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Free aim on iron sights needs to go

OK, now thats a rather good idea actually.

When in normal ironsights mode you have freeaim, but in a way smaller area than from the hip. (put your hand on the desktop and draw a rough circle around it, thats around the ammount i mean)

When in concentration mode you have no freeaim at all.


I hate RnL's 3 aiming modes. Makes aiming slow and clumsy.


If there is an option, it should be like this:

You choose in the options menu whether there is free aim or not for iron sights.


No free aim will be like RO: Ost.

Actually, I think this would be the best compromise. Have both.

But please, no 3 stage RnL style aiming system.
 
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In real life, I can't move my rifle those sort of ways portrayed in a video game and still keep a good sight picture. How can you keep a sight picture with a gun that has independent movement from your head?
For the purpose of swinging through and/or finding the target's sweetspot, having your cheek firmly resting on the stock is what locks the sight picture in. Now once the trigger is pulled and shock/recoil is introduced, the process starts all over. But its not that difficult to keep a good sight picture (ie. aligned front/rear sights) for brief periods. The difficulty is getting that picture (ie aligned sights) where it needs to be. I would suppose that is where the free aim comes in. I just have a hard time visualizing playing a game that causes my front sights to lag/lead my rear sights. That would just give me motion sickness.
 
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The thing is that with free aim in iron sights you can angle in such a way that you can see further then looking at something straight on.

In essence, you can see people and engage them before they can.

Anyhow, in reality, yes, your irons are unaligned if you put them down from your center of view. But if you simulated that, you'd end up with massive problems of "omg impossible to get a straight shot"

Also, remember the fact that your FOV is drastically reduced, so what seems like a lot of free aim is really quite little in reality.
 
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The first two posts were spot on.

All free aim when using iron sights does is make it feel unnatural and make aiming that much more difficult that it is compared to real life.

And considering this game is based on realism, I think it should be removed.

The movement already present in the original RO is already enough.



If anyone is unconvinced, pick up a rifle (or airsoft one will do), aim down the sights and turn and aim at different things.

Even the amount shown in the video feels like too much. Really, as I mentioned above, all it does is make it harder and less natural to aim.

Harder does not equal realism.

I say remove free aim from the iron sights.




We're talking about free aim when using the iron sights. Yes, when you are aiming, you are supposed to look at the sights. That is the point of the iron sight mode.



A bit off topic....

While this is a valid point, it is actually too slow to bring the rifles up in RO Ost Front.

Yes, the rifle sights should move around and never be perfectly still, but in RO Ost it takes too long to pull the rifle up.

Take the STG-44 for example. I can hold an AR-15/AKM and have it pointing at the ground, to shouldering it and be looking down the sights quicker than it takes the soldiers in RO Ost to shoulder the STG-44 from the hip mode. They aren't STG-44s, but they are pretty similar. I am sure a trained soldier would be even quicker than someone like me, who has had zero training.
Woopsy i didnt read the post very well. been having swine flu for the past week and i havnt been performing clearly. :p

For some reason i thought we where talking about the character weapon movement when youre NOT aiming down sights. i thought the issue was he wanted a static aim even while not aiming down sights. Sorry
 
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Freeaim in Iron-Sites needs to stay!!!!!!!! Having a gun glue to your shoulder perfectly sighted in 1 second is not real at all.

I agree that once the weapon is adjusted in the center that the freeaim should be reduced.

Old RO:OST was plagued with laser accurate riflemen that could pop shot a fellow at 300 yards in 1 second.


It helps simulate real aim! Yes I have fired many guns.

It dousn't magically fix to your shoulder You have to adjust the gun! Get the center sighted.
Then and only then Free-aim should be reduced.

To Ro Devs. Please do not alter this feature!!!! KEEP freeaim in IS in!
 
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Freeaim in Iron-Sites needs to stay!!!!!!!! Having a gun glue to your shoulder perfectly sighted in 1 second is not real at all.

I agree that once the weapon is adjusted in the center that the freeaim should be reduced.

Old RO:OST was plagued with laser accurate riflemen that could pop shot a fellow at 300 yards in 1 second.


It helps simulate real aim! Yes I have fired many guns.

It dousn't magically fix to your shoulder You have to adjust the gun! Get the center sighted.
Then and only then Free-aim should be reduced.

To Ro Devs. Please do not alter this feature!!!! KEEP freeaim in IS in!

Keep it in and I doubt I'll enjoy the game enough to bother buying it.

I have been hearing way too many crazy ideas being thrown into the new Red Orchestra that it's no longer what I used to know it as and all of this is just detracting from what brought me into the game in the first place.

There's Acade-like game play, there's realistic game play, and then there's game play where you have more keys, more options, more features and things to take into account that completely ruin the actual purpose of it being a Video Game.

If you want to look around you in the game, move your mouse or come out of iron sights and look around.... use your ears to know where people are around you..... we already have free aim in hip mode, and now there's talk about adding it into the actual aiming in iron sights.

