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Sharp is overpowered.

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#42
Personally, I've always thought that what was supposed to balance the crossbow is the price of the ammunition. But because of the sell/buyback technique, it remains an extremely cheap weapon. As a solution, I would suggest making the crossbow come with 20/40 bolts, so that if you try to buyback, you'll have to buy ammo anyway. This'll make it a consistently expensive weapon, which it should be considering how powerful it is.

I like the m14, leave it alone :D
 
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#43
I think giving the EBR a clip size of 10 while leaving the number of clips the same would balance it quite well, effectively cutting the ammo in half.
Don't see why they made it a 'SCAR in semi autofire only'- weapon anyway.

The crossbow is another story but that way, at least, the sharpie would be less of a sweeper and more of a careful spender like he should be.
 
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#44
In my opinion, I believe that just the M14 and xbow are overpowered, not the sharpshooter class.
I play as a medic with either the medic gun/M14/grenade launcher combo or medic gun/xbow combo. With the M14 combo, I could solo 6-player hard rounds easy. And with the medic gun/xbow I can easily headshot instakill everything except Flesh Pounds and Patriach hard mode.

My 2cents on how to balance this:
M14
Decrease clip size of M14
Xbow
Remove piercing effect
Or just give the ZEDs helmets.
 
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#45
9_6 said:
I think giving the EBR a clip size of 10 while leaving the number of clips the same would balance it quite well, effectively cutting the ammo in half.
Don't see why they made it a 'SCAR in semi autofire only'- weapon anyway.

The crossbow is another story but that way, at least, the sharpie would be less of a sweeper and more of a careful spender like he should be.
Click to expand...

I would much rather have it have half as many clips but keep the same capacity.

Even more than that though I'd rather just leave it alone. It's really not that overpowered. Compare it to the AA12.
 
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#47
9_6 said:
Are you kidding?
Click to expand...

No, I'm not. Many, many times I have heard people say "instead of using the m14 just be a Commando and use a Scar on semi-auto."

Let's break down that comparison. The Commando with the Scar is a far more effective sweeper. The it's got a better sight, it has a bigger clip, and it has a full-auto mode for emergencies. The only thing that the m14 has going for it is that it can take down the big enemies easier, but only if the player can consistently headshot them. If he can't, the Scar is better at that too, so you can add "ease of use" to the Scar list. (Even then, due to the full-auto mode, the m14's not that much better). Overall, the m14 is less effective than the Scar, and it has less ammo. You want to cut it down even more? Then it wouldn't be equal to the other top tier weapons.

Truly, I do not believe the m14 is overpowered when compared to the other top tier weapons. And the m14 is not what makes the Sharpshooter appear overpowered. The reason the Sharpshooter appears overpowered is because of the crossbow. See, every other class can pretty much only play in one way (medic being the other exception). The sharpshooter can play in two ways. He can be a jack of all trades, an OK sweeper who is capable of killing biggies with the m14, but who's not the best at any single thing, or he can be a big game hunter and take down the big guys with ease at the cost of being very weak against the horde. Individually there is nothing wrong with either of these playstyles, and fortunately there is no way for a single player to combine them due to the weight restrictions. The reason so many people are getting their panties in a bunch is that both these playstyles are available to a single class, and therefore people see twice as many sharpshooters as any other class.

However, there's nothing really wrong with it. Sharpshooters are really only the "best" at big-game hunting with the crossbow, their other possible role is far better fulfilled by a Commando, as talked about above.

People freak out because it's possible to beat a 6-man suicidal with 6 sharpshooters, but they're not all having the same role, 3 have crossbows and 3 have m14s. But what they don't understand is you don't need sharpshooters. You could beat the same game with 3 supports and 3 commandos. Or 2 zerkers (for scrakes), a demo (for fleshpounds), and 3 commandos (for the horde). Or drop out one of those commandos for a medic. Sharpshooters are really not that broken, anything they can do the other classes are equally capable of doing. Supports are capable of big-game hunting with the AA12, as are zerkers/demos for scrakes and fleshpounds respectively. And firebugs and commandos both make excellent sweepers. People are just freaked out because there's a lot of sharpshooters, they're really popular right now.

