AA12 shotgun needs buffing

[Shalashaska]

I see your Havohej and I raise you an Immortal:

YouTube - Immortal - Noctambulant

I see your Immortal and raise you an Emperor:

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[sighpie]

I'd like to see them add two more clips to the AA12 and lower the price by 1k. It would then be balanced.


Other stuff:

M14 - bump price to match AA12, lower ammo by about 4 clips drop damage by say 10-20%

Grenades - Cut cost by 25% for all.

M32/M79 - speed reload by ~30% for level 6 demo.

I like this but the m14 nerf is overkill.

4 scrakes and 4 fp's in a really late wave. Youve already used your 5 clips on the first lot, when all your other classes still have ammo to spare. Yes hes support but sitting back is pretty boring in the late waves when you just see sharps rape everything around you.

 

[robdude19]

AA12 has enough ammo, just dont use it like a SCAR and it'll last fine. Mainly, use the shotgun to handle most of the zeds and whip out the AA12 for extra firepower when you need it. Dual handcannons, a katana, an MP7 or even an M79 make a good 3rd weapon. AA12 is balanced well, especially considering the Support's ridiculous loadout options. Its the SCAR and M14 that need an ammo reduction. 200 rounds for SCAR, 140-160 for M14.

 

[CandleJack]

black metal is such a joke lol. but if thats your sort of thing - theres way better stuff going on than just dimmu borgir, which to me is like the starbucks of black metal.

heres the good stuff:

YouTube - Havohej-Weeping In Heaven

Kinda ok, but i'm more into symphonic black metal.

And as someone said, a mag size increase would be nice. 32 rounds anyone?

 

[Nanostrike]

I'm not the balance expert here, but it needs SOMETHING to really own and be a "YOU NEED THIS GUN" element of a class like the M14, Crossbow, or SCAR. Right now, you can arguably get the same result with skillful use of the Hunting Shotgun/Shotgun combo as you can with a Shotgun/AA12 combo...

The AA12 needs one or more of the following, even if in minor amounts:
-Reduction of spread. It's absolutely useless beyond a few yards, with a range really comparable to the Hunting Shotgun.
-More pellets. Only 5 pellets is kinda sad. It's not even packing as much lead as the basic shotty!
-Price Reduction
-Ammo size increase. You'd be shocked how fast you can burn through 80 shells when the crap hits the fan.

 

[[UIT] Akame]

"YOU NEED THIS GUN" [...] same result with skillful use of the Hunting Shotgun/Shotgun combo as you can with a Shotgun/AA12 combo...
[...]
-More pellets. Only 5 pellets is kinda sad. It's not even packing as much lead as the basic shotty!
[...]
-Ammo size increase. You'd be shocked how fast you can burn through 80 shells when the crap hits the fan.

First, with how much support can carry a gun of the same caliber as the EBR or SCAR would cause support to auto-win. The trade-off between HS and AA12 is initial price vs ammo costs slightly but more importantly long-lasting burst damage versus quick mob control.

At level 0/6-
HS
Cost-750/225
Ammo-500/NA
DPS-163(no buff including reload, point-blank, no miss, no headshot)

AA12
Cost-4000/1200
Ammo-120
DPS-421(no buff including reload, point-blank, no miss, no headshot)

Second, you get an ammo buff as support so you really have 120 shells as level 6.

Third, the spread, pellets, and ammo are so that the AA12 isn't the auto-rage gun. There isn't a better gun to have when sh*t hits the fan and you have to spray-and-pray into a mob of specs.

 

[smilin]

AA12 has enough ammo, just dont use it like a SCAR and it'll last fine. Mainly, use the shotgun to handle most of the zeds and whip out the AA12 for extra firepower when you need it. Dual handcannons, a katana, an MP7 or even an M79 make a good 3rd weapon. AA12 is balanced well, especially considering the Support's ridiculous loadout options. Its the SCAR and M14 that need an ammo reduction. 200 rounds for SCAR, 140-160 for M14.