All that's going to happen is you're going to have a handful of people who can figure it out and become pros, and 90% of everybody else, mainly new players trying to figure out why they keep dying (more then they already are) and why they can't hit anything, get ticked off and stop playing the game.

I thought people wanted to bring in more players to the community not alienate more people from the game.

I like realism in a FPS probably as much as the next average joe.... but there has to be a limit before you completely take the fun out of the game entirely and it gets to the point where most players can't even get out of spawn without being killed or even worse, killing themselves.

The difference in real life compared to in game when it comes to aiming with iron sights is that yeah, your sights can get a little jumbled up if you don't know how to properly align yourself, breath properly, or hold an aiming pose for too long.... etc..... but as mentioned before, in the game you're supposed to be a trained soldier and should know how to do this stuff already.

Hey I got a great idea:

How about we make people manually bolt their rifles by holding down their fire-button and jerking their mouse in a similar movement that would resember bolting a real rifle with your hand and if you screw it up, it won't bolt, so you have to do it again?

How about halfway through the round your shoe lace gets untied and you trip, having to stop and re-tie your shoe?

I also think we need a button for blinking and the longer you go without blinking the more watery your vision becomes.

And get some foot peddles while we're at it so you can pump your feet in a breathing motion so you don't soffocate..... and if you don't pump fast enough while running, you pass out.... or if you pump/breath too much, you get a hyperventilate and pass out?

There should be a limit to exactly how much "Realism" one puts into the game and that limit should be determined based on how complicated it makes game play and if it will detract more to the overall enjoyment of the game to new players who are just getting into the game.

And I think we're reaching that limit.

As mentioned before, if people want 100% total realism.... join the military.

Added:

And in regards to people popping people with a bolt from 300 yards away with their first shot in a second of them going into IS.... I highly doubt you even knew if that was the case, since at that distance you probably couldn't even see what exactly they were doing or for how long. If you were focusing that hard on what they were actually doing, then no wonder why they got you in one shot.

I've even used the sniper rifles on a number of maps and at some long ranges I noticed the rounds drop lower then where my sights were and I had to compensate..... I imagine the same applies for rifleman as well, which means at that range, if they hit you on their first shot, it was either a lucky shot, or they have had a lot of practice.

Most everybody I have been shot by at a long distance are very lucky if they hit me with their first round and usually it's a sniper who does this. Everybody else usually pings rounds near me for the first little bit, and if I don't move after their first shot, usually their second will take me out..... seems decently realistic to me.
 
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I think the free aim in iron sights should stay. I did some experimenting of my own with a bolt action I have and found that free aim while shouldering the weapon is quite natural. My eyes followed the sights within a certain frame of reference. My torso didn't move that mach nor did my field of vision. It's more about where you are focused. Of course the degree of free aim is limited but from what I've seen in videos HOS has a very small range of free aim in IS.

I would also like to see a free look feature and full body awareness, as in arma.
 
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We have to try it (free aim on IS).
What I dislike, is, when you aim with IS standing near the window, you are unable to aim close to window frame, because your gun is colliding with this window frame. In RL I would move my body(or hands) a bit to be able to aim to required direction. Edit: Maybe I should do the same inside the game? Strafe?
 
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Praxius you just like complaining about every new feature and blow everything out of proportion...

If you want to play your perfect RO 2 do this:

1. Copy this folder "\Steam\steamapps\common\red orchestra" to a DVD

2. Label it RO:HoS

3. Enjoy =)

No, I don't like just complaining about everything.

I don't like people whiping up every random idea out of their butt thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread all for the sake of saying sometime down the road "oh that was my idea" regardless if it was a foolish idea or not, or if they ever bothered to look at the overall big picture of what will actually happen to the game when put in.

This is a thread about the Iron Sights and free looking while in them, everybody else is voicing their opinion on it, so shall I..... last I checked, I'm allowed to do that just as much as you, regardless if you like it or not.

Unlike some people in here, I actually have background education on the subject of animation and game design, so I tend to know a bit more about what I am talking about then some others.

Regardless of my knowledge, this is my opinion and I think the idea is stupid.... I explained why.... don't like it? Too late now, it's out there.

In the game you go into iron sights in order to aim at a target and shoot it.... if you want to look around, move your mouse or go out of iron sights and move.

I used a few rifles in my day as well and I know all about the angles this, and moving your head that.... in the game and in Iron sights, if I want to aim with the current system I focus my vision on my sights..... if I want to see around my focal point while in iron sights, I use my damn eyeballs that are in my head and look elsewhere on the screen, and if I need to look elsewhere, I move my mouse to look or I go out of iron sights and move.

Why someone thinks we need several more options of how to look around is beyond me.
 
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no, i don't like just complaining about everything.

I don't like people whiping up every random idea out of their butt thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread all for the sake of saying sometime down the road "oh that was my idea" regardless if it was a foolish idea or not, or if they ever bothered to look at the overall big picture of what will actually happen to the game when put in.

This is a thread about the iron sights and free looking while in them, everybody else is voicing their opinion on it, so shall i..... Last i checked, i'm allowed to do that just as much as you, regardless if you like it or not.

