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Potential New Perk - Enter The "Dualist"

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18672

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May 2, 2010
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#1
Dualist - Look up Dualism on wikipedia.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism

A class that focuses on dual wielding - now before I make this perk sound like it's from a MMORPG - it's a idea I got today when I was eating spaghetti with one fork in each hand. [Yes, I eat spaghetti with two forks cause I'm weird like that :D]

Weapons: Focuses on dual light/medium firearms such as 9mm, handcannon, light SMGs, compact machine gun pistols.

Perk effect per level:
-Increased DMG [Only apply when Dual Wielding]
-Increased ammo capacity
-Increased clip capacity
-Reduced Weapon Prices
-Reduced Recoil
-Reduced Accuracy Penalty when dual wielding [A classic example of accuracy penalty is when a sharpshooter uses two 9mm or handcannon and finds himself/herself losing accuracy.
This link below explains accuracy decay over distance when dual wielding for all classes - Dualist will be the only exception.
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1861/accuracypenalty.jpg

Weapons [x2]:

-Standard 9mm
-Handcannon
-PP-2000
-Browning Buck Mark Contour Lite 7.25 URX
-Dual Deagles/Glocks/USP/Compact Pistols <== open for debate

The dualist's job is precision mob control and suppressive fire.
This is achieved with the handcannon for quick specimen dispatch in tight/narrow spaces such as hallways.
The light SMG: Relatively low dmg but more versatile in terms of accuracy and rate of fire. Can provide sufficient cover fire for teammates in open maps such as farm while maintaining a well balanced rate of fire & damage.
Compact Machine Gun pistol: High ammo capacity & rate of fire: lowered damage due to the size of caliber used [smaller than 9mm, anyone know what it's called?].

Advantages: Precision Crowd Control [Swiftly and Accurately pick off key targets such as Bloats, Crawlers, Clots, etc - before they crowd up and become a threat. This perk is versatile in both close quarter and ranged combat against weaker specimens such as clots, crawlers, stalkers, gorefasts, bloats and sirens.

Disadvantages: Low dmg [The dualist's main weapons are duel 9mm and light SMG and compact machine gun pistols]

Additional Notes: While the handcannon does offer significantly higher damage, it's ammo count should be limited to balance out the Dualist. Additionally, the dualist WILL NOT GAIN reduced reload time or headshot damage bonuses - instead it will gain increased ammo capacity and clip capacity.

In conclusion: The Dualist is a attempt to offer something new to Killing Floor Rookies and Veterans alike. This perk is designed to be a all around versatile support class - while it may use certain weapons from other perks, it is never intended to replace ANY of the other perks.

Update: There is a misconception that the Dualist will be able to use dual knives, medic guns and bullpup - this is NOT TRUE, I was only using the other weapons as a damage baseline for the Dualist's weapons. As stated before, the Dualist is not designed to replace ANY other perks.

Update: Brphoenix has brought to my attention that my perk is not "truly versatile" as it cannot kill stronger ZEDs. This was done intentionally as I do NOT want to create a second "sharpshooter" that can potentially solo whole waves with a 9mm and xbow. Killing Floor is a wonderful co-op survival game based on teamwork, when you take that aspect of the game away by introducing perks without limitations. This supports "Ramboing", which kills the game and the community.

Update: During my online research, I found a treasure trove of new weapon ideas via the link below. Although I am skeptical towards the accuracy & authenticity of the content on the website, it does raise interesting possibilities. There are a number of potential new weapons for a lot of Killing Floor perks; among them sleek and impressive looking light/pistol machine guns.
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://datafortress2020.110mb.com/ab/HG_Machine_Gun_Pistol_01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://datafortress2020.110mb.com/ab/submachineguns4.htm&usg=__4kI88SNU3CdOJif6gb6PxARa83Q=&h=569&w=758&sz=42&hl=en&start=10&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=e74E4ao4b3W7EM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=142&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpistol%2Bmachine%2Bgun%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rlz%3D1G1GGLQ_ENCA376%26tbs%3Disch:1

