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Is there going to be a good melee system?

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Morpheus

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Apr 19, 2010
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#1
I am sure theirs been a thread related to this but my only big problem with the current RO is the outright terrible melee (crappy hitboxes, rifle butting a guy 8 times in the face with no result etc). Stalingrad had a lot of gritty close quarters battles and it would be outright epic to have an awesome new melee system. My idea was a sort of tackle system that when you get close enough( I mean very close so we dont have a COD like tacklefest) you can tackle a player and have a sort of QT event button mash and the first person who either screws up first or reaches a certain amount of good hits totally shanks/beats the crap outta the player. If thats too much or pushing the engine then I at least hope for some kind of block/parry system or fists/knife when your outta ammo or choose to pull em out. I know this game will be friggin epic but adding awesome melee is one of my high hopes for awesome moments in the game.

Post your melee ideas below :)
 
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#2
The new alien versus predator game has a interesting yet simple and effective melee system.

Light melee counters heavy melee
Heavy Melee Breaks Guard/Block
Guard/Block defends against light melee.

Light -> Heavy -> Blocking -> Light

Also in AvP if you light attack immediately after you guard against a enemy's light attack, it will knock them down/stun them.
I think it would be interesting if RO:Hos utilized a similar system, it would add much more depth to melee instead of charge and stab people while running in circles. :D
 
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#3
slavek said:
The new alien versus predator game has a interesting yet simple and effective melee system.

Light melee counters heavy melee
Heavy Melee Breaks Guard/Block
Guard/Block defends against light melee.

Light -> Heavy -> Blocking -> Light

Also in AvP if you light attack immediately after you guard against a enemy's light attack, it will knock them down/stun them.
I think it would be interesting if RO:Hos utilized a similar system, it would add much more depth to melee instead of charge and stab people while running in circles. :D
Click to expand...

This post is blasphemy.

Let me first note that Aliens vs Predator 2 is one of my favorite games of all time.

Let me second note that FullMJ-BoltsOnly is like a digital home to me and that I was one of the few active members of the hips group in RO.

I've played the Aliens vs Predator demo, and not only was it an absolute travesty compared to AvP2, I noted how ridiculously consolized for lamers the melee system was. When you come behind someone, you press E, and you instagrab your enemy and execute him. You press E, and he dies. Even on the PC, the demo had copious amounts of autoaim for normal attacks, which basically reduced combat down to spamming mouse-1.

Likewise, Modern Warfare has a facepalm lulfail melee system. You press E and you get an instant win. This is stupid and should not be replicated in HoS. Please do not give us cheesy win buttons like these fail games.

Now, I know at least a dozen awesome exploits in Ost, which definitely make melee combat more interesting, and unfortunately most of them involve throwing your hitboxes around in an unpredictable fashion to make yourself harder to hit. Autoaim and "swipe melee" systems make this much easier to counteract, whereas Ost's "point" melee system is almost comically easy to defeat. But I say this seriously and honestly, the sub-game of melee fights in Ost has spawned an underground culture dedicated to what has become something of an art form. I refer to Ost as the pinnacle of extremely deep and engaging melee combat for FPS. Is it stupid? Yes. Is it totally ineffective? Yes. Is it unrealistic? Yes. But it requires skill, and that means it is one of the most engaging activities I've ever experienced.

Just had to post that before I say goodbye. *long sigh* no more swan diving in Sparta once HoS hits, eh?

Back to AvP....I'm not sure how effective the rock-paper-scissors melee combat really was, seeing as mouse-1 seemed to be an effective counter to everything. This could be altered by making block actually stun the mouse-1 spammer allowing you an attack window, but, seriously? You want to reduce the melee game down to rock-paper-scissors, Pokemon style? Countering I can understand, which is why if I were to refer to a good implementation of a counter system, I'd rather point to Age of Chivalry. But counter systems don't make sense when we're talking about bayonets. How does one block a bayonet? Preferably not with a rifle. How does one defeat a bayonet stab? Lol, you don't. You get stabbed and then you die.

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I want the skill basis for melee in Ost preserved in HoS. I want to preserve realism. Between those two I think we can find a workable solution. One, butt swipes are sensible. Noobs can understand them. They make melee more accessible and more of a legitimate tactical option. They're realistic. Two, bayo stabs should not be charge only. Quick stabs should be possible. Sprinting with a bayonet at the ready should be sufficient to skewer a target, even with significantly more force than can be delivered from "charging" a bayo stab. It's called momentum. Sprinting and slamming a bayonet into someone is usually sufficient for penetration and tissue deformation.

For god's sakes, fix the hitboxes. Try test for melee bugs to ensure that it isn't as hilariously easy in HoS to defeat a melee opponent. Use a physical simulation of momentum to make nimbly maneuvering your player character in close quarters more difficult. This will make closing on and defeating a target with melee easier.

