Feel like its too easy? Add more then, don't nerf

[brick_top1982]

I'm very happy with the addition of the new weapons, Husk, Perk extension and the new maps.

The one thing that makes me very happy is fixed hit boxes. Which brings me to my next question, would the game have been just as easy if the hit boxes were as they are now before the addition of the new weapons? My answer is yes. Scrakes and Fleshpounds would fall just as easy without the addition of the new weapons, and perk extensions. (Keep the no insta decap with any weapon though I like that more

I see too many people say that the this weapon is too powerful, this weapon is too cheap (M14, Crossbow, AA12 etc.) I say don't nerf the weapons. Add more Zeds or a harder difficulty than suicidal. I know that once a weapon gets nerfed, there are is going to be tons of complaints: "WTF!!?? my favorite perk/weapon is useless now" Example: R.I.P. Zerker and Chainsaw.

I want more frightening Zeds who maybe don't have a weak head, so it won't be felled so easily by anyone who has a crossbow. (So the Zerker can have his special place back on the field)

A Zed who has the same knock back ability as Patriarch.

Or maybe even the Patriarch can clone himself and have others of him run around that can be killed somewhat easily, deal slightly less damage, but you won't win until you kill the right real one.

Or maybe extend the Zed numbers in each wave: Solo Hard/long you start off with dealing with 26, and then grows each wave. Have it start at 36 then grow from there.

Or on long games have Scrakes spawn on wave 4, and then Scrakes and Fleshpounds spawn at wave 5 instead of 7. The reason I say this is because usually by wave 5 or 6, you have enough cash to buy the big guns, thus able to dispatch of any major threat by then.

Or add more characteristics to the current zeds, make them faster, maybe have the Fleshpounds and Scrakes always at a semi rage state. Walks faster, always swinging arms/chainsaw at you so its not too easy to pop em in the head, then have them super rage when they take enough damage or haven't reached their intended target.

Axe wielding Zeds, hammer wielding zeds, a zed who is specializes in ripping down welded doors, (maybe each hit takes off 15 percent of the weld)

Please don't nerf. TWI gave us new toys to shoot with, so I say give us more stuff to shoot at.

 

[[UIT] Akame]

Adding more content and nerfing go hand in hand. You don't only nerf or only add new content.

Adding content
--------------------
-makes things obsolete (and wastes work)
-takes more work to balance
-slippery slope (add harder difficulty, add better weapons, repeat)

Nerfing
---------------------
-less work
-fans generally dislike
-new content needed to keep game fresh

By using both you can minimize issues with both and create a more precise balancing procedure.

So nerf now that new content has been added. I don't want "I'm not joking that this is really suicidal - v2".

 

[nath2009uk]

They should add one more zed or just change the behavour.
Most of them just walk towards you , trying nothing, just walking, and walking, and walking, and walking, until they can hit you.
It would be nice for the Stalker (She speaks english, so I'm assuming she is pretty intelligent) to go around objects and flank you a little, or have them pop up in different places like crawlers, so they aren't so weak.

 

[Kogitsune]

or have them pop up in different places like crawlers, so they aren't so weak.

This actually is the mapper's fault. Take Biotics or Office as an example - virtually anywhere a crawler can spawn, so can a stalker, such as the in the ventilation or on those grating things, and on the rooftop for Office.

Then, Manor has the same thing going on where the boathouse and second floor of the manor also get stalker spawns mixed with crawlers ( not sure about second floor and crawlers ).

I'd like to see Stalkers make less noise on higher difficulties to make them more effective. If I don't have LOS on them, I end detecting them from their talking.

 

[9_6]

It's called 'balancing'.

 

[Nenjin]

But...if people accept this 'balancing' you speak of...what will they have to get all angsty about?!

 

[9_6]

Nothing at all if all perks would be equally powerful.
Are they equally powerful now?

 

[[UIT] Akame]

It's called 'balancing'.

Balancing is nerfing the player (relatively) when the player is overpowering. But I guess that's not really the same thing.

But, seriously, "easy" as a difficulty was a joke when the game came out and people didn't know the tricks they do now. Playing normal now feels like that all over again.
Suicidal is still difficult but not for the reasons it should be. I would be happy if different difficulties had other discerning features other than more damage, more health, more specs, less money. The game forces the player to streamline their play style and become more efficient but because of spec speed and damage you really can't let a single one hit you. With the introduction of the new super weapons it is becoming dangerously close to I kill everything in one hit and everything kills me in one hit gameplay.

 

[9_6]

Suicidal is still difficult but not for the reasons it should be. I would be happy if different difficulties had other discerning features other than more damage, more health, more specs, less money.

Limiting the traders inventory to 3 random tier 1, 2 tier 2 and 1 tier 3 weapon each wave for example?

 

[Nanostrike]

pop up in different places like crawlers, so they aren't so weak.

Waterworks is bad about this, actually, and I hate it. All the semi-hidden "Crawler/Stalker vents" are usually fine but for some reason on this map, they're big enough that Scrakes and FPs drop down them, right on top of you...

