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Tactics What do commandos do when a scrake/FP appears?

Now, I have not played KF for a LONG time. Before the patch with demolitions and level 6 perks. However, back when I DID play level 5 Commando I would equip a Chainsaw and a Bullpup.

Chain Alt-fire Scrake with the chainsaw would stun him until he died. Was made even easier when they introduced the Katana as you didn't even had to alt fire to stun it.

Fleshpounds, at least back then, had a weakness when they preformed a melee attack on you (or someone else). Right when they expose the top of their head you could decapitate it. It was rather tricky to pull off without enraging him. Best chance was to use a low damage per attack but fast rate of fire weapon, such as the Bullpup for Commando or normal attack with Chainsaw as a Berserker. Medics would kill it by kiting. Enrage it. Take one hit which would remove his enrage. Kite it, heal up. And enrage it again. Firebugs would set it it on fire and kite it. It would eventually fall down dead without ever enrage. Support specs would utilize the fact fleshpounds take extra damage from explosives. Shotgun until it enrage, unload nades before he charge and finish it off with hunting shotgun at point blank.

Not sure if flesh pounds got changed since then though :)
 
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You can no longer decap Fleshpounds like before. Only thing you can do now is kill it with focus fire, Let Crossbow/M14 guy kill it, or blow it up with explosives.

Scrakes, you can kill with Axe/Chainsaw/Katana if you have on of those, stun lock will render them harmless. As level 6 commando, you can probably kill them with your main weapons taking little damage as long as you have some distance. Shoot it with an assault rifle(Bullpup/AK/Some SCAR) until scrake is around half hp but not raged, reload, then pull out a SCAR and pump lead into it's head. If it doesn't die through that, pull out your other weapon and finish it off.
 
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You can easily take out a scrake with scar and being level 5-6 by just unloading into his head. If you have enough time for a quick reload you can even take them out with a AK being level 6. As for Fp's of course leave them for someone with a xbow or m14, and then if they get pissed and dont die only shoot them when they are ripping your teammates apart and not you =)
 
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You can also still stun-kill a scrake with a katana and use your bullpup (or AK if you prefer that) to clear up minions... and even get a 5kg scar (for extra ammo and more firepower... against sirens... husk too i guess).

Troubles me that you need to be a sharpshooter to solo a 6 player hard/suicidal fp though. Commando used to be a class that could take on all zeds solo if your aim was good, even in 6 player hard.

Wait a minute, if you cant decapitate fp. How does Berserker solo fp now days?!

...or are berserkers only used to stun lock scrakes now? (that seem a bit pointless, almost like a waste of team space even).
 
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I got to Lv. 6 commando this past weekend, and I still find myself relatively useless against FP's and scrakes. Granted, if I spot a scrake from far away I can usually take it down in time (assuming there aren't too many lower level specimens charging at me), but what do I do against FP's?

At first I tried the same tactics that I did with the scrake - try my best to headshot it with auto-fire on from a medium distance, but that proved entirely ineffective. I don't do nearly as much damage to it as I do to practically anything else.

Should I just abandon FP's and let sharpshooters handle them?

let me answer the question on the title: they piss their pants and pray for mercy :D

Support specialist on the other hand blow em away and ask for more :)
 
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Because if you want to survive once your entire team dies you need to be sharpshooter. Which is stupid. Now, i do play sharpshooter most of the time - but i do like playing command (or other perks) as well.

I used to be able to solo 6 player hard runs as pretty much any perk as they all had their own ways of dealing with all different zed types in the game (even if berserkers and sharpshooters were better/more econmical/more safe bet for killing scrake and fleshpounds - stun killing with alt fire chainsaw+primary chainsaw fire decapitate as berserker and crossbow headshots + crossbow headshots as sharpshooter)


Have crossbows been buffed or have fleshpounds been nerfed?

Since a level five sharpshooter (highest rank at the time) needed two crossbow bolts and two-three handcannon rounds to bring down a six player hard fleshpound solo. A berserker would need six crossbow bolts to do the same (or simply just decapitate a fp with his chainsaw...)

It is really hard to land more than two (one to enrage him and the second while he is still standing still). Might land a third once he is up in your face - but six....??

Guess you can hit him two-three times. Let it hit you once so he drop enrage. Heal up and shoot him with three more bolts.

Not really efficient though :D
 
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Because if you want to survive once your entire team dies you need to be sharpshooter. Which is stupid.
I don't know about you but soloing 200+ zeds because my team sucks *** is anything but fun so I'd rather die than kiting them for the next 30 minutes.
So how about making sure your team survives?
The commando happens to be great at that because he eats all the smallfry for breakfast.