Unlike some people in here, i actually have background education on the subject of animation and game design, so i tend to know a bit more about what i am talking about then some others.

Regardless of my knowledge, this is my opinion and i think the idea is stupid.... I explained why.... Don't like it? Too late now, it's out there.

In the game you go into iron sights in order to aim at a target and shoot it.... If you want to look around, move your mouse or go out of iron sights and move.

I used a few rifles in my day as well and i know all about the angles this, and moving your head that.... In the game and in iron sights, if i want to aim with the current system i focus my vision on my sights..... If i want to see around my focal point while in iron sights, i use my damn eyeballs that are in my head and look elsewhere on the screen, and if i need to look elsewhere, i move my mouse to look or i go out of iron sights and move.

Why someone thinks we need several more options of how to look around is beyond me.

... =)
 
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I think the free aim in iron sights should stay. I did some experimenting of my own with a bolt action I have and found that free aim while shouldering the weapon is quite natural. My eyes followed the sights within a certain frame of reference. My torso didn't move that mach nor did my field of vision. It's more about where you are focused. Of course the degree of free aim is limited but from what I've seen in videos HOS has a very small range of free aim in IS.

I would also like to see a free look feature and full body awareness, as in arma.

Then you dont know how to use a rifle, because as long as you focus on the sights, there is no way on earth they move out of the center of your vision :rolleyes:
 
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Then you dont know how to use a rifle, because as long as you focus on the sights, there is no way on earth they move out of the center of your vision :rolleyes:


Actually, I do know how to use a rifle. Within a limited range the rifle will move separately from the torso. While your eyes follow the sights, your head does not. Your field of vision is limited, by the surrounding eye sockets, and the bridge of the nose, etc.. Therefor, as your eye rotates, your focus changes within that field of vision. If you exceed that range then the torso and head will naturally need to move with it.

If you're are not trying it yourself then you won't get it.
 
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Actually, I do know how to use a rifle. Within a limited range the rifle will move separately from the torso. While your eyes follow the sights, your head does not. Your field of vision is limited, by the surrounding eye sockets, and the bridge of the nose, etc.. Therefor, as your eye rotates, your focus changes within that field of vision. If you exceed that range then the torso and head will naturally need to move with it.

If you're are not trying it yourself then you won't get it.

Your head will allways follow thw weapon.
 
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won't it always be in the center of your vision? when you shoot at something in IS your eyes are going to be fixed on the ironsights, maybe not in the center of your screen but who cares, your whole vision in RL shoudlnt be confined to your monitor anyway, you are not going to see anything that you shouldn't be able to see in RL
 
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Actually, I do know how to use a rifle. Within a limited range the rifle will move separately from the torso. While your eyes follow the sights, your head does not. Your field of vision is limited, by the surrounding eye sockets, and the bridge of the nose, etc.. Therefor, as your eye rotates, your focus changes within that field of vision. If you exceed that range then the torso and head will naturally need to move with it.

If you're are not trying it yourself then you won't get it.

So what is the difference between what you described and what happens when you move your eyeballs from where your IS are on screen to the surrounding area already in view?

Once you turn your head from where your rifle is aiming in IS, then there's no longer a use for being in IS mode.

There's a lot of times where I'll stay in Iron Sights view and move around & look around the rifle to see what's around me and if I see a target, then I move my IS view so that my IS is pointing right at the person I saw when I moved my eyes from my sights and then I can shoot.

For me, what my screen shows my eyes is moreso just the general direction my head is pointed, I am not automatically fixed to the center of the screen but looking all over the screen. If I want to turn my head, I move my mouse. When in IS mode, I am planning on aiming and shooting for the most part and when I move my view downward so my rifle is not obstructing my view, to me, it's more like lowering my rifle to see, but still being decently ready to fire if I need to, via quickly raising it up and aiming.

Question:

If there is a feature for you to turn your head and look around in Iron Sights mode, will this be something automatically on as soon as you hit IS in which you always have to compensate for it, or should someone have to hold a key in order to move your head around?

If you hold a key, then what happens when you release that key? Does your view remain where you left it, or does your view snap back into normal IS mode?

If it snaps back into normal IS mode, how fast will this transition be? Less then a second? More?

I think once we figure out exactly how it's going to be used in the game, we'll be able to focus more on the pros and cons of this feature in regards to overall gameplay, what it will benefit, what it may cause problems with, etc.

Right now it seems we're all basing our views on a short clip of the action, without actually knowing in detail how it's going to work in the game, which leads to debating all sorts of possibilities that may never be.

I think the only thing I could tollerate would be an option where you can hold a key and look around if you need to, while still remaining in IS and ready to shoot..... but when you let go, it should snap back to central IS view for aiming within perhaps one second or so so that people don't have to screw around making sure their head is in alignment again with their weapon.

That way the feature some want in the game is there and they can use it, while those who don't like it, don't have their normal gameplay they currently know in RO affected.
 
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