I would like to point out one balancing problem: the crossbow is WAY TOO CHEAP. For being a role-fulfilling weapon, it is simply too cheap. The ammo is supposed to balance that, but people just sell it and buy it back for a cheap reload. They should make the crossbow only come with 20/40 shots to make that ineffective, and so the ammo is a constant drain on cash throughout the game, like it should be for such an powerful weapon.

Probably the biggest problems class-balance wise are that the zerker is underpowered and the firebug doesn't have enough ammo to really do his job well.
 
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#48
Double_Deagle said:
Truly, I do not believe the m14 is overpowered when compared to the other top tier weapons. And the m14 is not what makes the Sharpshooter appear overpowered. The reason the Sharpshooter appears overpowered is because of the crossbow.
Click to expand...

Say what you want but a gun that can easily handle every single non-patriarch enemy in the game, that practically lets you kill an entire 6 man wave AND you still have 5 clips left after it, that has piss cheap ammo and that completely rends all other guns obsolete, being good in all imaginable situations is quite overpowered in my book.

The crossbow, while strong, has the drawback of not-so-much ammo, a rather wonky ironsight and a slow firerate, the SCAR isn't even nearly as strong as the m14 due to headshot bonus crazyness (if you can't hit heads, learn 2 aim. It's easy. Try not to spam bullets in the general direction of enemies like a support. Although you'll get away doing even that with this shooter.) and can run out of ammo due to autofire, the aa12 leaves you completely out of ammo after solo-blasting as much as 2 scrakes and 1 fleshpound and the grenade launchers are totally useless in close range and not even effective against all enemies.

Now what kind of drawback does the m14 actually have?
Except crappy ironsights which makes no sense considering what perk that weapon is there for.
 
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#49
9_6 said:
Say what you want but a gun that can easily handle every single non-patriarch enemy in the game, that practically lets you kill an entire 6 man wave AND you still have 5 clips left after it, that has piss cheap ammo and that completely rends all other guns obsolete, being good in all imaginable situations is quite overpowered in my book.

The crossbow, while strong, has the drawback of not-so-much ammo, a rather wonky ironsight and a slow firerate, the SCAR isn't even nearly as strong as the m14 due to headshot bonus crazyness (if you can't hit heads, learn 2 aim. It's easy. Try not to spam bullets in the general direction of enemies like a support. Although you'll get away doing even that with this shooter.) and can run out of ammo due to autofire, the aa12 leaves you completely out of ammo after solo-blasting as much as 2 scrakes and 1 fleshpound and the grenade launchers are totally useless in close range.

Now what kind of drawback does the m14 actually have?
Except crappy ironsights which makes no sense considering what perk that weapon is there for.
Click to expand...

Mm, actually, in retrospect, I would agree with an ammo drop, but maybe something like 4-6 less clips, not half the ammo gone. It is good, but all the new guns are good. The SCAR trades damage for having a full-auto mode, great sights, and more ammo, a single ammo box will give you back a QUARTER of the AA12's total ammo (one clip), which is just insane, and the grenade-launchers are capable of decimating both groups and fleshpounds up until close range, that's their balancing feature.

So like I said, I actually do agree with you that it could use an ammo nerf, I just think that you're going a bit overboard with it.
 
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#50
To the people that dont think the EBR is overpowered, you must have a very.....VERY terrible aim, that seems to be the only way.

You can one shot every weaker specimen

2 shot the scrake

and 3 shot the fleshpound (Hard).

and from my experience. The EBR is much better than the SCAR

but my commando is only level 3 so thats a bit of an unfair judgement right now.
 
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#51
Basically it boils down to this...

They fixed headshots, they fixed Sharpie....

before the M14's arrival I was a dab hand with the 9mm it was my favourite weapon

I hadn't practised enough with the dodgey hit-boxes to be able to one-shot FP's and Scrake with Xbow, now I can!

If you take away the M14 the sharpie will turn to the SCAR so it wont really affect anything.(my current Sharpie load out is M14,SCAR,MP7) double tapping headshots is just as effective as a single M14 round when you have a better sight.

If you wanted to reduce the ammo on the M14 you would need to drop it to like 60 rounds to even come close to running out of rounds....

but the reduction in rounds affects nothing when I can just drop a spare rifle on the ground


My current load out tactic is to have a friend with Commando and AK47/SCAR loadout
I go M14/SCAR and drop the SCAR for him when he runs low on ammo with his.....

