Please fix this, i cannot tolerate it anymore!

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

Battle report of today:

Riccardo: IS-2

Enemy: Panther

Support for me: one T-34/85

Support for the enemy: /

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Both tanks (Panther and IS-2) are angled at 1 (or 11, i don't remember)

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Distance: ~150m

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1- I shot one AP round to the side armour of Panther. The AP penetrates the side armour without consequences.

2- The T-34/85 shots one AP round in the mantlet of Panther. No penetration.

3- The Panther shot to the T-34/85. The shell penetrates the tank and damage it.

4- I shot the second AP round again in the side armours of the Panther. But this time no penetration.

5- The T-34/85 shots to the hull frontal armor of Panther. No penetration.

6- The Panther shots for the second time to the T-34-85. Killed.

7- I shot my 3rd AP round in the side armour. No penetration again.

8- The Panther shots to me for the first time. In the hull frontal armor. Penetrated and damaged.

9- Desperate i try to shot in the mantlet. But for error i hit the hull-frontal armour. No penetration.

10- The Panther shots to me for the second time. Again in the hull frontal armour. Killed.

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No comment.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

so, can you explain what needs to be fixed? nice battle story though....

 

[omarfw]

sounds like a tank hit box error

 

[Tank!]

1- I shot one AP round to the side armour of Panther. The AP penetrates the side armour without consequences.

Penetrating shot but no effect error/bug? The side should not be resisting that.

2- The T-34/85 shots one AP round in the mantlet of Panther. No penetration.

Looks like we have a Panther G with mantlet chin in game. If I recall correctly the Sherman's 76 mm weapon which is superior to the T-34/85's main weapon could not penetrate the Panther's mantlet with normal AP rounds unless under 200 yards (182 meters) and even then it was "chancy"

3- The Panther shot to the T-34/85. The shell penetrates the tank and damage it.

No problem there. The panther's weapon is more than capable of defeating its inadequate frontal armor.

4- I shot the second AP round again in the side armours of the Panther. But this time no penetration

You know what? Enough typing. This game and its tanking is blatantly unrealistic and rubbish. I suggest you buy RO 2 and if it includes tanks that Tripwire hopefully learned something from RO 1's tanking disaster. If they did not and RO 2 is just as rubbish as this then lets gather a bunch of knowledgeable people from the DH forums and complain here together.

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

Penetrating shot but no effect error/bug? The side should not be resisting that.
Looks like we have a Panther G with mantlet chin in game. If I recall correctly the Sherman's 76 mm weapon which is superior to the T-34/85's main weapon could not penetrate the Panther's mantlet with normal AP rounds unless under 200 yards (182 meters) and even then it was "chancy"
No problem there. The panther's weapon is more than capable of defeating its inadequate frontal armor.
You know what? Enough typing. This game and its tanking is blatantly unrealistic and rubbish. I suggest you buy RO 2 and if it includes tanks that Tripwire hopefully learned something from RO 1's tanking disaster. If they did not and RO 2 is just as rubbish as this then lets gather a bunch of knowledgeable people from the DH forums and complain here together.

No, no, the problem is not the T-34/85 (i reported it because it is part of battle). The problem is that the Panther kill me in 2 shot taking me in the frontal armor (120mm @ 60 degrees) and i NEVER damaged it. I only report this battle for TWI.

Another battle of yesterday:

Me: T-34/85

Enemy: Panther (heavy damaged with burning engine)

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1- I shot to the engine. (I thinked: ahah! I will oneshot you!!1111oneone). No penetration.

2- Panther shots to me. Penetration but no damage.

3- I shot again in the engine. No penetration again.

4- Panther shots to me. Penetration and kill.


I perfectly know that the Panther is not the only tank overpowered in RO (other big example is the resistance of SU-76) but i think that it is the MORE owerpowered between the overpowered tanks.

And another point is that IS-2 is higly underpowered. Technically speaking, the IS-2 is the best tank of WW2 (technically speaking), it is the tank with better armor and equipped with one of the best gun of WW2. But i noticed that in most cases it's resistance is equal to Tiger, and in the side armor even worse.......the armor is very very underpowered.

So, i think that is not difficul to do some modification to the game to fix the problem with tanks (not only IS-2 and Panther, but ALL the tanks) expecially because in the maps where Germans have Panthers are unplayable.....well, i know that we already discuss of this in the other thread but i want to underline this problem to TWI.

In fact, in the last months, i always played DH because the damage system is 100 times better than RO (and infact, very often happens that the enemies kill me in one/two shot when they shot in the side armor of my Panther, even if they hit the armor with high angle). In the last days i tryed to play again RO but these encounters with enemy Panthers (and other situations) rember me why i stopped playing RO.

(this thread give me an idea....maybe we can open a thread where the players can write their battle reports )

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

i would agree that while RO's tanking is pretty good considering the games you can compare it too, but sure there are some huge annoyances with them. like shots registering as "solid" hits on your end, yet it doesn't show any damage. or crazy bounces that result in one shot kills. like the secret (not so secret) spot on t34s. but yes hopefully HOS will have the best tanking system yet.

