• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Marketing

LemoN

Grizzled Veteran
Feb 26, 2006
6,264
2,345
36
Prussotroll's Bridge
Well, as good as exclusive news etc. to small Indy websites like Vodoo 3D sound, it obviously doesn't quite cut the cake and is wasting resources.

TBH, I have yet to see the latest news spread away from V3D onto major websites.

I was just curious and used Google Trends to look up the amount of hits RO received. Heroes of Stalingrad didn't have any viable stats so I simply chose Red Orchestra.

It still is probably not a viable option because anyone will probably search for Heroes of Stalingrad and not RO, but it still worries me a bit.

ycwgo1272127550.jpg


As you can see RO received most hits in 2006 (When Ostfront was released) and has, since then, gradually decreased.

Why I did it simply was because I have, before KF, never even heard of V3D and am wondering where the news ala "NEW HoS SCREENS RELEASED ZOMGz!!!!!!" is.

Please, this is in no way a revival of the mandatory "when is it going to be released" thread or flame/troll threads, so please keep it civil here. :)
I'd simply like to discuss with fellow Ho(e)S what they think of this and would also like the mandatory dev statement saying "hype train not started, stfu" :p
 
Regarding marketing, I actually hope that TWI creates a voluntarily RO focus group similar to the nvidia focus group (but then less biased :p).

Pretty much what that means is people spreading out news about RO actively on the forums that they regularly visit. Forums for me at least are the most important source to learn about new games on the horizon. Getting people to actively advertise rohos on the forums they visit regularly can reach a nice wide audience.

Just getting some active forum advertisers (that give their real opinions rather than a skewed opinion) and keep a thread alive, could obtain super cheap advertising directly to the direct market.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Next to that I hope that twi will try to cater to competitive clan players, even though the group of clan players ain't that big they generally focus on only one multi player game at a time (for loads of hours) and are extremely vocal about that game. Making clan players generally a good target for obtaining people to use for word of mouth advertising.

Advertising/Interviews on major popular competitive websites (clanbase/esl/twl/cpl/cal/Roladder :p) can bring in entire clans to take a look at a game. And bring it into the concious mind of clanning communities. Beside being vocal, clans generally provide loads of dedicated servers and play a game on average for more hours a week.

The same pretty much for modding communities , its nice to advertise at the direct places where possible modders live. To ensure and help the general community later on with custom maps.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

of course TWI got a detailed marketing plan already set-up somewhere but those things above I would like to see.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Regarding marketing, I actually hope that TWI creates a voluntarily RO focus group similar to the nvidia focus group (but then less biased :p).

Pretty much what that means is people spreading out news about RO actively on the forums that they regularly visit. Forums for me at least are the most important source to learn about new games on the horizon. Getting people to actively advertise rohos on the forums they visit regularly can reach a nice wide audience.

Just getting some active forum advertisers (that give their real opinions rather than a skewed opinion) and keep a thread alive, could obtain super cheap advertising directly to the direct market.

As effective as this might look on paper, it's going to be hard for this community to get a foothold in the more "casual" communities like the CoD community. As awefull as this might sound, this is basically exactly what TWI want's to do. I know there are exeptions (like Craig :shrug: :p ).
 
Upvote 0
Well, as good as exclusive news etc. to small Indy websites like Vodoo 3D sound, it obviously doesn't quite cut the cake and is wasting resources.

TBH, I have yet to see the latest news spread away from V3D onto major websites.

I was just curious and used Google Trends to look up the amount of hits RO received. Heroes of Stalingrad didn't have any viable stats so I simply chose Red Orchestra.

It still is probably not a viable option because anyone will probably search for Heroes of Stalingrad and not RO, but it still worries me a bit.

As you can see RO received most hits in 2006 (When Ostfront was released) and has, since then, gradually decreased.

Why I did it simply was because I have, before KF, never even heard of V3D and am wondering where the news ala "NEW HoS SCREENS RELEASED ZOMGz!!!!!!" is.