Also, in my opinion, the attack area of the bayonet stab should be equal to the width of the bayonet.

I think that's all that's necessary for a melee system.
 
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#4
Well your talking like melee is the main gameplay element...and a bayo stab can be blocked and can be dodged. Its not like when you see a guy come running at you, your wondering hmmm **** Im totally screwed. You can use your bayonet to deflect his or simply step outta the way. As for the whole Ost melee underground thing well that may be true but you said yourself its pretty much stupid. I do like slaveks idea for melee but maybe just have 1 attack and 1 block and have it be all about timing. If I block perfectly you can parry and stab but if i block then take a second too long I lose the opportunity for a counter. I just want to be able to have a melee fight that lasts longer than 10 seconds, actually requires some skill and actually having a solid system behind it rather than running in a circle seeing who can nail the crap hitbox first. I do agree though that momentum with a sprinting bayo charge would be cool and maybe be able to break through a put up block just not an auto kill. As for backstabs well in HoS its alot different getting flanked than crappy AVP so if you actually allow someone to get behind you with in bayo range you deserve to get skewered. I guess in the end all Im actually asking for is a block button, so its not just the first person who bayo charges wins...and non crappy hit boxes. Im no noob but just today I held back my rifle butt ready to knock a ruskie into a wall and I nailed him perfectly then again and again until he noticed my stupid *** and blew me away. Think most satisfying for me would be a knife or fists when your weapon gets shot outta your hand. Too many a time in ost have I had to stare a german down after he shot my hand and randomly throw an autoswitched nade. I WANNA BE ABLE TO PUNCH OR TACKLE HIM DAMN IT!
 
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#5
Agghghghgh.

You have no clue. I'm a seasoned vet, I know what I'm talking about!

Bayo fights in Ost are incredible. You just have to know how to do it.

It's stupid in the sense that upon reflection, what you are engaged in is a silly cockfight. But the game itself is so beautiful it's comparable to Ost's metagame and better than most games' total package.
 
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#7
first of all I'd like to see the standard swing butt stock attack back in action. The Ostfront one feels highly awkward, I've been trying this compared to the side swing. The side swing is faster and easier to be done than the raise-gun-up-to-your-head thing.

Secondly I've been thinking about a melee blocking too. So you're able to block a melee attack. The heavy melee could be a charged one. Like holding back the rifle while sprinting and perform a side swing attack with the charging speed. With the heavy one you could break through the block and eventually even punch the weapon out of the enemy's hands.
 
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#8
I've played the Aliens vs Predator demo, and not only was it an absolute travesty compared to AvP2, I noted how ridiculously consolized for lamers the melee system was. When you come behind someone, you press E, and you instagrab your enemy and execute him. You press E, and he dies. Even on the PC, the demo had copious amounts of autoaim for normal attacks, which basically reduced combat down to spamming mouse-1.

Never said I wanted the gay inst gib from behind stuff. Nor did I mention auto aim. I was simply suggesting the concept it had.

Now, I know at least a dozen awesome exploits in Ost, which definitely make melee combat more interesting, and unfortunately most of them involve throwing your hitboxes around in an unpredictable fashion to make yourself harder to hit. Autoaim and "swipe melee" systems make this much easier to counteract, whereas Ost's "point" melee system is almost comically easy to defeat. But I say this seriously and honestly, the sub-game of melee fights in Ost has spawned an underground culture dedicated to what has become something of an art form. I refer to Ost as the pinnacle of extremely deep and engaging melee combat for FPS. Is it stupid? Yes. Is it totally ineffective? Yes. Is it unrealistic? Yes. But it requires skill, and that means it is one of the most engaging activities I've ever experienced.
Click to expand...

:cool: Ya and I'm part of that underground community and I actually use melee with deadly efficiency in real maps and incorporate it in my normal routine besides just screwing around on Hips/Bolts. :D

. . . anyways, main point of my post was to suggest an idea that could be built upon. The system we have now it good for the lulz and stuff but I want something different in RO2, something more complicated but also polished and not arcady.

Perhaps bayo could bypass most/all defense but have noticeable detrimental effects to shooting/aiming with it equipped. Lets add onto an idea. (Even though we don't even know what sort of system TWI has already)
 
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#9
current melee system in RO is really flawed and not realistic at all, it uses to come down to 2 soldiers running in circles missing their stabs until one hits.

there are several ways I imagine that a new melee system could work, for example:

when you hit an unprepared soldier you kill him, but when he is ready and facing you, both enter in some kind of multiplayer QTE in which the first one to fails dies. just an idea
 
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#11
The blocking should work like you're holding down a button and your character raises his rifle in blocking position. The rifle can only block attacks in a certain angle. So if your defending your upper body and head your lower body and legs should be vulnerable. So you need to move and block again and same for the attacker, he needs to attack different body parts and not just mainstream bashing towards the upper torso.
 