 

[TT33]

This has been discussed here at length here especially in the earlier days of this game which came to the following conclusions none of the ballistic data such as penetration numbers as well as the way sloped armor and deflects are handled in game is based on realistic figures or at least figures that even resemble the realistic, in fact it has been established here that gun power and in some cases armor is overpowered (or underpowered) beyond historical levels. This gave way to popular mutators such as Armored beasts as well as Mods which have implemented a totally reworked tanking system such as Carpaithian Crosses and Darkest Hour.

-bswearer]i would agree that while RO's tanking is pretty good considering the games you can compare it too

Well to be honest I find RO's tanking system to be very similar to BF42's tanking system even the weakest outclassed light vehicle can effectively penetrate the larger more thickly armored ones (which were historically invulnerable to such small calibers) often at very large distances (frontally) as can be seen with the T-60 vs a Panzer III and IV on RO-Orel.

but yes hopefully HOS will have the best tanking system yet.

We have to wait and see assuiming there are tanks( I'm not up to speed with RO2 gossip) in RO2 I hope more time is devoted to adding a more detailed damage system as well as more features like round over-match and round shatter which deviates from the round theoretical penetration... penetrating X number at X distance is not always the case due to these and other factors such as round and armor quality.

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

Other example of today:

- A German's half-track with mounted AT gun oneshot my perfectly angled IS-2 from ~200m.

- I fight against Panther using IS-2, both tanks are angled and, obviously, the Panther win without taking any damage.

- Two T-34/85 and one T-34/76 shot 16 times (16 times in total obviously) into the side armour of Panther to take it out.

Many other things happened but i don't remember all of them...these are the more clamorous.

 

[Tank!]

The game is unrealistic mate its as simple as that.

 

[omarfw]

The game is unrealistic mate its as simple as that.

at least when you look at the small details. the immersion of battle is unbeat by any other WWII shooter imo. that's realistic enough for me.

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

at least when you look at the small details. the immersion of battle is unbeat by any other WWII shooter imo. that's realistic enough for me.

Yes, compared with the other FPS this game is GOD, GOD!, but the tanking system has many problems.

 

[Oldih]

Yes, compared with the other FPS this game is GOD, GOD!, but the tanking system has many problems.

I could name alot of small details lacking in the infantry combat all which are absent in the game yet completely realistic and so **** that over 80% of players would howl their brains to the moon if they would just be in the game and quit playing, so it's good to note realism relative to the gameplay.

Yes, RO tanking is not exactly realistic by the very basics of penetration among other things, but presuming you can live past that the basic gameplay function of tanks is bearable. The problem between balancing the nature of one-shot-kills (considering there's very few maps in RO that have actually long ranges in real meaning of the word) and gameplay would be difficult to solve, as realistically speaking once you get 1-2 penetrations the tank is out. How often you would be able to one shot tank in typical RO range? Over 90% of time. Taking 3-6 penetrations from any typical late war tank without any problems would either indicate really stupid shooter or unrealistic situation where tank interior can't be damaged (which obviously is not modelled in the game), and we would have another can of worms at hand.

I am not saying that it should be unrealistic by design, but the gameplay relative to the realism might be own sort of problem when you consider how it practically works. As I said, I could name quite notable list about small details about infantry which are absent in the game yet are all very realistic, but also so **** that you would easily lose the whole community just because of those.

 

[Tank!]

Yes, RO tanking is not exactly realistic by the very basics of penetration among other things, but presuming you can live past that the basic gameplay function of tanks is bearable

Very bearable:

YouTube - Red Orchestra's unrealistic T-60 light tankhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60fVB3W05ko

 

[Oldih]

Very bearable:

Depends how you look at it. Even in DH Jumbo Sherman is completely from another world when it comes to being realistic. T-60 is not being realistic at all though, but then again the whole system is silly in the game.

Once again, if we really go to the extreme realism argument over

 

[Kashash]

It doesn't need to be as realistic as 1shot-1kill. Even all the armor values and penetration data could stay the same- it's actually quite realistic in approximation. But at least 2 basic issues fixed - effectivness of tank angling much reduced to realistic value so there would be no 2 tanks shooting each other for 5 minutes with all shells bouncing off and hull and turret seperated and this would do for me. Otherwise RO tanking is just unbearable. How much of time this would take to do it? Almost no time at all.

 

[Shurek]

Depends how you look at it. Even in DH Jumbo Sherman is completely from another world when it comes to being realistic. T-60 is not being realistic at all though, but then again the whole system is silly in the game.

The "Jumbo" in DH is not an officially released product of the dev team and does not conform to the tanking system I wrote for DH. It is a custom add-on created for one of the community tank servers by one of their members without our knowledge or consent, and unfortunately it's now become ubiquitous on all DH tank servers.

 

[Oldih]

The "Jumbo" in DH is not an officially released product of the dev team and does not conform to the tanking system I wrote for DH.

In that case I have to say it's bit silly example, but rather interesting case how things can easily go out of hand if people don't really put any effort in the system they implemented (in this case would be whoever made the Jumbo Sherman rather than DH team).

 

[NickRoman]

First, let me say I like the game but this does need to be fixed. Perhaps have the ability to turn on or off the historical capabilities versus those that have been adjusted for "game play".

I posted in another thread that the reality is that a Tiger tank was virtually unstopable in WWII and to have a T34 "1 shot" me is a bit much. Especially after hitting it 5 times to kill it and then even from the sides or rear sometimes.

My father, who fought in Patton's 3rd Army, across France, Belgium and Germany would just tell you that this is completely FUBAR.