Enfield L85 Suggestion

[Holy_Colt]

Many people will say that this has been tested already, but to be honest the setup for the commando class could use another rifle to help itself out, or a SMG for that matter. The fact pertains to the L22 (Bullpup) that just about everyone despises. One way to make everyone happy would be to simply change the L22 model into a pistol caliber weapon such as an MP5,P90,Sterling. Due to the current L22's unbelievable inaccuracy it would be realistic. However I'm not saying that we need to remove the bullpup whatsoever since its ironically the only British weapon on the game. But rather mess with the weapons configurations to make it similar to its KF 1.0 Brother the L85. Resolving the issue of balance would be easy, as to make the reload time a little longer, by 1 second, and making it accurate but weak as it currently is. And slapping a SUSAT scope on it to give it that touch. Since the only difference in modeling is the grip it wouldn't be a unrealistic project.

Simply turn this:

Into This:

Already 75% of the model is done so all that would remain is to model a smg too replace the the current L22 which I will leave to the modelers' imagination. Don't take my word for it tell everyone what you think of it.

The difference between the L85 and its brother the L22 are close but offer greater options to the Killing Floor game play.

L85:
-Longer barrel, resolving the weight caparison of the SCAR
-Real Life Rifle of the British/Commonwealth armies
-Gives the impression of a rifle rather than an smg
-A classic weapon from the original Mod

~Continued~

Many questions will arise from this post alone and I hope that I can answer some before they are asked again. Its time for Point Counter-Point! (All questions and remarks are paraphrased for easy reading)

Argument:It's useless to replace weapons with something else.

Counter: This is to not replace, but to instead even out the L22 to allow another weapon to be added.

Argument: The bullpup isn't supposed to snipe, so why now?

Counter: The AK and SCAR have a better accuracy rate than the L22, the bullpup needs to have an advantage for it to be effective in combat.

Argument: The bullpup isn't inaccurate, Ive hit targets from afar before.

Counter: Contrary to previous, it has a very nonconsecutive hit pattern and while on occasion it misses the target, this should not happen because of the rifles nature as a "bullpup"

Argument: We have no use for a SUSAT scope in CQC game play

Counter: The SUSAT will be an adaptation of the red-dot sight from the SCAR and will sport its own arrow aperture rather than the red dot. The zoom will be the same as the others.

Argument: What does adding a smg have to do with the bullpup?

Counter: In order to add a new smg the bullpup must first shoot like a rifle that way the two won't act like smgs.

Argument: The commando perk is just fine. It doesn't need any additions or modifications.

Counter: Yes and no, even if the smg isn't added to the commando there are other perks that could benefit from this.

Argument: What use could an smg give us that the L22 couldn't?

Counter: Depending on the weapon model, a MP5 could potentially have a torch offering a counter to the Benelli M3 as well as a stronger option to the MP7

~Be sure to check back and leave your feedback on what is missing or what should be added.~
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[HaTeMe]

Imo its rather pointless posting these topics about replacing weapons with something else, because I think we all know Tripwire isnt going to do it. They might add new ones, but its never a good idea replacing old ones nor removing them. While some people might not like the current bullpup, Im sure there are some people who do and dont want it to be changed. Personally I dont care tho, anything new is always refreshing.

Someone could of course try creating this model and putting it in game as a mutator, thats the best way to get Tripwires attention.

 

[Holy_Colt]

Absolutely. The idea is to not replace the bullpup but to instead change how it works, as well as add a weapon in the process. It is basically an easier way of allowing the addition of a tier 1 weapon for commando (smg) and keeping the bullpup. I'm simply trying to see this from a prospective of less effort with some attempt involved. And as far as the actual rifle is concerned, it has changed a lot from its original mod version so some minor cosmetics shouldn't be as extreme as a completely different weapon.

 

[dextronaut]

 

[CandleJack]

Candle likes

 

[9_6]

You lost me when you said that everyone despises the bullpup.

 

[mamoo]

The fact pertains to the L22 (Bullpup) that everyone despises. One way to make everyone happy would be to simply change the L22 model into a pistol caliber weapon such as an MP5,P90,Sterling. Due to the current L22's unbelievable inaccuracy it would be realistic.

Since when did the L22 have bad accuracy, you know just because it's fully automatic doesn't mean you have to fire continuously at something, use it in bursts or semi-auto.

