we've only seen a real short demo that leaves much open to conjuction.
If RO is what we go by then there will a detrement to using this, possible as suggested planes very slow and very susceptible to small arms fire and they may only have 1 or 2, so may have to use only at key moments in battle for fear of loosing them.
same may apply to artilliery, as it now will be difficult to avoid as buildings blow up so there is less safe zones.
Maybe there even going down the dod route of granade launching rifles
The demo's were choreographed to only show us certain stuff, probaly like an ice breg 80% underneath we've yet to see.
we never saw the artilliery from the recieving side, wonder what kinda warning you get, expect you'll certainly hear shells in coming
If RO is what we go by then there will a detrement to using this, possible as suggested planes very slow and very susceptible to small arms fire and they may only have 1 or 2, so may have to use only at key moments in battle for fear of loosing them.
same may apply to artilliery, as it now will be difficult to avoid as buildings blow up so there is less safe zones.
Maybe there even going down the dod route of granade launching rifles
The demo's were choreographed to only show us certain stuff, probaly like an ice breg 80% underneath we've yet to see.
we never saw the artilliery from the recieving side, wonder what kinda warning you get, expect you'll certainly hear shells in coming
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It doesn't matter how well implemented it may be, it is and stays an absolute bs feature in my opinion. Implementing an unrealistic feature and trying to make it somewhat realistic isn't going to change the fact that it's an unrealistic feature.
The benefit of doubt applies when worried about balance, not when being worried about the core nature of the feature.
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So by the same token, we shouldn't have artillery either then. We do abstract some things due to this being a game.
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Implementing an artillery strike that definitely was available to platoon-company sized units is a different thing than implementing a recon plane that is very unlikely to be available to a platoon-company sized unit and can't even ID tanks if they have no markings (flags, white crosses on soviet tanks), let alone infantry.
As I'm saying, it's not the abstract implementation of the communication, it's the very nature of that feature that's unrealistic.
Sure, recon aircraft probably did warn combat units of large formations of approaching tanks and infantry, but this was done in the open countryside, as it is nearly impossible to see infantry in an urban environment, even with modern equipment such as thermal optics it's hard.
The chance that anything as portrayed in HoS happened are immensely small, but this doesn't mean it didn't happen
To quote someone from Battlefront.com here
As already pointed out, it's not a question of how it is implemented, it is a question of what is realistic, makes sense and did happen often enough.
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Interesting read
But I must say that I still don't find it such a bad idea. It might be a bit odd at the beginning but I am sure most people will just play and play for hours until they unlock the commander slot and play with planes and rockets.
If you want a realistic game but also sell a lot of copies you will have to make some compromises and follow the way most games go in some sense. I find that a game with Ost's gameplay but with much improved graphics would be better than the upcoming CoD or MoH but most players would not even give the demo a try for lacking many features that have been common the last few years. So the solution is to give them those same features but wrapped in a more realistic and limited manner. Then you will have lots of people saying: "Hey d00d I found this awesome game that gives you the same stuff CoD and much more (1rst person cover-adjustable sights), noobtubes excluded!" At least that's kinda what I said last year when I found out about RO in that steam sale. And if I remember correctly that sale brought a crap load of new players in RO, now imagine what HoS can do with all the improvements it has...
But I must say that I still don't find it such a bad idea. It might be a bit odd at the beginning but I am sure most people will just play and play for hours until they unlock the commander slot and play with planes and rockets.
If you want a realistic game but also sell a lot of copies you will have to make some compromises and follow the way most games go in some sense. I find that a game with Ost's gameplay but with much improved graphics would be better than the upcoming CoD or MoH but most players would not even give the demo a try for lacking many features that have been common the last few years. So the solution is to give them those same features but wrapped in a more realistic and limited manner. Then you will have lots of people saying: "Hey d00d I found this awesome game that gives you the same stuff CoD and much more (1rst person cover-adjustable sights), noobtubes excluded!" At least that's kinda what I said last year when I found out about RO in that steam sale. And if I remember correctly that sale brought a crap load of new players in RO, now imagine what HoS can do with all the improvements it has...