It feels less "Challenging" than it does outright cheap...

 

[Sammers]

On the note of Zed ideas:
Mutant dog Zed with a poisoning attack that lowers a player's health non-stop until they heal themselves.

Failing that, a Zed that can lower a player's speed for a short time. That would be one for the Medic to look out for, since they usually rely on their high speed to avoid large confrontations.

On a side note, one of the loading screen tips tells you to listen out for Stalkers' distinctive sounds so I doubt they'll lower it by much if they do.

 

[[UIT] Akame]

Limiting the traders inventory to 3 random tier 1, 2 tier 2 and 1 tier 3 weapon each wave for example?

Well you don't want it to be arbitrary either. Increasing AI would not go amiss but would require a lot of coding.

 

[9_6]

Well you don't want it to be arbitrary either.

Why not?
Because then you'd not have optimal equipment?
Maybe that's the point.

 

[Nenjin]

With the introduction of the new super weapons it is becoming dangerously close to I kill everything in one hit and everything kills me in one hit gameplay.

Isn't that pretty much what every hardcore mode is like in FPS? On hit, one kill?

I'd be interested to hear what discerning features you'd give higher difficulties. You say you don't want more health because it's not interesting...at the same time you say you don't want 1 shot 1 kill. So which would it be?

Also, I don't like features being split across difficulties. L4D started doing this with versus/co-op and I hated it. I dislike having two versions that are ostensibly identical...but have different rules in play. Scaling is one thing...but brand new enemy types, environmental effects, or bizarre rules (like a melee stamina bar for suicidal only, which is akin to what Valve did with melee in L4D versus) fractures the player base. And that's something TWI has said time and again they don't want to invite.

 

[9_6]

Scaling is one thing...but brand new enemy types, environmental effects, or bizarre rules (like a melee stamina bar for suicidal only, which is akin to what Valve did with melee in L4D versus) fractures the player base.

Then again not just bumping up some variables makes things more interesting.
Like it used to be in shooters back in the day when you select 'hard mode', enemies that didn't shoot before now shoot at you apart from just having more health and to play the full game, you need to play at least in 'normal mode' (although that's arguably a bit lame).

 

[[UIT] Akame]

-removed-

 

[[UIT] Akame]

Some ideas I came up with

-giving all specs hard head (decaps only with less than 10% health)
reason: FPs and bloats are much more dangerous, any most other specs are more difficult to deal with

-increase AI (flanking/dodging); the worst as far as time to implement
reason: all specs are harder to deal with

-spawn tougher enemies earlier and more frequently (in addition to scaled numbers also scaled percentages)
reason: make game tougher without blanket strengthening enemies

 

[Nenjin]

-spawn tougher enemies earlier and more frequently (in addition to scaled numbers also scaled percentages)

I think this is already in game to some degree. I know for a fact that, as the wave progresses, the delay between the first spawns activating gets shorter. By wave 8, you will have spawns directly next to you activating. It's why being in transit to the camp spot when the wave starts usually gets people killed--because they don't get that extra 10 seconds before things start spawning.

Plus, I think the spawn rate, while defined by the map, is adjusted by difficulty. The delay between a new 'group' spawning when the old one dies is shorter on harder difficulties, so you get a more constant stream of specimen. The groups are also larger.

The hard headed one has some merit though. The flanking one...that's a lot harder to code. It seems like since the patch though specimen do attempt to use multiple pathways more.

 

[nath2009uk]

Waterworks is bad about this, actually, and I hate it. All the semi-hidden "Crawler/Stalker vents" are usually fine but for some reason on this map, they're big enough that Scrakes and FPs drop down them, right on top of you...

It feels less "Challenging" than it does outright cheap...

Mappers fault because there is simply an option on the ZombieVolumes to disable and allow certain zeds spawning there.

I liek the idea of changing headshots, making them harder.
You can take down nearly everything in one or two shots with a 9mm, except the obvious Scrakes, Fleshpounds, husks.
Maybe a headshot chance system.
On beginner, your almost garunteed a headshot.
On suicidal, a headshot with a 9mm will be pretty hard unless you
1) Hit a very small spot
or
2) shoot em about 2 times
Just throwing some ideas out there.

 

[Evilsod]

I've seen Power Creep before in Guild Wars. What began as a balanced game slowly became ridiculously easy as skills were altered. By the 3rd Campaign Normal Mode was laughable and Hard Mode needed to be introduced. By the 4th Campaign (/expansion) Hard Mode had been made an absolute joke with the introduction of even more unbalanced PvE skills and Consumables, and there it remained. A broken game.

Moral of the story? More content does not balance things, if ****s them up even more.

New weapons? Bigger and stronger no doubt. New Specimens? Same again. The Husk filled a niche, a Ranger Specimen, offering a challenge in general and indirectly fixing alot of glitches/exploits. Higher level perks? Even more power creep? Between 5-6 should've been nothing but the new weapon, but a little penetration here, a little damage resistance there, eventually it gets out of hand. No, balance what you have properly first based on what you already had, adding more to it just makes it even worse.