Update: Poential Dualist weapons?
[Refer to this link for caliber information. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/CartridgeComparison.jpg
Browning Buck Mark Contour Lite 7.25 URX (x2) [Unique pistol that fires low caliber .22 long rifle rounds. It has a high rate of fire with reasonable accuracy and the extended barrel length increases "Muzzle Velocity".
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=006B&cat_id=051&type_id=424

The "PP-2000" [x2] is a modern light machine gun that fires standard 9mm caliber rounds. it's compact and light construction makes it a ideal weapon of choice for the Dualist due it's low recoil, high rate of fire and portability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-2000
http://kbptula.ru/eng/str/strelk/images/pp2000_2.jpg

Dualist Symbol. Concept #1
DualistFinal.jpg


All suggestions/comments/questions are welcome.

Edited 03/05/2010 to add additional information
 
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#6
No Glory said:
=`( You guys are making me cry again.......please read my sticky before posting!
But, since you're a Junior member, I'll let it slide
Click to expand...

the guy didnt know, he told me about this idea yesterday, and i was like hey that sounds alot like the gunslinger idea, so he signed up on here to post his idea. which is very similiar to the other idea. at least its not another idea for laser weapons and whacky perks.
 
Upvote 0
#7
No Glory said:
=`( You guys are making me cry again.......please read my sticky before posting!
But, since you're a Junior member, I'll let it slide
Click to expand...

dextronaut said:
the guy didnt know, he told me about this idea yesterday, and i was like hey that sounds alot like the gunslinger idea, so he signed up on here to post his idea. which is very similiar to the other idea. at least its not another idea for laser weapons and whacky perks.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the support guys :D
 
Upvote 0
#8
Like some pointed out, it looks like the gunslinger idea. Though I'm quite the dual-wielding fan, I was not the first one to come up with this idea, but it was my thread that got the higher post count.

Yours, however, has a different approach. While I do not completely agree with you when you say versatile (imo, it lacks the punch to go against stronger zeds which then makes it truly versatile), you have a better crowd-control layout. The problem lies in that there are already two crowd-control perks (demo is weird 'bout that)

Another issue I have is this perk would have too many weapons. I count six, and three of those six encroach on other perk's weaponry (SMGs with Commando - bullpup sure acts as one | Machine pistols for Medic | Knife for 'zerker, duh)
 
Upvote 0
#9
brphoenix said:
Another issue I have is this perk would have too many weapons. I count six, and three of those six encroach on other perk's weaponry (SMGs with Commando - bullpup sure acts as one | Machine pistols for Medic | Knife for 'zerker, duh)
Click to expand...

First, I never mentioned anything about dual wielding knives - my main reason for this is because it is weightless since everyone spawns with it; therefore dual knives is not a practical idea.

Second, I'm trying to introduce new weapons; machine gun pistols/light machines guns - I never mentioned anything about dual wielding the bullpup or medic gun; they were only used as a damage baseline for the Dualist's weapons. As stated in my original thread, this perk is not designed to replace any other perks; therefore duel wielding the medic gun is obviously not going to happen.

Thirdly, when you say this perk isn't "truly versatile" because it cannot kill stronger ZEDs; that's true and I purposely designed the Dualist that way. Why? because I don't want to create a second "sharpshooter" that can potentially solo a whole wave alone with a 9m and xbow. Also, as stated before, the Dualist is a perk that excels in close quarter and ranged combat against weaker zeds, it offers accurate and quick dispatch of weaker ZEDs without creating visual distraction/handicaps such as smoke from grenades, etc.

brphoenix said:
(imo, it lacks the punch to go against stronger zeds which then makes it truly versatile)
Click to expand...

So, your definition of a "Truly Versatile" perk is one that has enough firepower to take on every ZED? I'm sorry but that is not versatile, that is unbalanced. Every perk should have a limitation, and the Dualist is no exception. Killing Floor is a wonderful game based on teamwork and when you take that aspect of the game away by introducing perks that supports "Ramboing", it kills the game and the community.
 
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Upvote 0
#13
As with the Gunslinger perk, i am in favour of this one.

While the Gunslinger focuses on accuracy, or making shots count, or just having a powerful pistol, this one excels at spamming the sh!t outta everything. It seems like the Gunslinger's little bro.