Since a level five sharpshooter (highest rank at the time) needed two crossbow bolts and two-three handcannon rounds to bring down a six player hard fleshpound solo. A berserker would need six crossbow bolts to do the same (or simply just decapitate a fp with his chainsaw...)
What're you talking about?
2 bolts to the face do the trick. For a 6 player hard FP at least.
 
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... I'd rather die than kiting them for the next 30 minutes.
Doesn't really take 30 minutes to finish off a wave. Except if you think about really far back when you could kite fleshpounds without them ever enrage as long as you didn't hurt them too fast? (glad they fixed that).

Actually i liked the feeling I got when i used to pull it off. More adrenaline. Bigger challenge. Constant knowledge that if you made the wrong turn at the wrong moment you would have a really hard time to recover. Keep you on your toes etc.

Hard to explain... but it was really satisfying to run around as a commando killing all stalkers + decapitating bloats and fleshpounds with your bullpup, handcannon to one shot crawlers to save ammo and 7-8 bullets to kill a siren - and Katana for killing clots, gorefasts (to save ammo) and stunlocking scrakes.

Guess after this patch I would probably exchange the handcannon for a SCAR though.

What're you talking about?
2 bolts to the face do the trick. For a 6 player hard FP at least.
This is what I am talking about.

Did crossbow get a buff or did fleshpound get a nerf?


Crossbow used to deal 300 damage per bolt with a x6 head shot multiple.
Level 5 sharpshooters did 50% extra crossbow damage and 50% extra headshot damage for a total of
300*1.50*6*1.5 = 4050 damage per head shot.

Fleshpounds take only half damage from all sources except explosives, which cut the damage down to 2025 per bolt.

A six player hard fleshpound used to have little more than 4500 hp.

Any other perk would only deal 300 * 6 = 1800, cut down to 900 damage - or little more than 5 bolts (ie 6).



Did crossbow get a buff or did fleshpound get a nerf?
 
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Did crossbow get a buff or did fleshpound get a nerf?
This is ancient news. Where have you been?
We're on the verge of a new patch that changes everything up again you know.

Also the headshot hitboxes got fixed is what happened.
That and you don't need to do 100% damage to a ZED to take its head off.
Notice how the health of bloats suddenly halve when their head gets shot off?
That + the xbow damage is what kills pounds, I think.
 
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This is ancient news. Where have you been?
Told ya, I have not played for a long time :)

Also the headshot hitboxes got fixed is what happened.
Ya, remember they were a bit funky. Had to aim between a scrake head and his shoulder [in mid air] to hit is headshot hitbox :p

That and you don't need to do 100% damage to a ZED to take its head off.
That was the same before as well. You could use a 9mm or a bullpup bullet to decapitate a six player suicidal bloat. That is less damage done than 2% of his total HP.

Notice how the health of bloats suddenly halve when their head gets shot off?
when a zed get decapitated he take additional damage based on his current total health. This is why a single bullpup bullet deal an insane amount of damage when it decapitate a bloat compared to if it hit the body. Was this way back when I played as well. I personally data mined the SDK for most of the game mechanics.

That + the xbow damage is what kills pounds, I think.
Ahh! I know what it is now :)

Fleshpounds used to be immune to decapitations (except when preforming his melee animation). So in the passed you had to deal so much damage that you would outright kill the fleshpound (ie more than 4500hp to a hard six player fp).

All zeds are (or were) instantly decapitated even with the weakest of attacks as long as it hit the headshot hitbox. Unless they had the "hardened head" flag (scrake, siren and now also fleshpounds!). If they had a hardened head you need to deal quite a lot of damage on your head shot if this was the first attack that hit - or you could hurt the target before you land your head shot.

This is why, for example, you can't decapitate a siren with your first bullpup bullet - but in some situations you can decapitate a siren before she instantly dies (so that she bleed out - she cant scream while she bleed out, but she can claw you in melee range).

Interesting :)
 
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This means you can probably use any high powered weapon to decapitate a flesh pound once he is hurt enough (i have to go back and check my notes when i get home).

This also means most perks have ways to deal with a fleshpound. Medics, Berserkers and Sharpshooters kill it with the crossbow (actually, seem as if a lot of sharpshooters use the sniper rifle instead). Commando could possible decapitate it with his SCAR.

Shotgun pellets can decapitate, but they deal quite little damage per pellet - then again, fleshpounds are also weak to explosive damage - so I guess support specs and demolitions can blow them up.