Please, this is in no way a revival of the mandatory "when is it going to be released" thread or flame/troll threads, so please keep it civil here. :)
I'd simply like to discuss with fellow Ho(e)S what they think of this and would also like the mandatory dev statement saying "hype train not started, stfu" :p

I find this funny.
1 because you don't have a clue about whats going on inside Tripwire and whats best for them, so maybe you should cut them some slack, their not idiots they're the developers of this franchise for god sake.

2 I've seen the news surface on several community sites, and as Yoshiro said the hype train isn't started yet for god sake... we don't even know a release date.

People are getting so ridiculous it's insane, let TWI do their work.
 
Upvote 0
The reason why I say what I said is exactly to attain a hold in the casual market, but using the clanning community to spread the word through social networking sites. Word of mouth marketing is one of the strongest mediums of marketing, and the clanning community can be used to increase the effect on normal forums.

A lot of vocal people on these forums for example are playing with clans, units or communities. If you look at cod mw2 for example, the no dedicated server things was primarily outed by server owning communities which means that it included a big amount of clans. Even though most people don't give a crap about that and the game sold loads, a pretty small part of the community that did care was able to put out a huge voice regarding their issues.

Nearly the entire gaming world heard of the no dedicated servers thing in MW2. And that is the strength of trying to get vocal people on your side, they can help spread the news that ROHOS exists through their social networks.

There are plenty of non clanning people that care a lot for a game and are vocal about how they like it, its just hard to find exactly how to reach out to them. Clanners however beside being on random social networks and forums can be found all placed neatly together at competitive websites, making it easy to find them and reach out to them.

So basically I'm not saying aim with marketing for pleasing the clanning communities so you get more clanners to play the game. Clanners are only a small percentage of the total gamers, insignificant to the total.

I'm saying aim for clanners, so you directly market to vocal people that can help to spread the word about the game. Together with marketing to a group that is able to deliver a lot of servers for all players to play on, and will try to keep those expensive servers filled up.

---------------------------------

The focus group thing is not about in here, but all the forums people in here visit for example. I visit a lot of computer hardware forums for example, and reviews on a forum for hardware and games, including recommendations can simply make people buy stuff. There are probably plenty of people in here that are active in the cod communities for example.

A lot of people in the past have said they know about roost from posts in the cod and dod forums . You still need loads of regular advertising and marketing. But investing a little into word of mouth advertising can make the effect of word of mouth advertising quite a bit stronger than if it just roams free.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Jeez , TWI know what they're doing and i hope they continue to please us clan players, Pc players as in the past.. no matter what the marketing strategy. This game may actually be the only game as of 2010-2011 worth getting on the PC next to Storm of War Battle of Britain.

Usually as of 2005+ we are always screwed over with no mod tools, no dedicated servers, no decent pc interface and so it goes on and on... this might just be a miracle in the dark.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
"Hype train not started yet" I agree too a sense. i agree in the sense that this game isn't coming out for a while, BUT he does have a valid point. If you released screen shots isnt it for the world to see? Preferably as many people as possible? So why not let MORE people see it by getting it onto bigger websites then the voodoo thing that no one has ever heard of before. So I do agree with him - if you are gonna release media, at least make it so more people see it, by saying, "THE HYPE TRAIN HAS NOT STARTED" is like saying, we are releasing media, but only so some/a few people see it...
 
Upvote 0
well if we're focusing specifically on HOS marketing here, well that's a simple response: there isn't any :eek::(

now the reason for that, which we keep hearing, is that "the hype train hasn't left the station". so we are to assume that there will be huge marketing campaigns once they're finally ready to release it all.

my concern is that the train having sat in the station as long as it has, by the time the train actually leaves, a lot of the people waiting to meet it at the train platform have already left. they got tired of waiting, they found something else to do, or maybe they just completely lost interest. so how to save what's left, how to get the people who left back and even new people to go back to waiting at the platform?

here's the simpliest marketing suggestion i could give: more regular updates.




