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Suicidal Balance

I've seen many 3 stars make it out a whole long game on suicidal. The perklevel isnt that crucial, it is the weapons that are.

It should not be that way imho.
And you can get higher weapons that much more quickly at level 6 than at 3 or else you'd have to rely on others to give you their important money starting around wave 5-6 depending on their own perk (if they are medic or berserker they might have more to spare). If you join late then you don't spawn with anything other than the standard and it would take many waves to get enough money assuming you don't die and just hang out not doing much but contributed to more zeds spawning. The only three star that doesn't really matter is sharpshooter, they can contribute.
 
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To me, that's unacceptable. And trust me when I say that I am more than patient with new players and those who want to learn more.

Just YES. Always thats it which kill us. (lv1 are beginner, no experimented player then the most of time they say "where is dropp weapon".......LOOOOOOOOL before i play any games, i look the setting)
 
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The majority in this thread have said this. But if you look at previous thread about this there are a huge number of people who think that there are other less intrusive ways to limit the chance of poor players joining suicidal.

In this regard most people previously agreed that there was a large number of lv 0-1 players joining suicidal not realizing how difficult it was because it appeared on the server browser with low ping. With current game state any perk level can run suicidal with help purchasing from a levl 5 or 6 but level 3 or 4 should at least be an acceptable addition to the team. Because a huge issue is based on a mistake: set the default server filter to normal and/or to have a message to let people know they are joining a difficult server (which can be disabled by checkbox).

You are restricting players based on a poor measure of their ability and encouraging players that have high levels but not necessarily ability (ie grinding rather than playing).

He's right, the general consensus last time was that server-side perk level filters was too restrictive and not welcoming to new players. We want to encourage new players to get into the game, not scare them off. Most new players join Suicidal/Hard servers by accident. Setting a server search filter to Normal difficulty by default would prevent this without being overly restrictive or elitist.
 
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I personally believe setting default server browsing to normal (or even beginner) is a somewhat obvious solution for the 'oh I didn't know' lot.

As for the rest of them, I think the proactive solutions are too restrictive, which means a reactive solution is more appropriate. With me on this one? Kick them from the server. I think it's the admin's responsibility to enable kick voting on servers that might, you know, want to kick someone.

This allows the (presumably) experienced players to determine if the low level (or high level) person is worth keeping or if he is going to get everyone killed. I think this minimizes the occurrence of people who actually know what they're doing getting restricted from playing harder difficulties, while still having the option to remove those who aren't contributing enough.

The primary unresolved issue I see is someone joining before a wave, starting the wave (and thus having contributed to the ZED count and health pools), and only afterward it's discovered that he shouldn't be there. He gets kicked, but that does not reverse the damage he's caused (which can be catastrophic if he gets the chance to enrage a Fleshpound). I don't guess dynamic ZED-count/health pool adjustments are possible?
 
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You don't have to. Kick them.

please be sure to quote full sentences to keep everything in context, especially when digging up ancient posts. at first glance i couldn't even figure out what point you were trying to counter as the quoted portion doesn't even clarify what my original statement was saying ;)

anyway, on the point of kicking players, how hypocritical is it for people to aruge that the server/game shouldn't be allowed to prevent people from joining, yet they say you should instead just kick players out? either way you are removing the ability for a person to play in that server. i'd opt to have the GAME prevent them from joining as opposed to making it personal between server admins and players, or between a player and other players (in a vote kick). players actually joining the server and seeing the names of the people that kick them makes that situation much more personal and insulting. i agree for allowing players/admins to kick problem players due "asshatery" (generally speaking), but they shouldn't have to be forced with the decision to kick players due to their lack of experience or "skil".

i mean, it's much more of a dis is it to new players to have them join a server just to be kicked by an admin or vote kicked by the other players than it would be for the game to just not allow them to join a high difficulty server in the first place.

now again all this is based off the theoritical notion that perk ranks are accurate indicators of a players' experience and "skill". the problem is that with having a flawed perk system, ranks become irrelivant as a substancial amount of players were allowed to just grind their perks and never truely learned how to play the game. my suggestion would be to focus on finding a solution to that problem so that implimenting server restrictions based on perks would actually have some validity :)
 
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i mean, it's much more of a dis is it to new players to have them join a server just to be kicked by an admin or vote kicked by the other players than it would be for the game to just not allow them to join a high difficulty server in the first place.

You bring up an excellent ethical question; With kicking as a reactive solution, you have the problem of it being subject to the individuals voting to kick. While a proactive solution would be more 'polite', I think that you have to rely on the etiquette of the 'experienced' players already on the server to handle it.