I'f you're calling for a SCAR ammo reduction I suspect you don't play suicidal. I have to buy a 2nd SCAR (or AK minimum) during mid waves to have extra ammo laying around during the late waves.

M14 on the other hand I think could use an ammo drop. Shot for shot it hits harder than the SCAR. It's more suited to the fewer large specimens than the many smaller. Lower ammo should be used to offset the damage.

The AA12 is overpriced and doesn't have nearly enough ammo. If you use it like a pump shotgun then the ammo lasts all wave..but fvck you might as well buy a pump shotgun then. If you use it aggressively to get the real power out of it you'll be out of ammo in 1/4 a wave. Not sure WTF is the point of having a fully automatic weapon if you don't get the ammo to back it up.

 

[9_6]

AA12 has enough ammo, just dont use it like a SCAR and it'll last fine. Mainly, use the shotgun to handle most of the zeds and whip out the AA12 for extra firepower when you need it. Dual handcannons, a katana, an MP7 or even an M79 make a good 3rd weapon. AA12 is balanced well, especially considering the Support's ridiculous loadout options. Its the SCAR and M14 that need an ammo reduction. 200 rounds for SCAR, 140-160 for M14.

Eh, I'd not throw the SCAR and the M14 into the same pot.
The commando is the most balanced perk right now, it should be left as it is.

Also the AA12 is fine, I don't see how it's to weak or too strong.

 

[HaTeMe]

The only thing I agree about in some extend, is the prize reduction. AA12 isnt rly better than scar or m14 so why its so expensive , should be equal.

While AA12 might need less ammo to take out a sh1tload of smaller enemies, it got only 4 clips anyway where scar got what 12-15 something in beetween. So, overall scar would last longer, even if you tried to line up all the enemies in front of you to save up ammo on AA12.

So I say the weapon is balanced but the prize isnt.

 

[macready84464]

AA12 is fine
Scar is fine
M14 needs half ammo supply
xbow needs to be good only in the hands of a SS

 

[nath2009uk]

Above - win.

Xbow needs some sway and not have stupid headshot damage.

M14 needs the crosshairs taking away.

 

[CandleJack]

Ok, so how about 6 mags with 32 shells each?
And a recoil reduction. I saw a guy on YouTube shoot an AA12 one-handed. I'm not saying dual-wield it (though that'd be cool), i'm just saying that if someone can use it one handed with very little recoil then surely two hands would have next to none.

And give the LS to the LAR.

 

[TheHateMaster]

AA12 is just fine the way it is.
It takes me 14-16 shots with AA12 to take down a Flesh Pound Suicidal as a level 5 Support. Don't know how people with a higher rank than me use 2 clips to take one down.

FP has more than 5k hp and 50% dmg reduction. With 16 shots you'll likely touch only half of that.

This is where I must call bull on your ludicrous claim. Even with aimbot you won't deal enough damage.

Unless you omitted vital info; ie already injured FP or single player Suicidal.

Tons of experienced players using lvl 6 support need nades, 2 HS blasts, AND a full clip of AA12 to take out a Suicidal FP, yet you're calling something radically different.

 

[TheHateMaster]

AA12 has enough ammo, just dont use it like a SCAR and it'll last fine. Mainly, use the shotgun to handle most of the zeds and whip out the AA12 for extra firepower when you need it. Dual handcannons, a katana, an MP7 or even an M79 make a good 3rd weapon. AA12 is balanced well, especially considering the Support's ridiculous loadout options. Its the SCAR and M14 that need an ammo reduction. 200 rounds for SCAR, 140-160 for M14.

200 rounds for SCAR means only 9 clips. SCAR ammo is freaking expensive as it is, maybe a reduction to 12 would be the better middle ground.

For m14, ammo reduction by itself will not solve the issues because it's so cheap. Players can just hoard m14s and throw them around everywhere. It needs to have fire rate and recoil nerfed.


AA12 is not balanced well; it may have that elusive "emergency use" but really, it blows. It's barely an upgrade over the classic Support loadout, but costs you something insane.