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#12
Personal preference for a melee system would be a contextual single button thing. Something I can put on the mouse like say mouse-4 and it's not going to interfere with my shooting controls, but I can use in a hurry if I need.

Tap "melee" to attack, (use bayonet/strike with barrel or butt-stock/unarmed strike) preferably with a very small amount of automatic realignment (like in CoD 5, but without the dramatic 45 degree turns :p) so that if you're essentially in the centre of the screen the attack will align properly, but not so much that we can't dodge/sidestep each other's attacks.

Hold "melee" to go into a guard and ward off attacks. While the set/parry/block animation is playing you can't guard against a second hit until the guard is reset (so you can't block 2 people at the same time). But this should also create a small stun effect in the blocked opponent such that they can't attack instantly after you've successfully defended (but can still block).

If counters are to be done at all (and I'm not sure they should) they should be performed as timed attacks, rather than from a guard. Mess it up and you get hit yourself, succeed and you land your own blow while you deflect your opponents.

As much as I'd love a full on system for grappling and fighting over weapons I think something similar to this one would be fine for HoS.
 
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#16
Morpheus said:
Exactly...I dont care how much of a "seasoned vet" you are Ive been playing Ost for I think 4 years now and the melee system is silly. Its actually not even a system just an attack button. I know exactly what Im talking about.
Click to expand...

PFfftthht.

You just indicated that you don't understand what I'm talking about. The melee is a game in and of itself, apart from the metagame. How it contributes to the metagame is aside from the fact that it is awesome. Have you ever played SPARTAAAAA for 3 weeks straight? No? Nein? Then you fail to grasp my point.

Have you ever played FullMJ-BoltsOnly for 3 months straight? No? Nein? Achtung, ditto.

I don't know what the hell a melee system is, by the way. It helps if you define your terms.
 
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#17
I've you played cqc maps that much you should have noticed how many people cannot handle the free aim in bayo fightings and just run around in circles.

Bayonetting in terms of aiming is one of the easiest things to do, people shouldn't have trouble hitting someone at point blank range.

If you know that there is free aim and a slight time delay when you release the button and the hit happens then you can anticipate it and pretty much make 10 kills+ in a row on sparta, but that doesn't mean that the system is still far from natural.

Things that are easy in reallife should be easy ingame, sure a lot of dept can be added like blocking etc. But the actual bayoing is too hard as showcased by most people running around each other in circles.
 
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#18
Zetsumei said:
I've you played cqc maps that much you should have noticed how many people cannot handle the free aim in bayo fightings and just run around in circles.

Bayonetting in terms of aiming is one of the easiest things to do, people shouldn't have trouble hitting someone at point blank range.

If you know that there is free aim and a slight time delay when you release the button and the hit happens then you can anticipate it and pretty much make 10 kills+ in a row on sparta, but that doesn't mean that the system is still far from natural.

Things that are easy in reallife should be easy ingame, sure a lot of dept can be added like blocking etc. But the actual bayoing is too hard as showcased by most people running around each other in circles.
Click to expand...

I agree. It is too hard. I find myself having to lead targets with a bayonet that visually is already at the end of the stab animation. The strike should occur at the end of the stab animation. Then again, part of the issue might be the animation lag and the network latency.

However, I personally like the free aim. It even makes it easier for me to strike a target.

I also have to add that nobody said bayonetting was easy in real life and you have no reasonable expectation of a successful hit, even at point blank range, with a 4 foot, 8 pound rifle. If you went with the RO route of "charging" your strikes, and took to dancing around your opponent, it would probably be pretty difficult.

This is part of why I think my suggestions are sufficient to make melee easier without making it unrealistic or a wtfsigh easy mode button. No strike delay, no charging, a target the size of the dimensions of the bayonet as opposed to a single point, and successful and powerful bayonet strikes automatically when coming out of a sprint.

Gunbutting should also be a swipe, with the backhand "THWAP" charge perhaps as a separate altfire.
 
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#19
People can hit a baseball with a bat with relative ease. Hitting a man sized target that is moving at a much slower speed than a baseball should be pretty easy to hit, unless he quickly changes direction or ducks.

The issue with free aim is that you do not really see where the gun is pointing while doing the bayonet animation (especially on widescreen monitors so the bottom of the image is cut off so you see less of your weapon to find out where its pointing).

Especially as there is no free aim in the charging stance, aka while charging it looks to be hitting in the center of your screen. So while an enemy is moving left of you, you'll turn your screen to the left and stab, so it feels like you have to stab ahead of the target.

Makes using a bayonet in game harder than it is in real life.
 
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