• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

The mythical balance update.

Undedd Jester

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 31, 2009
3,059
860
Sheffield, England
I've had a quick search for an actual page for this supposed balance patch we are all expecting, and there is alot of stuff scattered about in various threads, but not an actual thread dedicated to it. So I decided to make one. This is what I personally see as being the ideal balance patch update, feel free to agree, disagree or add your own ideas :)

1) Sharpshooter Nerf

The obvious 1. There have been many ideas rattling around about this for months upon months and this is how I see it. The current problems with the Sharpshooter are: -
- he is insanely powerful and can kill anything short of the Patty with the Xbow in 1 hit.
- the M14 has far too much ammo compared to its damage output, and promotes spam
- any weapon capable of critical headshots gets a very large 50% boost to its damage, only 10% short of regular damage of the correct perk for that weapon.

To solve this I would imagine the best course of action is firstly to switch his damage bonuses over (so headshot damage is 60% and his weapon damage to 50%). Then have it so any non perk weapon he uses only gets 1/2 the headshot bonus (30%). This means that on something like a scar he would only get a 30% additional headshot boost. Still something to make the scar useful, but encourage keeping the sharpshooter on the correct line of weaponry. This will also promote headshots over body shots even more.

Next I would drop the M14 EBR's spare ammo by 1/2 so wasteful firing will hurt in later rounds. It might also be worth slightly slowing its fire rate. Not by much at all, but it would probably help stop players spamming shots too fast and getting carried away.

Finally I would buff the fleshpound to be resistant to headshots, like I suggested in this thread. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=41816&highlight=balance.http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=41816&highlight=balance. As it stands the fleshpound is weak against quite alot, including headshots, explosives and doesn't fare particularly well against the SCAR and AA12. A headshots resistance buff would mean the Xbow can no longer 1 pop him, the scar wont be as effective and either make the Demo and Support more useful or make teams work together more.

2) Berserker Buff

Only thing the Berserker really needs is his chainsaw back to the way it was. Perhaps he could use a slight increase in damage resistance, but most importantly the chainsaws headshot multiplyer needs to be brought up from 0.25 to at least 1.0 if not 1.1. This would make the weapon once again useful for the Zerker, and bring him back in line with the strength of his other perks. I'm sure you all remember the devestation the Zerker used to reap :)

Also make the machete more useful, reduce its weight or make it moe powerful, or simply have it weigh 1 block and have the option to sell the knife to replace it with the machete (And have that as being the only way to sell the knife).

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=41169&highlight=machete+revivalhttp://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=41169&highlight=machete+revival

3) Firebug Buff

I used to be against the Thermal Lance idea of Temstar, but now that I've really thought about it his Thermal lance and my Blowtorch are pretty much 1 in the same in terms of its principle. However mine is slightly less overpowering and alot smaller (so it can be carried, and will be more useful for low level firebugs to get going). Here are the 2 weapon suggestions.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=535320&postcount=1http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=535320&postcount=1

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=566684&postcount=68http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=566684&postcount=68

Their use is very similar, so as a compromise, how about a fairly large blow torch/lance but still within the constraints of 4 weight blocks, that does high DPS, is cheap, great for killing individual low and mid Zeds but struggles at taking down mobs (and of course is close range.)

4) Demo/LAW buff

Make the LAW weight 13 instead of 14 so the demo can still take his Pipe bombs, and give the Demo use of it for more ammo and discount to perhaps make it a viable weapon again. You could also make fleshpounds weak to it like it is against grenades (Assuming its headshots resistance is implemented) although to keep it balanced I would probably say only have it as 1/2 a weakness, not a full weakness. I mean lets face it you will probably on have time to fire the LAW once at a Fleshpound, and if it isn't enough to kill him outright then your team needs to be ready to unload once he rages. As is no sane player would use the LAW, as its just too dangerous as a support specialist and doesn't have a big gain. Whereas if a demo can get discount, ammo and still use his pipes, it might see the weapon revived.

In terms of perk bonuses the Demo could either get reduced smoke from explosives or a faster reload on explosive weapons. I lean towards less smoke since its the main reason no one wants a demo in their team.

