Make the fleshpound a fearsome beast again?

[Undedd Jester]

I remember when I first started KF back on the 14th May 2009. Ah what joy was to be had, the learning kurb was tough, the game was rewarding even in death, and when the good old fleshpound came around we all crapped our pants and ran to the back of the group praying everyone else could kill it before it got to you.

No matter how long I played I still muttered a silent *Damn* whenever one came r unning after me. Then 2 things happened. Level 6 perks came out, and headshot hitboxes were fixed. This took the mighty fleshpound down to something that could be insta gibbed with a single crossbow shot from the Sharpshooter (Now before anyone starts this isn't a sharpie rant). So I thought to myself, how would it be best to make the fleshpound a force of nature again.

Simple answer, a strong resistance to headshots. Same way the SCrake is weak to headshots but resistant to explosives, the Fleshpound should be weak to explosives but resistant to Headshots.

THis does not mean the Sharpie should no longer be the best class to attack them with, but it should be significantly harder for a sharpie to do it alone. Teamwork was always the key beating a fleshpound before, which is a principle that unfortuately is no longer needed.

Thats my idea to making the game harder, along with the inevitable Sharpie nerf, make it so the fleshpound once again becomes an absolute terror to take down

 

[SMIFF]

it should take at least 3 crossbow shots to decap him, like it used too.

they should remove the random rage aswell and put the old system back, except instead of having it a certain amount of damage within a few seconds, just have it so when hes been damaged by about 400 - 600, then he rages, no timer or anything.

i prefered the old way, but i didnt like the 2 shot wait 5 seconds 'tactic'.

 

[akstylish]

Agreed. This is a very simple yet effective solution and should be easy to code.

 

[Thorgal]

I definitely support this, however, there should also be a limit of 1 fleshpound spawned at a time.

 

[Nin]

Finally, someone's suggestion doesn't sound like it was pulled out of the deep cores of their lower body. No offense, but some ideas are best left to yourself.

I support this. It would make Demolitions important again, slightly.

 

[BEEEEEES]

I'm going to laugh it up when eventually this happens:

1. Sharpshooter nerf;
2. Fleshpounds get beefed up even more, removing the already negligible hope you have of not losing team members to this zed without Sharpshooters in the party.
3. Successful teams will still be composed primarily of Sharpshooters, because everyone hates Demo smoke.

With any strengthening of Fleshpounds or nerfing of the Perks that do any significant damage to them [SS, Demo], room for other perks within the party shrinks smaller and smaller because you need more [SS, Demo] players to have a shot at making it through later waves alive.

Who's going to fill the gap in 6-man suicidal?

• Support? By the time Support can start doing some real shotgun damage to the Fleshpound, it's probably auto-enraged and about 3 seconds away from plowing into someone for 1 million billion damage.
• Berserker? "RAWR I'll get you with my ow im ded..."
• Firebug? The Fleshpound tickler.
• Medic? I healed you for 20hp right before you were turned into a quivering pile of meat.
• Commando? Scar damage is good, but it isn't that good.
• Grenades aren't going to fill the gap with their lukewarm 250 + bonuses damage coupled with their prohibitively high cost.

Furthermore, what's going to happen in a tight map when 2 Fleshpounds walk around the corner? Demo is out of the picture for meaningful damage in close combat for solutions that don't involve blowing themselves up. That leaves Sharpshooter and perks that are mostly gravy damage versus Fleshpounds.

I support nerfing the SS so they don't easily solo FPs anymore, but there has to be a redistribution of power to balance such a change. As I've said time and again, giving players some kind of limited dodge or block ability is an ideal solution because it increases survivability without granting solo-ability: skilled dodges or blocks can help a player survive long enough for the team to kill the FP even without the ideal perks: using the ideal perks works better, but you still have a reasonable shot at survival without them; it is a solution that alleviates one problem without amping up squad damage output and reducing the threat of other zeds in the rest of the wave. Blocking/Dodging makes room for player skill, not stat abuse.

 

[ro_sauce]

what difficulty are you guys playing on? normal? just play a harder difficulty and your woes will be gone.

 

[Slappy Cromwell]

they should remove the random rage aswell

Yes, bringing back even more kiting is sure to make the Fleshpound fearsome again. Watching a single medic effortlessly outrun a Fleshpound-train around the entire map occasionally making one or two pot shots was the best, wasn't it?

Who's going to fill the gap in 6-man suicidal?