This perk seems more like a commando perk, while Gunslinger seems more like a sharpie perk, as this could potentially have a P90 or two.

Perhaps some ideas to help along your idea:
5.7mm
9mm
HC
MP5K
Jatimatic
Mac-10
Uzi
AK74 (the current AK47 is pretty much it anyway.)
P90
a MP5A2 for your light SMG idea.

I'd just like to see some of these around KF
 
Upvote 0
#14
Once again, I would like to thank everyone for all your support towards the Dualist perk.

Thanks CandleJack for your suggestions. I think the .22 long rifle [5.7mm] rounds are perfect the pistol machine guns, it's ideal for compact weapons since it provides acceptable stopping power at a high rate of fire.

Additional info on the .22 long rifle rounds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22

As for the dual light machine guns, I'm leaning towards a slightly higher caliber ammunition [probably 9mm].

The P90 is another great idea, I would love to see it implemented for the commando perk. However, it's not suitable for the Dualist mainly because Dual wielding two P90s is not realistic [although it would be awsome].

During my online research, I found a treasure trove of new weapon ideas via the link below. Although I am skeptical towards the accuracy & authenticity of the content on the website, I would do more research to verify the contents but it's currently 4am and I'm about to pass out. There are a number of potential new weapons for a lot of Killing Floor perks; among them sleek and impressive looking for light/pistol machine guns.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...um=1&hl=en&lr=&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENCA376&tbs=isch:1
 
Upvote 0
#16
18672 said:
First, I never mentioned anything about dual wielding knives - my main reason for this is because it is weightless since everyone spawns with it; therefore dual knives is not a practical idea.
Click to expand...

It was there before you edited it out. Now that you did, and pretended you have never said it, it makes me look like an idiot.

18672 said:
Second, I'm trying to introduce new weapons; machine gun pistols/light machines guns - I never mentioned anything about dual wielding the bullpup or medic gun; they were only used as a damage baseline for the Dualist's weapons. As stated in my original thread, this perk is not designed to replace any other perks; therefore duel wielding the medic gun is obviously not going to happen.
Click to expand...

Neither did I. What I did say, is that SMGs are commando's territory for weaponry (because the Bullpup behaves like one), and machine pistols are medic's territory (Because the MP7 is more of a machine pistol). I haven't said anything about wielding those.

18672 said:
Thirdly, when you say this perk isn't "truly versatile" because it cannot kill stronger ZEDs; that's true and I purposely designed the Dualist that way. Why? because I don't want to create a second "sharpshooter" that can potentially solo a whole wave alone with a 9m and xbow. Also, as stated before, the Dualist is a perk that excels in close quarter and ranged combat against weaker zeds, it offers accurate and quick dispatch of weaker ZEDs without creating visual distraction/handicaps such as smoke from grenades, etc.
So, your definition of a "Truly Versatile" perk is one that has enough firepower to take on every ZED? I'm sorry but that is not versatile, that is unbalanced. Every perk should have a limitation, and the Dualist is no exception. Killing Floor is a wonderful game based on teamwork and when you take that aspect of the game away by introducing perks that supports "Ramboing", it kills the game and the community.
Click to expand...

The sharpshooter can deal anything, yes. But, the reason it is overpowered is the obnoxious damage and reload bonuses it has, and the critical multiplier damage for headshots. The problem nowadays is that people hear "can handle anything" and instantly assume it is a sharpshooter 2. It is not that way.
The gunslinger perk lacks the headshot damage multiplier, balancing the 9mm and handcannon, doesn't have weapons with ridiculously high headshot multipliers, and its more powerful weapon (presumably the one you'll use to take down FPs and Scrakes) has a 60
 
Upvote 0
#17
brphoenix said:
It was there before you edited it out. Now that you did, and pretended you have never said it, it makes me look like an idiot.
Click to expand...
The knife was mentioned, however never intended to be a dual wielded weapon. I took it out to avoid further misinterpretation. I apologize if this upset you, do note that it was never my intent to make anyone "look like an idiot".