Firebugs might be **** out of luck though as fire can not decapitate and they still does not have a firebug specific 4kg off weapon. Guess they still pack dual handcannons.... ? Fire do "stun" or "disorient" the fleshpound now and then though, which buy the team time to body block it and the victim to get some more distance. So they are not useless.
 
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Downloaded the SDK and did some new data mining.



If the attack have a x1.5 or higher head shot multiplier (Crossbow, LAR (x2.0), Shotgun (x1.5) and M14 - i just checked, it deal x2.0 headshot damage like LAR) and hit the head it doesn't do half damage, it do 75% damage.

Frag deal double damage. Pipe bombs as well.

79 and 32 nades deal 25% extra damage.

...all other weapons deal half damage.



And it now seem as if all zeds have specific head health. Default is 25 health, modified by number of players (default 25% for each additional player except the first - it is less for gorefast, husk and siren) and difficult setting (x0.5 for beginner, x1.0 for normal, x1.35 for hard and x1.75 for suicidal).

Husk and siren have base 200, scrake 650 and FP have 700.

So a six player hard FP have 700 * 1.35 *(1+5*0.25) = 2126 life

if crossbow have not changed (mental note: have to check that too) it still deal 300 * 6 head shot damage = 1800. FP take 75% from head shots that have equal or more head shot multiplier than x1.5 which bring it down to 1350.

1350 times two > 2126; two head shots are enough to kill a six player hard fleshpound with crossbow for a none sharpshooter perk.
 
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Rank 6 sharpshooter with EBR deal 100 * 1.6 * 2.0 * 1.5 = 480 per head shot - or 360 vs fleshpounds.

A rank 6 sharpshooter kill a six player hard fleshpound with six bullets to the head using EBR.

Rank 6 Commando using SCAR deal 75 * 1.5 * 1.1 = 124 per head shot or 62 vs fleshpounds (50% since SCAR does not have a x1.5 head shot multiplier). 113 per body shot or 56 vs fleshpounds.

A rank 6 Commando kill a six player hard flesh pound with 35 bullets to the head or 82 bullets to the body (body got more health than head). Ouch.

Too bad bullpup isn't 4kg. Would have rawked to use bullpup+crossbow :)
 
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The bullpup is 4.42kg.
The AK47 weighs 4.3kg unloaded, so i'm going to assume it's about 4.5-4.8kg loaded.
The SCAR weighs 3.58kg
I mean in-game, where bullpup weight 6, ak 6 and scar 5.

with a crossbow you only have 4 kg left (handcannon(s)- sharpshooter, that medic smg- medic, that first demo nade launcher- demolitions or katana- berserker).

commando and firebug don't have a 4kg weapon they can use together with crossbow. so both commando and firebug are kinda weak against fleshpounds.
 
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You can no longer decap fps like before. True. But you can still decap fps.

When I was playing solo sucidual fleshpound mutator, I use xbow as a ss. On wave 1, I shoot a bolt which pass through about 4-5 (not sure) fps and hit one of the fp's head. His head is removed and he rages. As he has no head left for me to shoot, I was instant killed by it....

Also, if you try to use 9mm to head shot a fp on easy, his head will also comes off and he is not dead.

Here's what I know after playing kf for such a long time. First of all, only melee weapons can remove a scrake's head and siren will never live without her head. I would say removing a head cause around 40% dmg of the total health of the zed. And, if a shot can do enough dmg to cause a zeds' health drop below 50%(including the decap dmg), a zed will decap even at full health. If the shot dmg + decap dmg is more than the full health of a zed, you can one-shot it.

This can explain why a zed has half health left but die by a single head shot. And it seems if a shot that can reduce the health of the zed to 50% lower (including the decap dmg), then you can decap a zed.

However, I dont know why a non-ss can one shot a 6man suicidual scrake using xbow giving the head health of scrake is 2559 and total health is 6125. In fact I don think the head health is accurate. As a zerker soloing suicidual feshpound, I shot a xbow bolt to his head, it requires TWO more alt fire of the katana to cut his head off. A one man suicidual fp only has 1225 head health. Xbow do at least 900 (some one say zbow can do 75%, but I'm not sure) one alt fire of 6lv zerker at least do 210*2*1.1= 462 dmg, 900+462=1362, but a fp's head will not comes off.
 
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I mean in-game, where bullpup weight 6, ak 6 and scar 5.

with a crossbow you only have 4 kg left (handcannon(s)- sharpshooter, that medic smg- medic, that first demo nade launcher- demolitions or katana- berserker).

commando and firebug don't have a 4kg weapon they can use together with crossbow. so both commando and firebug are kinda weak against fleshpounds.

Oh, i see. I was just stating facts i found. :eek:

Carry on.
 
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