Here's a novel idea: Why doesn't everyone on the team shoot the Fleshpound at the same time? Believe it or not, 6-man suicidal means that it is quite likely you'll have other people with their own guns that could help you! A lone SCAR, flamethrower, or AA12 might not do quite enough damage by themselves to drop a Fleshpound, but imagine if their powers were combined! They would be a mighty force to be reckoned with! And while one of these three guys manages to take the Fleshpound's attention, another person with a chainsaw could easily be thrown into the mix to pepper in some extra damage with few saw swipes (Or heck, even block the damn Fleshpound entirely since said specimens rage after one person). Add in a medic to heal anyone who may have been hurt in the ordeal (this is what medics generally do) and you've got yourself a recipe for a dead Fleshpound using the magic of teamwork.

Hey, this sounds like the making of a neat co-op survival horror game, doesn't it? Unfortunately, one Sharpshooter doing the job of five players does little to support such tactics.

 

[nath2009uk]

I say revert to the ways of 2.1

No rage, but atleast 20 a wave.

 

[Temstar]

You can't all shoot at the fleshpound, that's how fleshpound kills teams in the first place: everyone focus on it and they die soon after the fleshpound goes down because they get mobbed by 20 gorefast and crawlers that they haven't been killing.

 

[CandleJack]

they should remove the random rage aswell

>>

Yes, bringing back even more kiting is sure to make the Fleshpound fearsome again. Watching a single medic effortlessly outrun a Fleshpound-train around the entire map occasionally making one or two pot shots was the best, wasn't it?

I think you missed some of the quote, here's the whole quote put in context so you don't look like a fool pulling out of context.

they should remove the random rage aswell and put the old system back, except instead of having it a certain amount of damage within a few seconds, just have it so when hes been damaged by about 400 - 600, then he rages, no timer or anything.

And i agree with this.

 

[Ebay]

Burning a zed should make it take significantly more damage, which would help making the firebug viable in the later wave, as a "Big Baddies softener"

 

[slavek]

"Level of aggression 11 12!"

Nerfing SS/Xbow would help. (Lets leave that part alone though)

I remember back in the mod days though, when Law/Grenades were the bread/butter for taking down FPs.

I think if TW balances things out in an update, FPs will become tougher. I also heard someone mention giving the FP a AOE attack.

 

[Slappy Cromwell]

I think you missed some of the quote, here's the whole quote put in context so you don't look like a fool pulling out of context.

Or maybe if you actually bothered to read his post, you'd realize SMIFF here wants to bring back the exact same behavior that made the Fleshpound a complete kiting joke. Removing the "random" rages (which are not random but rather triggered by a clear line of sight of his target and the time/distance he travels towards him) but changing the damage threshold slightly at which he rages is no different than how the Fleshpound used to be before.

In case you aren't privy to those days (which it seems pretty obvious you aren't), Medics would just collect long lines of Fleshpounds by kiting them around the map. Fleshpounds didn't "randomly" rage, so it was piss easy to collect hordes of them at one's convenience. Eventually these kiting Medics would take a few pot shots that the Fleshpounds would rage at, but the Fleshpounds would always hit their rage "timeout" before actually damaging the Medic. Thus, Medics (and Berserkers if they felt like it) had no trouble taking on dozens of simultaneous Fleshpounds since they were in complete control of when and which of them raged.

This type of kiting can still (and does) happen now, but at least with the newly introduced "random" rages, Fleshpounds have a slight chance of catching the runners.

 

[omarfw]

agreed, i want to fear the fleshpound again. i don't wanna have to wait for the firepound to have an "oh sh**" moment again.

this is a HORROR GAME. not rainbow six with zombies! it should be hard! suicidal should not be beatable lest you have a team of godlike players!

 

[CandleJack]

Or maybe if you actually bothered to read his post, you'd realize SMIFF here wants to bring back the exact same behavior that made the Fleshpound a complete kiting joke. Removing the "random" rages (which are not random but rather triggered by a clear line of sight of his target and the time/distance he travels towards him) but changing the damage threshold slightly at which he rages is no different than how the Fleshpound used to be before.

In case you aren't privy to those days (which it seems pretty obvious you aren't), Medics would just collect long lines of Fleshpounds by kiting them around the map. Fleshpounds didn't "randomly" rage, so it was piss easy to collect hordes of them at one's convenience. Eventually these kiting Medics would take a few pot shots that the Fleshpounds would rage at, but the Fleshpounds would always hit their rage "timeout" before actually damaging the Medic. Thus, Medics (and Berserkers if they felt like it) had no trouble taking on dozens of simultaneous Fleshpounds since they were in complete control of when and which of them raged.

