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Anti-Tank Weapons

Nightrider, these wartime drawings will round out the early-war German tank types vulnerable locations to Molotov cocktail attacks:

VULNERABLE SPOTS FOR INCENDIARY GRENADES ON GERMAN TANKS
In attacking enemy tanks at close quarters with Molotov cocktails or incendiaries, the air intakes are among the most vulnerable points. It is important, therefore, that the location of these intakes and outlets be known, as the flame and fumes of a grenade thrown against an intake while the engine is running will be sucked inside, but if the grenade lands on an outlet, they will be blown clear of the tank.
The best targets are the flat top-plates behind the turret. Side intakes are invariably protected by a vertical baffle. The accompanying sketches show the "soft spots" in German tanks Pz.Kw. 2, 3, and 4.

PzKpfwII_Molotov_Vulnerability.jpg


PzKpfwIII_Molotov_Vulnerability.jpg


PzKpfwIV_Molotov_Vulnerability.jpg
Thanks for all the awesome diagrams and descriptions. I'll have to remember these when that German player drives his PzIV down the wrong road.:cool:
 
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Ways to destroy tank

Ways to destroy tank

I haven't thought of a way to properly implement this in game yet but I was thinking of being able to destroy tanks with molotov cocktails and being able to even physically get on a tank, and be able to throw a grenade into the hatch. Maybe on a tank that's disabled. Maybe even when you're close enough to touch a tank, be able to stick your grenade into the treads to maybe a 20% chance of disabling it. Something along that idea.

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http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=626853
 
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I haven't thought of a way to properly implement this in game yet but I was thinking of being able to destroy tanks with molotov cocktails and being able to even physically get on a tank, and be able to throw a grenade into the hatch. Maybe on a tank that's disabled. Maybe even when you're close enough to touch a tank, be able to stick your grenade into the treads to maybe a 20% chance of disabling it. Something along that idea.

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http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=626853

The consensus is hatches were typically locked from the inside when entering a combat zone to stop people from throwing grenades in.

Molotovs would be cool, and are being discussed on the thread. I don't know how likely a regular grenade is to tank treads. It may depend on the tank.
 
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I haven't thought of a way to properly implement this in game yet but I was thinking of being able to destroy tanks with molotov cocktails and being able to even physically get on a tank, and be able to throw a grenade into the hatch. Maybe on a tank that's disabled. Maybe even when you're close enough to touch a tank, be able to stick your grenade into the treads to maybe a 20% chance of disabling it. Something along that idea.

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destroy tanks with molotovs?

sigh...
 
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They would be nice on urban environments from the upper floors of buildings. At least on the listed vulnerable tanks and *troop carriers* - which could also count on tank riders.

Even very useful on the SU-76 if that goes into it.

Also, TWI is putting in a much more detailed damage model. I could imagine targeting / blackening the view ports and optics.
 
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yeah, gotta love those external fuel tanks made out of flammable paper mache.



Mormegil already hinted at how it happens above. It's not as much of a problem problem really for T34's and other Soviet diesel-powered tanks, but any gasoline-powered tank in that era has a neato little thing called a carburettor.

This is the first step in the process of getting air into the engine, and it is where air and fuel are mixed together before going into the engine. A fuel / air mixture is very volatile. Further, you've got the float chamber attached to the carburettor, and it's full of gas. And then there's a fuel line going from there back to the gas tank. All this pretty well has to be near open, unless you have some kind of forced induction, for a variety of reasons that I just don't feel like explaining at the moment.

Let's just say that if you drop a molotov on top of the engine area of a PIV or a PIII then there's a good chance of it being a mobility kill, if not even a hard kill.
 
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Considering that there isn't any AT rifle really capable of living up to its name (it's more like an anti-light-skinned-vehicle-rifle), you could say that the PTRD-41 and PTRS-41 are aswell. Unless, of course, you mean terrible in a different way.

Depends on the tank, range and target. Early Panzer II and III flanks were vulnerable, as were suspenstion, optics, MG, traverse ring...
 
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So, disabling is a possibility, but really destroying a T-34/T-54 or any diesel engine tank with molotov is much, much harder than a tank with a gasoline engine.

Luckilly for the Soviets in the context of this game, German tanks did't use diesel. I don't think anybody is expecting to melt or burn a tank to the ground. Just kill the engine and maybe incapacitate the crew. With fully modeled interiors, I could imagine it full of smoke if the engine overheats or catches fire, making it hard to function.
 