The sheer price of the AA12 alone should justify it having enough ammo to last for more than 1/3 of the wave. 3 additional clips, accompanied by an increase in ammo price to 25, would round it out nicely.

What is the point of a full-auto shotgun if you're just going to use pump shotty for 2/3 of the wave, and the AA12 only for isolated/rare situations whereby ZEDs overrun you?

 

[Galslacht]

I'm not the balance expert here, but it needs SOMETHING to really own and be a "YOU NEED THIS GUN" element of a class like the M14, Crossbow, or SCAR. Right now, you can arguably get the same result with skillful use of the Hunting Shotgun/Shotgun combo as you can with a Shotgun/AA12 combo...

The AA12 needs one or more of the following, even if in minor amounts:
-Reduction of spread. It's absolutely useless beyond a few yards, with a range really comparable to the Hunting Shotgun.
-More pellets. Only 5 pellets is kinda sad. It's not even packing as much lead as the basic shotty!
-Price Reduction
-Ammo size increase. You'd be shocked how fast you can burn through 80 shells when the crap hits the fan.

It's a support class, remember? Doesnt need to have lots of ammo or buffing imho.

 

[[UIT] Akame]

FP has more than 5k hp and 50% dmg reduction. With 16 shots you'll likely touch only half of that.

((30 damage*5 pellets)*20 rounds in a clip)*1.5 shotgun damage at lv 5
=4500/2 bullet resistance = 2225
FP HP=1500+375/player*1.75 suicidal modifier = 6k HP

Not sure WTF is the point of having a fully automatic weapon if you don't get the ammo to back it up.

So you don't have god mode on? Since there are many ways to deal with FPs any more, mobs are more the issue. In this regard the AA12 is a beast at dealing with mobs except for the ammo consideration. So give it more ammo and you will win at everything forever.

 

[sighpie]

Im not saying that the damage needs to be upped as much as the other guns, but there needs to be some sort of equality to them. Lower the power of the other ones, or buff it by other means.
It makes it so boring while you sit there and watch sharps (maybe commandos) decimate anything that comes towards them - If you change something it would give it some purpose to go help.

Less spread and maybe more penetration would do it, without going over the top.

 

[robdude19]

@ sighpie, buffing the AA12 won't make it comparable to the SCAR and M14 in terms of range. On maps with long hallways, you won't get much use out of the AA12, but on maps where the enemy spawns close to you (like the side of the Bio Labs camp spot) then the AA12 really shines and stops the team from being overrun during critical high traffic moments.

Ok, so how about 6 mags with 32 shells each?
And a recoil reduction. I saw a guy on YouTube shoot an AA12 one-handed. I'm not saying dual-wield it (though that'd be cool), i'm just saying that if someone can use it one handed with very little recoil then surely two hands would have next to none.

And give the LS to the LAR.

Glad to see my laser sight to LAR idea getting some love.

I just watched the youtube video, the guy could barely control a 4 shot burst one handed. If the recoil were reduced in game it would be too powerful but ammo would run out even faster since people would use full auto more. If you had enough ammo to use the AA12 all the time, there would be no challenge left. Ammo conservation is a huge (and necessary) part of Support perk strategy.

So you don't have god mode on? Since there are many ways to deal with FPs any more, mobs are more the issue. In this regard the AA12 is a beast at dealing with mobs except for the ammo consideration. So give it more ammo and you will win at everything forever.

Exactly. Why aren't people getting this?

AA12 is fine
Scar is fine
M14 needs half ammo supply
xbow needs to be good only in the hands of a SS

Spot on.

 

[dextronaut]

AA12 is fine
Scar is fine
M14 needs half ammo supply
xbow needs to be good only in the hands of a SS

exactly!

on top of that i suggest taking away the laser sight to somewhat curve the hip firing spam

 

[robdude19]

Yeah, take away laser sight and put it on the LAR. The LAR could use a buff anyway since it's rarely used and the ammo is low.