This type of kiting can still (and does) happen now, but at least with the newly introduced "random" rages, Fleshpounds have a slight chance of catching the runners.

I know that medics did that, but you don't see to get the point of Smiff's post. What he is saying is to bring it back - with a difference.
DUN DUN DUNNNN

He is proposing there be a limit to how much damage can be done to them - period - before they rage. Not "shoot them twice, run a few secs, shoot them again" This would work for a while, but once you deal 400 damage to them, BAM! They rage regardless.

I support this idea.

 

[bstm300]

Take us back to the old times plz

Take us back to the old times plz

That's not the problem. The issue happened in the last huge update. They made each difficulty as if it was the next one higher. Thus, easy was normal, normal was hard, and hard was suicide. They then nerfed the FP's so they could be head shotted easily, effectively making the gorefasts stronger versus the beserker. Personally, I think playing on those all gorefast servers is much tougher than playing against them mixed in a variety with other enemies. Lastly, I think the gorefasts should be weakened, flesh pounds should take more crossbow shots to kill, and more mid-high difficulty zombies like the scrake should be created to add variety.

Last suggestion: eliminate the demoman class altogether. It makes leveling firebug and beserker absolutely pointless given how many more low-level zombies the demoman can kill even before these other two classes can get off a shot.

I say just have the demoman's item's as additional weapons you can purchase.

 

[SMIFF]

Yes, bringing back even more kiting is sure to make the Fleshpound fearsome again. Watching a single medic effortlessly outrun a Fleshpound-train around the entire map occasionally making one or two pot shots was the best, wasn't it?

But people only kited him because of the 2 shot tactic, if you cared to read my post i said get rid of that 2 shot tactic, and make him rage whenever hes took 400 damage or something.

the auto rage doesnt give enough time to assemble your team to take him down all together in most cases, so thats why people just end up crossbow'ing him instead, if the auto rage was gone and crossbow damage was reduced then people will have to use teamwork.

Thats my thoery anyway.

EDIT. Oh, and thanks candlejack for clearing that up lol

 

[HaTeMe]

Teamwork was always the key beating a fleshpound before, which is a principle that unfortuately is no longer needed.

Indeed, its kinda boring that when ever someone yells "FLESHPOUND!!", you turn around and its already dead because some lonesome SS either one shotted it with a crossbow or took it down with m14 before it even had a chance to rage.

it should take at least 3 crossbow shots to decap him, like it used too.

they should remove the random rage aswell and put the old system back, except instead of having it a certain amount of damage within a few seconds, just have it so when hes been damaged by about 400 - 600, then he rages, no timer or anything.

3 bolts seems reasonable, altho Im not sure wether removing the random rage is a good idea. Maybe for normal... But I still support removing the damage timer, because you can actually just shoot a fleshpound, hide, and shoot it again, hide... until its dead, and never raged. It should rage when it receives just enough damage, like scrakes do, but a lot earlier around when they have 90% hp left or something.

I definitely support this, however, there should also be a limit of 1 fleshpound spawned at a time.

No... that would make it too easy again.

what difficulty are you guys playing on? normal? just play a harder difficulty and your woes will be gone.

I play suicidal daily and the fleshpounds are NOTHING against a lvl 6 sharpshooter. They arent even a threat to a medic with crossbow because you have more than enough time to finish it off before it ever reaches you. 1 bolt to the head from a distance, another bolt when it performs the rage animation and last bolt when its running towards you.

But, perhaps it will become harder again when the new update is released.

 

[Slappy Cromwell]

He is proposing there be a limit to how much damage can be done to them - period - before they rage. Not "shoot them twice, run a few secs, shoot them again" This would work for a while, but once you deal 400 damage to them, BAM! They rage regardless.

But people only kited him because of the 2 shot tactic, if you cared to read my post i said get rid of that 2 shot tactic, and make him rage whenever hes took 400 damage or something.

I see two things here:

1. You (both of you) have no idea how the original rage system worked.
2. You didn't read my post.

Fleshpound rages caused due to damage have a "timeout" period, causing them to only rage for a limited amount of time. This means they just give up charging their target and go back to walking. This is why Medics kited Fleshpounds: any perk could outrun walking Fleshpounds, but Medics are able to run fast enough to even outlast the Fleshpound's limited rage duration.

Your proposed "difference" in the damage threshold at which they rage has absolutely no consequence whatsoever. It would still return Fleshpounds to being the absolute jokes they once were.