 

[nutterbutter]

You lost me when you said that everyone despises the bullpup.

No kidding. I LOVE THE BULLPUP. Incredibly accurate. No recoil. Lots of ammo. Long, long, long time firing while the trigger is depressed. Just about seamless transition bringing up the sight. When I play commando (And I'll add I have all 65 achievements and all perks at lvl 6 ) the bullpup is my primary weapon on hard and suicidal.

Love the bullpup.

 

[dogbadger]

i like the sa80/L85 but that said i think the sterling would have been a logical and brilliant addition.
however unfotrunately the devs weren't - and 3rd parties aren't - interested.

 

[Holy_Colt]

You lost me when you said that everyone despises the bullpup.

Excuse my poor wording, however I will point out that many gamers do in fact hate the bullpup due to its weak damage. Which doesn't necessarily mean that I don't use it.To be honest I use the bullpup whenever I can even if I'm not commando. The fact is that Ive examined this weapon closely, used it countless times in every difficulty, and in every situation. With that said I have found that even on semi I've often hit targets and allies over 5 feet off centre. It is this wandering zero that perplexes me and makes me question its accuracy as well as other reasons. The bullpup is undermined as a weapon and believe that a small revision would bring some more people back into the game.

 

[EricFong]

Excuse my poor wording, however I will point out that many gamers do in fact hate the bullpup due to its weak damage. Which doesn't necessarily mean that I don't use it.To be honest I use the bullpup whenever I can even if I'm not commando. The fact is that Ive examined this weapon closely, used it countless times in every difficulty, and in every situation. With that said I have found that even on semi I've often hit targets and allies over 5 feet off centre. It is this wandering zero that perplexes me and makes me question its accuracy as well as other reasons. The bullpup is undermined as a weapon and believe that a small revision would bring some more people back into the game.

Hell no, i love that gun as Medic, good for keeping crawler away from my teammate ***.

 

[Holy_Colt]

I must not be getting this through correctly. the concept is to NOT remove the bullpup, but to add a smg. It is within the process of it to modify the bullpup to perform better. Everyone seems to think that I'm attempting to rid KF of the only British gun. I will explain my reasoning.

To start off the current layout for the commando is 3 weapons. If you've used them you can already see that the SCAR has the highest damage as well as accuracy, the AK is in between as an all around medium weapon, and the bullpup has a cocktail of highs and lows. The current can be said for below.

L22 British Bullpup
Advantages:
High capacity (40 rounds, 50 max)
High RPM (around ~700 rpm
Holographic sights (very easy sight picture)
Fast reload (~3 seconds
Disadvantages:
Medium-low accuracy (compared to the SCAR)
weak damage (60% per shot)
Ammo can deplete easily if solely relied upon
Weighs more than SCAR

What many will question first is the logic of using only a L22 and second its weight. The Bullpup being an extremely general name for the rifle is supposed to be compact Aside from the fact that the weight system isn't supposed to make scene the barrel/handguard extension would make a more realistic impression.

Now if a new smg such as an MP5 (for example) were to be added the setup would benefit the bullpup as to make it even more popular while not making it a Godly weapon.

SMG (MP5)
Weighs 5 Blocks
Advantages:
High capacity (40 rounds, 50 max)
High RPM (around ~750 rpm)
Holographic sights ( used off of L22 Model)
Fast reload (fast as current L22)
Torch attachment
Disadvantages:
low accuracy (higher than MP7, right under current L22)
weak damage (40% per shot)
Ammo can deplete easily if solely relied upon

L85 British Bullpup (New)
weighs 6 Blocks
Advantages:
Medium capacity (45 rounds max)
High RPM (around ~600 rpm
SUSAT Sight (Accuracy dependent)
Medium-Fast reload (Bolt release animation needed to add 1 second)
High accuracy (Higher than SCAR)
Disadvantages:
weak damage (Same)
Ammo Stock (Same)
Weighs more than SCAR (Same)

As you can see the new setup wouldn't waste a single part off the current model including the holographic sight. This would allow a balance that would make every weapon in this class important depending on the situation. SMG is good for its rate of fire in close quarters battle as well as its weight, the L85 is good for taking out the targets from afar, AK to be honest is fine as it is an all around medium for the class, and the SCAR is good for taking out those larger foes.
The only true modeling issue is the scope which would be similar to the red dot sight in respect to its shape, however an external design and a different aiming aperture on the inside would make the difference.