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Well,

And if you throw molotovs to the crew compartment fan (not that easy to do really), the burning liquid has a possibility to end inside of the tank, which can make the life of the crew pretty hard. And the crew can panic even without any actual threat, since fire is not a nice thing, when your tank is on it.

So you could use a flamethrower for antitank purposes:confused:
 
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So you could use a flamethrower for antitank purposes:confused:

I suppose you could, but in reality, flame throwers are pretty expensive and unwieldy compared to molotovs. You must remember, Soviet distilleries were manufacturing these things by the thousands. These weren't the typical revolutionary vodka bottle filled with gasoline/petrol with a rag sticking out you had to light. These were standard bottles filled with gasoline / rubber to make sticky / other volatiles, attached with a paper packet of ignition chemicals that spontaneously combust when exposed to the gasoline (after smashing on the target).
 
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Molotovs don't really get much of a mention outside of Stalingrad due to being a pretty damn specific weapon that is really only useful in urban environments where you have the time to set a bunch of bottles up all ready to go.

Anti tank rifles were pretty useless even from the first days of the war. Even with a penetration about the best you can hope for is taking out a crew member or getting real lucky and setting some ammo cooking. On light skinned vehicles like half tracks they could be useful for putting the engine out of action.

I also like that soviet literature on how to take down a Tiger tank from FlyXwire, that is some positive thinking right there.

Here are some quotes from 'Germany's Tiger Tanks Book 3 - Tiger I & II combat tactics' by Thomas Jentz (An ex-girlfriend bought me this book, cost over $100...)

South of Krassnyl Bor from 19th to 31st March 1943 -

"The enemy doesn't have anything to oppose us of equal value to the Panzer VI. Not more than four Tigers were in operation at the same time. In open terrain these few Tigers totally dominated the battlefield. The Tigers knocked out 160 enemy tanks altogether..."

In the month of March the unit scored 48 kills with zero of their own tanks lost although three crew were taken casualty.

Another quote in relation to fighting near Rostov on the Don river in 1943 -

"During further development of the battle, Leutnant von Koerber was shot in the head while he was looking out of the commander's cupola to gain contact with the infantry. Two other Panzers of this Zug fell out due to anti-tank rifles"

There is some nice evidence of anti tank rifles managing to knock out some Pz. IIIs which are very similar to the Pz IV that will appear in Heroes of Stalingrad. It goes on to mention that those knock outs were down to crew injury, not mechanical damage from the anti tank rifles. One Pz. III took three crew wounded for example.
Also another example of computer games sometimes getting it right, whenever a person pops their head out of a tank in any FPS I've played they immediately get a bullet planted in it from some sniper.

"One Tiger headed south, climbed over the rail line, and destroyed four anti-tank guns and several drawn vehicles by running over them."

Tehehe.

This is probably one of my favourite sources for how tough Tigers were -

"After a short artillery preparation, the Kampfgruppe started to attack at 0900 hours. Far in front of the slowly following Panzer-Kompanie from Panzer-Regiment 20. In spite of heavy enemy defensive fire from tanks and anti-tank guns the Tigers reached the Kolchose and pushed into the compound. The enemy pulled back to the east. By running over them, the Tigers destroyed enemy infantry weapons of all types.
One Tiger had to return because of transmission trouble. A shot grazed Leutnant Zabel's head and he also pulled back because his weapons were knocked out by hits. As night fell, the Kampfgruppe broke off contact with the enemy and turned back to Sapadnyj. Proof of the toughness of the opponent's defense is the fact that just on the Tiger of the Zug leader, over 250 hits of all types were counted (ten 7.62 cm anti-tank gun, 14 4.5 cm anti-tank gun and the rest anti-tank rifle).

So yeah no knock outs but the Russian's followed their training to the letter and managed to destroy everything destroyable on the tanks such as weapons and vision ports.
 
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This is probably one of my favourite sources for how tough Tigers were

Oh, interesting...

OK stay calm everyone, we have another KT fanboy here, usual stuff, he will be banned and executed shortly.

May the :IS2: be over him.



Edit: Forgot to mention, quite interesting read. Finally we have a proper topic and the STG44 one seems to be dying.
 
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