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Interesting read
But I must say that I still don't find it such a bad idea. It might be a bit odd at the beginning but I am sure most people will just play and play for hours until they unlock the commander slot and play with planes and rockets.
If you want a realistic game but also sell a lot of copies you will have to make some compromises and follow the way most games go in some sense. I find that a game with Ost's gameplay but with much improved graphics would be better than the upcoming CoD or MoH but most players would not even give the demo a try for lacking many features that have been common the last few years. So the solution is to give them those same features but wrapped in a more realistic and limited manner. Then you will have lots of people saying: "Hey d00d I found this awesome game that gives you the same stuff CoD and much more (1rst person cover-adjustable sights), noobtubes excluded!" At least that's kinda what I said last year when I found out about RO in that steam sale. And if I remember correctly that sale brought a crap load of new players in RO, now imagine what HoS can do with all the improvements it has...
Yup, I definitely understand this.
I was simply pointing out why the "benefit of doubt" is not possible for me in this area, and also pointed out that this is not because of it being abstracted or maybe imbalanced. And it doesn't help that TWI tries to convince me that this is somewhat realistic and happened on a daily basis.
If it looks like a dog, smells like a dog and barks like a dog then it probably is a dog. If TWI make the dog meow and try to make me believe it is a cat doesn't change that fact that it still looks and smells like a dog.
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Well depending on the reinforcements for the map, it could be trying (as best as possible for 64 players) to do small battalion sized engagements (300+ per side).
And I think it's been determined the recon planes their talking about aren't high photo-recon types used in strategic situations (say to plan strategic bombing), but are the small 80-90 mph low flying liason planes.
I agree individual dots are a bit much, though. Which is why I'm hoping this will be refined a bit, as I mentioned before to either blobs or numbers on the map.
And I think it's been determined the recon planes their talking about aren't high photo-recon types used in strategic situations (say to plan strategic bombing), but are the small 80-90 mph low flying liason planes.
I agree individual dots are a bit much, though. Which is why I'm hoping this will be refined a bit, as I mentioned before to either blobs or numbers on the map.
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Looking at a silhouette is entirely different than looking at blobs from above.
Now good luck to distinguish those guys from Russians from that altitude.
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I think your opinion is clear
maybe we can conclude that you don't like it? so we don't have to read it every other post?
for me I just wait and see, I'll judge when I play it and never on a beta press demonstration
maybe we can conclude that you don't like it? so we don't have to read it every other post?
for me I just wait and see, I'll judge when I play it and never on a beta press demonstration
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IMO, the recon plane should only be able to spot tanks. Maybe other vehicles too. And perhaps static AT guns if those will be in the game, although those tend to be camouflaged. But infantry (and dead teammates, wtf?) is a big no-no for me, for the following reasons:
Disclaimer: even though I'm still quite wary of the recon plane I like the fact that it takes a while to come in and that only the squad leaders can see the dots, but I'd rather not see the feature in full realism mode.
EDIT: that Bovine Meat Sponge explanation is amusing and true.
- In most cases, the pilot would be unable to distinguish friend from foe or even see them in the first place (see LemoN's pics) due to the plane's speed or height and the fact that both Russian and German soldiers wore subdued colours.
- Even if he would be able to spot friendly and enemy troops, how on Earth would he report the EXACT position of the soldiers? I can already imagine what the radiotraffic would sound like: "One enemy to the south of the tree southwest of the church, 10 meters. One to the east of that soldier, 2 meters. And another one north-east of the building east of the church, 5 meters. Tank south of the church, 50 meters. Then 3 more soldiers directly south of that tank, 21,3 meters. There are 19 more enemies I see... hang on, this will take a while..." I'd be very surprised if pilots actually did that in WWII...
Disclaimer: even though I'm still quite wary of the recon plane I like the fact that it takes a while to come in and that only the squad leaders can see the dots, but I'd rather not see the feature in full realism mode.
EDIT: that Bovine Meat Sponge explanation is amusing and true.
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I would assume the spotter in the plane (not the pilot) might have binoculars, and be able to spot infantry from a hundred meters or more.
Weather or not they could reliably tell friend from foe on the other hand depends on how good those binocs are.
Weather or not they could reliably tell friend from foe on the other hand depends on how good those binocs are.
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