why? people have short attention spans. waiting months at a time for any significant news is not going to keep people interested. look at KF and how quickly it's been slipping away because there's no real news there. heck look at the activity for HOS, which has been slipping over the past 4-5 months. so how can you effectively get these regular updates out to reach the most people? how can they be easy to do from the TW end? here's some ideas:
  • weekly news updates: make an announcement in the forums with some new screenies, video, informal statements of what was done during production that week etc...
  • monthly news updates: send out an exclusive newsletter to all the registered users on this site. include extra exclusive tidbits and people will spread the news enticing more people to join the site so that they can get this news as well.
  • expand marketing outlets: this site and the steam group is nice, but what about expanding? social media marketing has become the popular trend these days. it's cheap, it has the potential to reach literally millions of people and ultimately, it's not a real difficult thing to setup and maintain. get and use a twitter account, set up fanpages on facebook and use those sites to better interact with customers and potential costumers. use your youtube channel and keep pumping teasers and mini videos to attract more subscribers. again, offer more exclusive things for youtube subscribers, facebook fans and twitter followers. maybe more than just special news, like possibly beta access, discounts, cosmetic DLC like character or weapon skins etc....
now for all i know what i've suggested could be planned, but just not going to start until "we're ready". well to that i say, there is no reason to not already be doing this RIGHT NOW. all of those suggestions could easily be implemented today. from there it would just take 1 TW employee (from the marketing dept, assuming there is one) to keep everything updated. the content in the news doesn't have to be the super secret details of the game because the thing is ANY news is news. ultimately people just want to see the company make that extra effort to connect with them, make them feel appreciated and engaged.

and to close, you can't just turn the PR light switch on and off. over the last few months, to many that light has been for the most part, off. it's not a difficult thing to keep that PR switch on over extended periods of time. other companies do it with ease and i don't see why TW can't as well. we don't give our opinions and suggestions to attack TW, we give them because we care. but the fact remains, there appears to be no marketing whatsoever for HOS or KF for that matter. i honestly believe that's because all the staff are hard at work on the actual games and that's understandable. but isn't there a marketing department that should be working on marketing and not actual game production? from my perspective, it appears that either TW doesn't have one, they're just not doing their job, or if they think their job is to be silent and unproductive, then they are incompetent.

sorry to rant, i still luv you TW, but i'm just frustrated ;)
 
Upvote 0
There is a limit of information you can give out. If you start a hype train the train must keep running and keep increasing in speed or you'll end up with people coming to the station and leaving because the train is late. The idea is that currently the train ain't running so you shouldn't bother to wait at a station or in the train yet.

Take for instance Modern Warfare 2. That game was announced on February 11th 2009 and released November 10th 2009. Of all the things in Modern Warfare 2 the marketing campaign was good with a massive budget.

And if we have to take the so far most credible guesstimate of the release that which still is 1C's guess. Then the game won't be out for another year and wouldn't even have been announced yet by the Modern Warfare 2 marketing standard. And MW2 put millions into marketing, and spend more money on marketing than development. And I doubt TWI can even get close to that marketing budget.

The issue is pretty much that its best to keep info secret till it gets close to release to attract the most new players. So that when the train departs and someone finds some info, he gets enough info while the train is running to stay interested. So for maximizing the hype the information should be kept secret so the last months can have massive big information releases to get people pumped up.

The issue with saving information for later is that it means there will be less information now. And that means basically that the current community will have a big gap of no information, causing people stop checking things daily and start doing other things.

However one can expect that players when interested will pick things up again when the hype train gets going and they catch some information from it. I mean if you look at it a lot of people here would probably pre purchase the game if it were to be released without any new information. Aka from a business perspective its probably the wisest to focus primarily on possible new customers rather than us. However for Roost players it would be the nicest if basically you would get a daily log of everything that has been done.

And I think that pretty much all information so far has primarily been for the current community rather than really reach out to the rest of the world.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I mean you say you want weekly updates and monthly updates including video trailers etc. But what do you expect to fill those 56 news updates with if the 1C prediction is correct. Especially as you don't count the voodoo3d thing as a news update, saying the last news update was 7 months ago. Some things are just not possible to do, especially if a game is in alpha.

However what I personally would like to see is an news update taking away the doubts from players whether the game for them is actually worth waiting for. Like If you only care about tanking, and the game will have no tanks then you've been waiting for nothing.

It would for the same reason be nice to see a release window. Which could even be a year wide due to uncertainties but at least allows people to plan for themselves. When in early 2008 TWI sponsored the roladder wintercup with copies of ROHOS and beta keys of ROHOS, nobody would expect that the game would release around say 2011.