Thats all I can think of at the minute, I may add more to it, and refine it a little more later on. Right ow I'm gonna go to bed ;)

Tell me what you guys think :)
 
Last edited:
Next I would drop the M14 EBR's spare ammo by 1/2 so wasteful firing will hurt in later rounds. It might also be worth slightly slowing its fire rate.

Still tons of ammo and still too much damage. I agree with lowering the ammo and slowing the rate but I would also nerf the instra-kill damage of the m14 as well.

I'd also reduce the amount of scar ammo as well.

Finally I would buff the fleshpound to be resistant to headshots

Sounds good as well.


Only thing the Berserker really needs is his chainsaw back to the way it was.

Berserks make absolutely no sense to me unless FF is mandatory. Even something as low as 20%. I think a chainsaw or katana against relatively naked flesh would do a tremendous amount of damage. However, the ability for the zerker to fight always in the frickin' middle of the hallway with 5 guys shooting down that hallway and the zerker taking absolutely no damage just doesn't make sense. The zerker can be as reckless and selfish as he wants to be because he doesn't have to pay attention to anyone else. So raise his damage but take away the absolute stupidity of his ability to dodge multiple automatic weapons of which he isn't even aware.


Their use is very similar, so as a compromise, how about a fairly large blow torch/lance but still within the constraints of 4 weight blocks, that does high DPS, is cheap, great for killing individual low and mid Zeds but struggles at taking down mobs (and of course is close range.)

I'm up for the thermal lance as well as long as it is "reasonable." Give him about 6 sticks at lvl 1 (goes up 1 per level), make it so there is a slow reload like the LAW, make it a high damage single shot weapon. Now by single shot I mean it would be 10 to 15 second shot, but if the flamer switches away from that weapon at any time, it has to be reloaded.

In terms of perk bonuses the Demo could either get reduced smoke from explosives or a faster reload on explosive weapons.

I'm definitely against reducing the smoke. The launched grenade is a huge AoE weapon so it has to have an area disadvantage. The only thing that keeps people from spamming grenades up close is the smoke. Take that away and then there is no disadvantage to the weapon.
 
Upvote 0
nutterbutter said:
I agree with lowering the ammo and slowing the rate but I would also nerf the instra-kill damage of the m14 as well.

Removing the recoil bonus could do the trick. That way only people using M14 would be those who actually know how to aim properly. I doubt that's going to happen but one can keep dreaming :p

I'd rather have the launch hit blur back aswell, maybe have berserker new modifier added that reduces the amount of blur based on your perk level - even though this one's very unlikely aswell.
 
Upvote 0
Removing the recoil bonus could do the trick. That way only people using M14 would be those who actually know how to aim properly. I doubt that's going to happen but one can keep dreaming :p

I'd rather have the launch hit blur back aswell, maybe have berserker new modifier added that reduces the amount of blur based on your perk level - even though this one's very unlikely aswell.

We can dream....
 
Upvote 0
I agree highly with this thread, as most in this forum would likely given the threads for the last four or five months.

Sharpshooter Nerf
- Everyone agree it is overpowered, but there is some discrepancy as to how to fix it.

Berserker Buff- Berserker got weaker when all of the perks got stronger. The move to higher difficulties because the game got easier also put zerkers in a bad spot since they have to go toe-to-toe with specs directly.

Firebug Weapon- There has been only one FB weapon since release and the perk itself has had issues staying relevant in the current game state.

LAW thing- I disagree with this. I don't think that many people have really been clamoring for this and I doubt TWI has done anything about it. Demo already has (arguably) three weapons including pipe bombs. The LAW has really been a joke weapon since release.
 
Upvote 0
If I'm honest I was not too fussed about the demoman, although it is a perk that rarely gets played because of its obvious problems. Thats all I was trying to address, so if nothing is done about them I wont liose any sleep over it :)

My figuring is that while pipes are very effective against the FP, the nade launchers dont quite pack the necessary punch. So I was thinking that since the LAW was the original Fleshpound killer in the mod, giving it to the demoman and making the LAW more useable against the fleshie may give the demo an important purpose in the game. Especially if the fleshpound gets the headshots resistance, explosives will be its only real weakness (Lets face it, the AA12 is good but not great against the fleshies)

BUt I literally thought of all the dmeo stuff at 3 in the morning so I wouldn't take that part too seriously ;)
 
Upvote 0
Firebug Weapon- There has been only one FB weapon since release and the perk itself has had issues staying relevant in the current game state.