 

[9_6]

I still do not comprehend what this would be good for?
The commando is balanced right now.
Stay the hell away with adding a new gun or "repairing" the existing ones.
They're fine.

As for the bullpups inaccuracy, maybe you're trying to shoot targets that are well out of its supposed range?

 

[Rudo]

L85 for medic. Give him some love, for that little Mp7 isn't even worth anything but the cheap price :l

 

[Holy_Colt]

By all means the current bullpup acts too much like a smg which is why one should exist. I simply thought putting it into a combat oriented class would make scene. However having an smg available to team mates would be useful for those dark room situations.
So far some people seem to be extremely pessimistic about updating this rifle yet everyone wants updates. I'm trying to make some progress and need help with this. To say that nothing should be changed would be the kiss of death to any mod or game. This small change however would be perfectly within the guidelines of doable as I took my time to research realistic weapons of the UK police and military so far the MP5 would be a prospective candidate, but in order to do so the bullpup would need a small boost. I understand that some of us like the bullpup, and so do I. We keep the old weapons such as the Winchester, the bullpup, and the hunting shotty because of its place in the old mod and still use it effectively today. Yes we need to remember the past mod that made this what it is, but to add a weapon that isn't as hard core or unrealistic as an M14 should be much easier than this. Fresh and new things bring in more gamers. While we're comfortable with it now many will grow tired of the same setup and which is why the mod has gone through so many changes. I'm not necessarily trying to be blunt but, "To add a gun to this mod would bring change, we need to be willing to change things for the better or this mod will surely die" And we all know that.

As for the bullpups inaccuracy, maybe you're trying to shoot targets that are well out of its supposed range?

I have killed allies usually standing next to me, or in areas where the bullets aren't supposed to go, I'm not trying to snipe but one of the worlds most accurate assault rifles should be a little more accurate than an machine pistol.

It also seems that my gaming experience may be in question and in order to prove it please take a look at my game stats:

Achievements

Profile Stats

 

[Falidell]

very lovely, however i would remove the scope for a more reasonable red dot sight because your fighting in close quarters 95% of the time

 

[Holy_Colt]

very lovely, however i would remove the scope for a more reasonable red dot sight because your fighting in close quarters 95% of the time

Oops, I didn't go into detail about that. The "Sope" would resemble the SCAR's red dot sight in every respect, other than the outer casing which would look like a SUSAT. Internally the width would be the same, but the texture would be replaced by the arrow instead of the dot. This would give the weapon its uniqueness as well as keeping with the CQB standard.

 

[nutterbutter]

Now if a new smg such as an MP5 (for example)

What does adding a smg have to do with the bullpup?

were to be added the setup would benefit the bullpup as to make it even more popular while not making it a Godly weapon.

That doesn't make much sense. Adding a new weapon because everyone "despises" the old weapon will make the old weapon more popular?

As you can see the new setup wouldn't waste a single part off the current model including the holographic sight.

It is basically the same as the bullpup. Even fires the same cartridge. Other than new graphics, why?

 

[Holy_Colt]

Sorry for your confusion Nutterbutter.

What does adding a smg have to do with the bullpup?

The adding of an smg is supposed to replace the job of the bullpup as a medium to short range weapon, and put the bullpup into the longer range category.

That doesn't make much sense. Adding a new weapon because everyone "despises" the old weapon will make the old weapon more popular?

If you put some effort into changing the configuration it would be more popular instead of having 2 weapons that are similar.

It is basically the same as the bullpup. Even fires the same cartridge. Other than new graphics, why?

That is what I have been explaining, the configurations need to be changed just a tad so that there aren't 2 weapons that are close in damage and design. For the record the L22 is an assult rifle that shoots 5.56, it should be the same as an M4 carbine in comparison. Ive explained this before

Due to the bullpup's short length it is often mistaken for an smg. When I ask people what they think, I would almost always get an smg and a question mark in their reply. If you add an MP5 you would have to even out the field by making the bullpup have something to its name, say accuracy, then the weapons would even out.
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[Rainydaykid]

I don't see the bullpup as being inaccurate. I snipe enemies from across the map with a tap of the button, firing a 2 round burst. I have headshotted clots out as far as I can see them. I have sniped enemies halfway across that gladiator map or farther.