We run suicidal with me level 6 sharpie and the rest a smattering of level 2-4 peeps levelling perks, I also have the xbow on the floor ready :) and usually get overwhelmed on wave 9

I guess good-team work makes a mockery of suicidal... but isnt that the whole point?
 
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#53
even a 5 round mag wouldn't halt its effectivness, the distance you are firing out to is generally sufficient that frequent reloads arent a problem.

All that would happen would be that if you required mass ammo spammage you would change to dual deagles, SCAR or let the team deal with the horde.

We would just adapt!
 
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#54
Dioxin said:
even a 5 round mag wouldn't halt its effectivness, the distance you are firing out to is generally sufficient that frequent reloads arent a problem.

All that would happen would be that if you required mass ammo spammage you would change to dual deagles, SCAR or let the team deal with the horde.

We would just adapt!
Click to expand...

You mentioning switching to a different weapon contradicts the first half of your post.
And if you use that thing as a long distance weapon, you're doing it wrong.
I can't hit **** with those terrible ironsights at a range that'd be perfectly fine with a crossbow.
 
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#58
First of all, whoever the hell doesn't think the M14 is overpowered is either a crappy player or is aiming to keep their cool points because of their SS skill.

The Xbow is OP as it is, 6x headshot damage, but the EBR is way worse.

I wish I could draw a diagram, but how's this

Crossbow with LVL 6 SS
40 bolts
Slow reload
High recoil
High weight
Can one shot headshot (multiples IF you're lucky)

EBR with LVL 6 SS
300 rounds
Fast reload
No recoil
Lower weight
Can headshot 10 fleshpounds on hard if done right WITH A SINGLE MAG


Now, if you can hold an EBR and a SCAR (lol to the person claiming to be able to hold an MP7 as well during SS play) at the same time, what is stopping you? Those 50% headshots with the SCAR act like slightly weaker EBR rounds as it is. You have basically ten fast firing crossbow bolts in your gun that have no recoil and you don't have to aim with anything but a big bright red dot.

Now, do you NOT see how crappy and overpowered that weapon is?

joecheeze said:
just making a point. TWI tries to implement SOME realistic data and statistics in their games.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, yes. I'm sure the M14 fires a linear infinite speed bullet with no recoil or accuracy deterrence. Yes, hitscan weaponry in video games accurately portrays reality.
 
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#59
You guys are missing a huge factor: The average sharpshooter, good or not, turns into a drooling moron when he gets the M-14...

And claims of "I can headshot EVERYTHING!!!!11!!" tend to not be backed up nearly as much as people insist. The M-14 is a good weapon. The Crossbow is a good weapon. They're just different choices, giving sharpshooters different roles.

IMO, though, the Crossbow is better for giving OTHER classes the ability to 1-shot Scrakes...
 
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#60
Comparing the crossbow recoil to the m14's isn't supremely useful. The crossbow drops it's sights and reloads after each shot and you can bring them up again during the reload anyhow for target acquisition. And saying the m14 has no recoil at all, well that isn't true. It's recoil is higher than the 9mm's by more than twice, nearly the recoil of the handcannon.

Complaining about a level 6 perk performing in one fashion or another on hard mode isn't useful either. That's roughly that same as complaining the earlier quests of some rpg game are too easy at maximum level. The balancing needs to be done on the suicidal end, because maximum level is where all of TWI's KF players will eventually end up, and they will end up playing suicidal.

Are sharpshooters unstoppable on hard? Sure, but hard is a lot more forgiving when on suicidal non-medics can be one shot by FPs, making the choice to go crossbow or m14 a lot starker. I don't see m14's unless the group has some other perk for dealing with fleshpounds, or I'm looking at a relatively inexperienced player who doesn't understand the risk it carries in front of multiple FPs.

I hear lot of "crossbow is overpowered" and a good chunk of the time I hear them add the caveat, saying crossbow is balanced with low ammo. I tend to agree. You still need you team for taking out the numerous other zeds. The m14 let's sharpshooters take on the commando style role more easily than the low ammo crossbow would and you'll probably see a lot of the "zomg look how many kills I got" crowd playing that way, and you'll also see m14's on teams with no commando or firebugs. It certainly has it's place, but on suicidal it's not godmode for big game.

I'm sure all of us can describe the ideal situation for killing big zeds, but the reality is as difficulty goes up, the frequency we can create those circumstances goes down.
 
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