Some times handing out no information can just be as destructive as giving out wrong information. Everybody is pretty much expecting the game to have tanks, and if it won't then a lot of people will get angry and annoyed.

----------

Of course this is my perspective on things, and could be the complete opposite of tripwires.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
well if we're focusing specifically on HOS marketing here, well that's a simple response: there isn't any :eek::(

now the reason for that, which we keep hearing, is that "the hype train hasn't left the station". so we are to assume that there will be huge marketing campaigns once they're finally ready to release it all.

my concern is that the train having sat in the station as long as it has, by the time the train actually leaves, a lot of the people waiting to meet it at the train platform have already left. they got tired of waiting, they found something else to do, or maybe they just completely lost interest. so how to save what's left, how to get the people who left back and even new people to go back to waiting at the platform?

here's the simpliest marketing suggestion i could give: more regular updates.




why? people have short attention spans. waiting months at a time for any significant news is not going to keep people interested. look at KF and how quickly it's been slipping away because there's no real news there. heck look at the activity for HOS, which has been slipping over the past 4-5 months. so how can you effectively get these regular updates out to reach the most people? how can they be easy to do from the TW end? here's some ideas:
  • weekly news updates: make an announcement in the forums with some new screenies, video, informal statements of what was done during production that week etc...
  • monthly news updates: send out an exclusive newsletter to all the registered users on this site. include extra exclusive tidbits and people will spread the news enticing more people to join the site so that they can get this news as well.
  • expand marketing outlets: this site and the steam group is nice, but what about expanding? social media marketing has become the popular trend these days. it's cheap, it has the potential to reach literally millions of people and ultimately, it's not a real difficult thing to setup and maintain. get and use a twitter account, set up fanpages on facebook and use those sites to better interact with customers and potential costumers. use your youtube channel and keep pumping teasers and mini videos to attract more subscribers. again, offer more exclusive things for youtube subscribers, facebook fans and twitter followers. maybe more than just special news, like possibly beta access, discounts, cosmetic DLC like character or weapon skins etc....
now for all i know what i've suggested could be planned, but just not going to start until "we're ready". well to that i say, there is no reason to not already be doing this RIGHT NOW. all of those suggestions could easily be implemented today. from there it would just take 1 TW employee (from the marketing dept, assuming there is one) to keep everything updated. the content in the news doesn't have to be the super secret details of the game because the thing is ANY news is news. ultimately people just want to see the company make that extra effort to connect with them, make them feel appreciated and engaged.

and to close, you can't just turn the PR light switch on and off. over the last few months, to many that light has been for the most part, off. it's not a difficult thing to keep that PR switch on over extended periods of time. other companies do it with ease and i don't see why TW can't as well. we don't give our opinions and suggestions to attack TW, we give them because we care. but the fact remains, there appears to be no marketing whatsoever for HOS or KF for that matter. i honestly believe that's because all the staff are hard at work on the actual games and that's understandable. but isn't there a marketing department that should be working on marketing and not actual game production? from my perspective, it appears that either TW doesn't have one, they're just not doing their job, or if they think their job is to be silent and unproductive, then they are incompetent.

sorry to rant, i still luv you TW, but i'm just frustrated ;)

Dude, there are only hardcore players around here.. TWI havn't lost any potential customers stop bs'ing. If people here leave because lack of news then let them, just face the truth they will be coming back as soon as they find out the game is about to blow up in Media and trust me if they've found their way to the forums they will find out about gaming news.

Even if there were potential lost customers it would mean nothing since it's such a small %, like we've stated over and over and even yourself the hype train haven't even started and the marketing campaign will come when ready..
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
i'll try to clarify my position better:

fan activity is the key to evaluating how successfully you're running your business. think of it like an NFL football team, let's go with the Detriot Lions (no offense lions fans, but they work for the example). last season they had the second worst average attendance out of all 32 teams. why was nobody going to the games? because the product (the football team) was terrible. fans responded by not going to the games, i.e. inactivity. they weren't happy with the way they were being treated by the organization because the organization couldn't provide a quality product. now i'm not trying to equate TW products to a crappy american football team, but trying to show that fan activity level is a telling sign for measuring success. right now all of the site's forums are pretty inactive and RO/DH and KF active player numbers have gone way down over the past half year. as a business, if my fans' activity levels had dropped that much, i'd be a bit concerned and look for ways to boost that activity level back up.