Assuming you change default server browsing, the person joining almost certainly knows it's a higher difficulty, and if his performance isn't up to par those present -should- ask him to leave before kicking him. However, the internet is anonymous, and in the end anything you do in a public server is subject to nothing besides your personal values.

Would preventing the person from joining eliminate the (universally) undesirable situation of kicking the person? Yes, but you have to consider how effective the solution is, and the context of the ethics as relates to the rest of the game. Specifically, you prevent lower-leveled but above-average players from experiencing the harder difficulties, and if an unskilled high-level person joins, you still (presumably) end up kicking them, which still has the same ethical issues attached.

i agree for allowing players/admins to kick problem players due "asshatery" (generally speaking), but they shouldn't have to be forced with the decision to kick players due to their lack of experience or "skill".

While everyone is familiar with the distinction between them, the exact difference between inexperienced, unskilled, and subtly asshattish isn't written down anywhere, and in any vote kick the persons kicking are still making the decision based off of their values and perception of the situation. Is the decision forced on the players present? Yes. but it always is in a vote kick, and preventing lower level perks from joining higher difficulty servers won't eliminate the need to vote kick people.

Overall, while I think the ethical question is valid, it applies universally as opposed to this specific problem, and therefore should not merit precedence over the problem itself.
 
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An idea that springs to mind that may or may not be applicable in KF, but is good nonetheless.

A player rating system.

Such as, you see a L6 sharpshooter playing in suicidal, or normal, and has clearly powerlevelled their way to their perk's level. In suicidal a player like this can cause disastrous consequences for simply being there.

With this you could rate a player's performance from 0 to 6, reflecting how well they play, not necessarily how high their perks are. I chose seven ranks to reflect the levels in the perk; and each rating could be perk-specific in order to show a player's skill in each perk.

A problem i have seen with this is that people could abuse this very easily, they could see someone playing in a contradictory manner to their preferred style and rank them down because of it.

In spite of this, i came up with this to try and solve the problem of noobs with high perks; but this could be used to rank up a low-levelled player to show they have skill beyond their perk's level.

I now hand this idea over to you. :)

EDIT: And yet again my helpful ideas get ignored. :\
 
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You bring up an excellent ethical question; With kicking as a reactive solution, you have the problem of it being subject to the individuals voting to kick. While a proactive solution would be more 'polite', I think that you have to rely on the etiquette of the 'experienced' players already on the server to handle it.

that's a valid point, but i honestly do not trust the average gamer to always act as "politely" as they should, which is why i favor a more proactive approach in not assuming that players will use proper etiquette.

Would preventing the person from joining eliminate the (universally) undesirable situation of kicking the person? Yes

yes, it would universally (or at least universally offer this solution for server admins) eliminate this problem, which is exactly why i posed the idea :)

Specifically, you prevent lower-leveled but above-average players from experiencing the harder difficulties, and if an unskilled high-level person joins, you still (presumably) end up kicking them, which still has the same ethical issues attached.

good points. so the first part, yes it's true about preventing lower-leveled but above-average players from playing at a harder level, BUT that would just be for a server set by the admin to prevent them joining. making the logical assumption that not every single server admin would use this setting, players would still have other servers on a more difficult level available to play in.

for the opposite with unskilled high-level players joining and end up getting kicked, it's true that people would still end up facing that ethical decision, which again idealy players would be polite and use proper etiquette (sadlythis not always guaranteed). at the very least, we make an attempt to avoid that issue, which even though it may still occur, there was some effort to prevent it.

Overall, while I think the ethical question is valid, it applies universally as opposed to this specific problem, and therefore should not merit precedence over the problem itself.

well, any issue that universally applies to the game in any form should result in even the most basic attempt to prevent or minimize the effects of that issue. giving server admins the option to set their server to restrict admittance to low-leved perks at least helps eliminate the possibilty for a situation to arise where an unskilled low-level player is allowed to join and pose the ethical question of having to kick them. i'm not suggesting that more focus should be on this issue as there's a more specific and larger issue behind it, BUT if there's a relatively easy way to address the issue that could provide some assistance then it'd be wise to impliment it.

granted the specific problem of getting unskilled players on hard difficulty servers is still present, the potential of that happening is reduced to a degree. as stated above, the specific problem is still the consequence of a flawed rank system that can result in unskilled (regardless of level) players ruining games. it's also important to note that if the ranking system was designed to accurately reflect the "skill" or players, then in theory we should never see "unskilled high-leveled" or "skilled low-leveled" players as players without skill would never get higher ranked perks and players with skill would never be stuck with low ranked perks and would instead rise to the top at a quicker rate. unfortunately, that's something that is out of our hands and is the responsibility of TW to address
 
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