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Will RO:HOS support Nvidia PhysX?

Why is everybody talking about PhysX? It's not that special, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a Battlefield fanboy, but BC2 shows that it's perfectly possible to have great destruction / physics without using a third party technology. It's part of the engine. That being said, does UE3 have realistic destruction?
The procedural destruction in Unreal Engine 3 through PhysX doesn't look spectacular at all to me.

It definately does not look realistic. Although in Batman Arkham Asylum it does look goed, but I think they did some tweaking there.

The only thing which wowed me was an early Crysis 2 trailer/teaser.
It showed a big chunk of concrete coming down from a flat/apartment building landing on top of a freight container leaving a huge true geometrical dent and knocking a few concrete tiles out of a sidewalk.
 
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Why is everybody talking about PhysX? It's not that special, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a Battlefield fanboy, but BC2 shows that it's perfectly possible to have great destruction / physics without using a third party technology. It's part of the engine. That being said, does UE3 have realistic destruction?

Amen! Sing it brotha!
 
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Why is everybody talking about PhysX? It's not that special, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a Battlefield fanboy, but BC2 shows that it's perfectly possible to have great destruction / physics without using a third party technology. It's part of the engine. That being said, does UE3 have realistic destruction?

UE3's physics engine is PhysX, that's why were talking about it. If it were possible most people including me would probably prefer a different physics engine like bullit.

But I doubt that TWI will go with the hassle to remove the default physics engine and swap it out with any of those, so were stuck with physx as it will probably be the physics engine for ROHOS. And when we are stuck with it, it would be nice to use some of the positive sides of it for those with nvidia cards. (and i actually run on an ATI card myself).

PhysX can still do a lot of stuff though, sadly it doesn't really support multicore well. So a lot of the nice things like full out destruction cannot really work that well from what I've seen on a cpu.
 
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UE3's physics engine is PhysX, that's why were talking about it. If it were possible most people including me would probably prefer a different physics engine like bullit, havok or destruction 2.0 or whatever.

But I doubt that TWI will go with the hassle to remove the default physics engine and swap it out with any of those, so were stuck with physx as it will probably be the physics engine for ROHOS. And when we are stuck with it, it would be nice to use some of the positive sides of it for those with nvidia cards. (and i actually run on an ATI card myself).
I think it's not the integration of alternative physics middleware. It's adapting the ROHOS SDK to use it.
 
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PhysX is ported to run on the X360 through hardware acceleration.

That's incorrect. I think you mean "software emulation." Hardware acceleration specifically refers to GPU acceleration (or, more generally, a dedicated piece of hardware). Software emulation refers to doing a function normally done on a dedicated piece of hardware on the CPU.

The reason I think you mean that is because:

[url]http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143371[/URL]
[url]http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEkykFulFlXObSDuAo.php[/URL]

Now, in the first article you see Ageia notes that they will be bringing Physx to PCs and the Playstation 3 in the form of software support (specifically mentioning PC CPUs).

In the second, they offer a retraction to the title statement, which is that the Xbox 360 could not run Physx. I just intend to show that my purpose was not related to the topic line.

If the Xbox 360 supports HARDWARE acceleration, i.e. that which is accelerated by the GPU, I want you to provide evidence for that claim.

Its not that the ati pc hardware couldn't run hardware physx nvidia just doesn't want it. And physx is generally kind of horrible on the pc when using a cpu, at least in the udk and ut3 without a physx card your frames start to plummet quite quickly when you destroy an object which makes the object into serveral individual physx applied pieces of rubble.
And yet, notably, however they have managed to do it, the team at Atomic Games have evidently delivered precisely the kind of destructibility that we would like to see in a downloadable game apparently using a software physics solution (proprietary, so not Physx) on the Xbox 360. I'd say it's possible on a CPU.

Frames per second got nothing to do with the ability to replicate data online and the physx on that video aren't actually replicated as the destruction is done on the end users client similar to ragdoll.
Bollocks. All of directly impacts other players, which means it is transmitted to the server and to the receiving client.. The developer demonstrated a structure collapsing on another player. Are you telling me that's done client-side? He also showed a dynamic cover system which is directly impacted by the size and location of destroyed cover, as well as the ability to see through and shoot through the holes in walls. How does one implement this mechanic when it is only client-side? You get killed by an invisible man shooting through an invisible hole?

At any rate, it's good to see you're now on my side as far as third-person machine gun belt physics :p

Suffice to say I do think that if this is so impossible (with a good clip and a software rendering solution) to have destructible environments, this does strengthen my resolve against machine gun belt physics :D

All information both people get is that say object X has been shot at position Y, and how it crumbles looks different on every computer.
I'm glad you have seen the algorithm. Can you show us?
With bullets and their path generally the entire physx engine is probably bypassed as it would be possible to use existing simplified math and lookup tables to calculate the end result. Calculations for bullets are pretty complex and would require a lot of work if an iteration process like PhysX were to be used.
This is the reason why hardware acceleration is suggested. There are possibly significant issues with network latency, bandwidth, and processor speeds, considering the breadth of significant calculations already performed by Ost Front's engine.