I disagree with that. I just spent a week playing flamer on hard and suicidal and the firebug, IMO, is still damn powerful.

LAW thing- The LAW has really been a joke weapon since release.

Yeah, pretty much. Everyone who starts playing KF looks forward to the LAW and once they get it, they think "WTF? This sucks."

To add to the nerfing of the SS, I would be for halving the bolts in the xbow as well.

Also reducing the ammo in dropped weapons to a single bolt, magazine, canister, or rocket would be great.
 
Upvote 0
I disagree with that. I just spent a week playing flamer on hard and suicidal and the firebug, IMO, is still damn powerful.
I agree, I have a lot of playing level 6 firebug, but the gameplay gets rather samey with only one weapon that you have immediately. And on suicidal the firebug is very underpowered because of ammo concerns.

For that matter very few people level firebug up to the levels were it really shines because it is so crappy to begin with -ie self-damage, one weapon, low range and ammo.
 
Upvote 0
I've had a quick search for an actual page for this supposed balance patch we are all expecting, and there is alot of stuff scattered about in various threads, but not an actual thread dedicated to it. So I decided to make one. This is what I personally see as being the ideal balance patch update, feel free to agree, disagree or add your own ideas :)

1) Sharpshooter Nerf


To solve this I would imagine the best course of action is firstly to switch his damage bonuses over (so headshot damage is 60% and his weapon damage to 50%).(Would not help) Then have it so any non perk weapon he uses only gets 1/2 the headshot bonus (30%)(Very very bad idea). This means that on something like a scar he would only get a 30% additional headshot boost. Still something to make the scar useful, but encourage keeping the sharpshooter on the correct line of weaponry. This will also promote headshots over body shots even more.(No it doesn't, it just promotes not using other weapons)

Next I would drop the M14 EBR's spare ammo by 1/2 so wasteful firing will hurt in later rounds. It might also be worth slightly slowing its fire rate. Not by much at all, but it would probably help stop players spamming shots too fast and getting carried away. (You don't need to reduce it ammo. Maybe a little but 50% less is excessive.)

Finally I would buff the fleshpound to be resistant to headshots, like I suggested in this thread. [url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=41816&highlight=balance[/URL]. As it stands the fleshpound is weak against quite alot, including headshots, explosives and doesn't fare particularly well against the SCAR and AA12. A headshots resistance buff would mean the Xbow can no longer 1 pop him, the scar wont be as effective and either make the Demo and Support more useful or make teams work together more.

The optimal solution to fix the SS is to completely remove his damage increase on anything but heads, and buff headshot damage %.
Then, reduce M14 damage so it does less than the scar.
This promotes aiming for the head or you'll be wasting ammo at an exponential rate.
 
Upvote 0
The optimal solution to fix the SS is to completely remove his damage increase on anything but heads, and buff headshot damage %.
Then, reduce M14 damage so it does less than the scar.
This promotes aiming for the head or you'll be wasting ammo at an exponential rate.

I thought of this before. Most people can hit the head easily with all sharpshooter weapons and can spam the head off a scrake and Fleshpound with the M14 anyway. Therefore changing it to headshots only helps very little.

We want the M14 nerfed, not useless.

And no, it jsut means firing more rapidly for more chance at hitting the head in the M14s case.

Point 1 and 2 currently the Sharpshooter gets a 50% bonus to any weapon that can score a headshot. This includes the Scar, Ak, Mp7. This is only 10% less than the normal bonus for a full perk. Headshots are a bonus that the Sharpshooter should have, but the sharpshooter should not get a bosst greater than half the damage anotehr class can do normally. And since they are 60%, 30% makes much more sense

Point 3
- having only a 50% bonus to a regular shot, but getting 60% extra bonus on a headshot is more an incentive than 60% with a bonus of 50%
 
Upvote 0