brphoenix said:
Neither did I. What I did say, is that SMGs are commando's territory for weaponry (because the Bullpup behaves like one), and machine pistols are medic's territory (Because the MP7 is more of a machine pistol). I haven't said anything about wielding those.
Click to expand...
I thank you for bringing that up, I've always suspected it as a potential issue for the Dualist. I've put much thought into this and I've decided I'm going to change one of the Dualist's perk effect. Dualist will only gain damage bonuses when dual wielding - since the bullpup and medic gun won't and shouldn't be dual wield weapons, this effectively takes care of that issue. Additionally, the same could be said regarding Gunslingers since revolvers are pistols to some degree - which sharpshooters use.

brphoenix said:
The sharpshooter can deal anything, yes. But, the reason it is overpowered is the obnoxious damage and reload bonuses it has, and the critical multiplier damage for headshots. The problem nowadays is that people hear "can handle anything" and instantly assume it is a sharpshooter 2. It is not that way.
Click to expand...
There are reasons why people would assume it's a sharpshooter; a few too many in fact. Let me ask you this, how many times have you made it through a long [10 wave] suicidal game without a single sharpshooter at some point in the game? Logic and reason tells me it's almost never, why? Because no other perk can compete with the Sharpshooter's killing efficiency against stronger ZEDs such as Fleshpounds [i.e single headshot with the crossbow].
 
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#18
18672 said:
The knife was mentioned, however never intended to be a dual wielded weapon. I took it out to avoid further misinterpretation. I apologize if this upset you, do note that it was never my intent to make anyone "look like an idiot".
Click to expand...

No problem about that.

18672 said:
I thank you for bringing that up, I've always suspected it as a potential issue for the Dualist. I've put much thought into this and I've decided I'm going to change one of the Dualist's perk effect. Dualist will only gain damage bonuses when dual wielding - since the bullpup and medic gun won't and shouldn't be dual wield weapons, this effectively takes care of that issue. Additionally, the same could be said regarding Gunslingers since revolvers are pistols to some degree - which sharpshooters use.
Click to expand...

Sharpshooter use pistols, but shouldn't.

18672 said:
There are reasons why people would assume it's a sharpshooter; a few too many in fact. Let me ask you this, how many times have you made it through a long [10 wave] suicidal game without a single sharpshooter at some point in the game? Logic and reason tells me it's almost never, why? Because no other perk can compete with the Sharpshooter's killing efficiency against stronger ZEDs such as Fleshpounds [i.e single headshot with the crossbow].
Click to expand...

People who assume the gunslinger perk is sharpshooter II haven't bothered to read the thread. Or the first post, for that matter. They mindlessly post before knowing anything.
I haven't reached wave 10 without a sharpshooter mainly because it is overpopulated. 5/6th of players use sharpshooter, and 30% of those have no idea how to use it. I have, though, reached wave 10 with one of those "sharpshooters".
 
Upvote 0
#19
brphoenix said:
People who assume the gunslinger perk is sharpshooter II haven't bothered to read the thread. Or the first post, for that matter. They mindlessly post before knowing anything.
I haven't reached wave 10 without a sharpshooter mainly because it is overpopulated. 5/6th of players use sharpshooter, and 30% of those have no idea how to use it. I have, though, reached wave 10 with one of those "sharpshooters".
Click to expand...

I don't follow your response, seems irrelevant from what I posted since I didn't mention anything about the gunslinger being sharpshooter II. I was mainly talking about sharpshooters. However, you have a point there; too many players on public servers pick sharpshooters to compete for kills by using the m14. When a fleshpound shows up, the team usually takes a hit from a unnecessary casualty/casualties due to the lack of damage.
 
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Upvote 0
#20
Just like with the gunslinger perk, people that think this is a duplication of sharpshooter have to remember that pistols are not sharpshooter weapons. Most are used to that thought and believe that "oh no, sharpshooter."

This perk has no headshot bonus and plays like something between sharp and commando. While you have the accuracy of sharp, you don't have the power. And while you have the fire rate of commando, you don't have the bullets nor the reload speed. You fill a slightly supportive roll without the mass crowd control and essentially become a "jack of all trades" without being a medic.

On top of it not being a duplicate of another perk like most idea are, it would be fun to play, balance sharpshooter, and breathe some more life into the game while being easy to introduce.
 
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