I will qualify my interest in the technology by saying that if it has significant effects on the net performance, I think that drawback should be considered seriously by the developers. Our ability to do stupid stuff like blow up haystacks and knock down walls with tanks needs to be contrasted with the game's performance and realistic expectations of player hardware (both client and server end).

But anyway, suffice to say I'm enjoying your creative speculation. I don't see any point to it, but it's fun to read. I wonder where you're getting all this information? :confused:
 
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Those articles you showed stated that the Xbox 360 cannot run physX and then a retraction of that statement. Which shows how old those articles are, as the the gears of war series (one of the main system sellers) on the xbox 360 uses physx.

Perhaps its not hardware accelerated as I do not know any more where I read about it. However I wouldn't be surprised if the xbox 360 physx would be really optimized for that platform. But talking about that, what xbox 360 multi player games using the physx physics engine actually have full destruction?

I'm not stating anywhere that destructibility is impossible to do with playable frames on a cpu, 9 years ago red faction already had destruction and even deformable terrain including (buggy) multiplayer. What I'm saying is that in UT3 maps with physics similar to HL2 seem to get quite bad frame rate already . So doing full blown completely replicated destruction is probably outside of the realm of possibility.

I think it's not the integration of alternative physics middleware. It's adapting the ROHOS SDK to use it.

I consider that a part of a full integration process. And that's one of many reasons why I think the chance of a different physics engine is pretty much nihil. And that's why I talk about physX and not other systems.

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What I personally want, is utilizing physics a lot in game, but optimized to work well on whatever TWI imagines to be the min spec machine that should run the game. I would love full on destruction but personally just do not see it happening.

And for those that have hardware accelerated physx capabilities, it would be nice to be able to either offload some work to the gpu, or basically get some additional graphical goodies. Like nicer looking explosions, first person weapon slings/ammo belts that act like they have inertia and weight, greatcoats that act like they are made of cloth etc.
 
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Why is everybody talking about PhysX? It's not that special, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a Battlefield fanboy, but BC2 shows that it's perfectly possible to have great destruction / physics without using a third party technology. It's part of the engine. That being said, does UE3 have realistic destruction?


BC2 destruction doesn't actually use physics, but scripting instead. Walls have an amount of hitpoints and holes will form when enough damage is taken to a part and the whole wall will collapse when the HP reaches zero.
 
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BC2 destruction doesn't actually use physics, but scripting instead. Walls have an amount of hitpoints and holes will form when enough damage is taken to a part and the whole wall will collapse when the HP reaches zero.

That is actually a pretty nice way of doing things. Ability to blow holes in regular walls and doors. And if say too many holes are made in a building on one floor the building collapses. Not by physics but by script. However it should then be done in a realistic way, as a lot of buildings can take quite a punch before actually collapsing (the grain silo and pavlov's house both took quite a punch).
 
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If overused, this could be commercial suicide for TWI.

Remember that, in the recent past, ATI offered cards which were not only much, much better value than NVidia's, but offered more modern, exclusive technology for more than six months.

TWI are potentially threatening at least a third of their sales with this move.

I've only ever previously seen Physx used for ridiculous applications in the past. Do TWI really want to go down the route of 'Physx is used to create an ultra-realistic fabric-simulation for Batman's cape!!1!1one!!'?

When it hasn't been ridiculous, the advertised 'NVidia only technology' has often been a pure con: remember Cryostasis (like Killing Floor, but you only ever faced one enemy at a time, because that's all the engine could render)? You could set the supposed PhysX options to run on a second ATI card and achieve a blazing framerate.

RO:HOS just went from a sure-buy to a 'wait until after release and watch the forums' for me.
 
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Wow.. I'm pretty sure the OPs question was answered long ago with a "Yes, because it's included in UnrealEngine 3 by default".

If I was god I'd banish everyoen back to the lot of 'Be glad you even have Karma'.. and we all know how horrid the Generation 1 Physics engines where.. so even PhysX, so long as it's not over done, running in S/W, don't mean 'zomg 0 FPS for ATi Users!!!!!!'.

Also, I'd like to make a point that TWI has a history of ensuring their titles are playable on a variety of H/W, even stuff considered 'ancient' by gamer standards, so even though PhysX is included in the game engine, ATi users will still be able to play it.

So.. I vote "Everyone take a chill pill".
 
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In a pc game it is impossible to make everybody have the exact same visuals. some people simply have faster computers than others, and some have bigger screens than others etc. PC games must be scaled up and down graphically to please a bigger audience.

But logically physx stuff should be used for effects and non important things if used, and not for say smoke or things that block sight. The vision of all people should stay the same as much as possible.

A lot of people will always run a game in low graphics settings or whatever settings make it the easiest to spot enemies. If anything physX like graphical options would most likely be disabled by people that tweak settings for getting an advantage..
 
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I have some difficult to translate and understand, but I wanna know one thing: we'll see the same game with an ati or an nvidia?In a multiplayer game it's absolutely important have the same game with the same graphic.

What does your common sense tell you? :rolleyes:
But of course there are GFX options, not all can afford high end GPU that will run the game properly, if the game has taxing graphics that is.
 
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