of course there will ultimately there be huge news updates and eventually KF will get its update and HOS will be released, and yes there is bound to be an influx in activity and costumers flocking to the site etc.... TW knows that and we all know that and you'd have to be pretty ignorant to not believe that will happen. but there's no reason why there can't be a little more effort put into keeping this community as happy and active as possible until all of that happens. that shows your current fanbase that you care about them, that you want to give them the best product and experience possible and that you will be just as loyal to them as they are to you. the point i was trying to make with my suggestions was that there are some pretty simple yet effective ways that TW could keep the current community more engaged and essentially happier.

oh and with regards to this whole train analogy....let's think of it as an airplane instead. the airline company told us a plane would "soon" depart for a certain destination. so a lot of people buy tickets and get to the terminal. we sit in the terminal for 2 hours as our plane is delayed. people are getting annoyed, onlookers are saying, man that doesn't look fun. finally, a glimmer of hope, we're actually boarding! some progress!

1081254337_7fc2950e75.jpg


now we're on the plane, but again a delay. we've been sitting on the tarmac for another 60 minutes, people are getting tired and the kiddies are getting ancy. people in the airport are looking at the delayed plane and the logo on the side saying "man, i'm never gonna fly US Airways now!". many people on the plane are saying, "i'm never gonna fly US Airways again". sure some longtime frequent fliers will still fly US Airways, but the majority of passengers are casual fliers and casual fliers account for the majority of ticket sales.

flight_delay_dec_23.jpg


but once the plane gets going, the passengers are happy there's finally a real sign that they're on the way to their destination. now the plane could stay at a nice steady speed and never have to pick up any speed because the pilot gives us an estimation as to how long it will take to reach our destination. everyone relaxes and enjoys the ride. oh, what's that, the stewardess is coming around with snacks? extra goodies, awesome! hmmm, this in-flight magazine has some interesting articles to read. an in-flight movie you say? oh nice that will help pass the time. what's that, the pilot just said prepare for landing? oh look out the window, i can see the destination, this is awesome i'm getting pumped up to finally arrive! airplane lands, passengers are thrilled to reach the destination and now are ready to enjoy everything it has to offer! and perhaps, just perhaps, most people forget about their poor start to the trip because the snacks were good, the movie was enjoyable, and OH they have a great vacation.

now compare that to our situation. the initial game announcement was our flight announcement. we bought our tickets, went to the terminal and sat for a little bit. the shakey cam and two news updates were our boarding call. right now, we're on the plane sitting on the tarmac waiting to get going. we just need that plane to start takeoff, the captain to announce "we're at 50,000ft and estimated time of arrival is etc..." once we know, we sit back and enjoy the inflight services. instead of snacks, a movie and a magazine, we can get screenshots, some demo videos, and some exclusive articles from the Devs themselves. as we move closer to the destination, the "landing announcement" could be the big marketing campaign that get's us all hyped up as we wait to pull into the terminal and finally reach our destination. oh and that estimated time of arrival, do they say the exact minute the plane will arrive? no, but at least you'll know the day and maybe hour at least. TW doesn't even have to give the exact day to keep people happy. at this point, people will be happy to at least have the year, and thrilled to have the quarter....heck a month would have people crying with happiness.

anyway enough with all that.......back to marketing suggestions: what i've suggested a couple posts ago, and what zets suggested as well have a lot of positive things in them. of course, only our observations and suggestions and based on the assumptions that TW has not already thought about or planned to implement those ideas. oh and chicken, yes please tell alan i say hai and please direct him to this thread if you could, although i'm confident he will most likely find it on his own as there are so few "new posts" in the forums these days and the highlighted thread title should immediately grab his attention :p

again, all this is out of love. i've actually got some more marketing suggestions but i'll wait a little to post em since i've got a long enough post going already muahauahah ;)
 
Upvote 0
Last edited:
Upvote 0