Katana Nerf

[Jabau]

I've checked the forums, but couldn't find any threads speaking of the katana(granted I didn't go too far back). So seeing how there's a big update coming up I thought it's about time I made a complaint(or suggestion). If there has been a Katana nerf planned in the update then I'd like to know, but just incase, here is my complaint/suggestion.

Okay, now I know alot of people will probably start flaming me, but surely I can't be the only one that sees how overpowered this weapons normal swings are. First of all, I have no problem with the alt attack of the katana. It simply comes down to the power of the katanas normal attack, and the absolutely stupid(my opinion ofcourse) way it stuns scrakes. This basically just means that anybody(well, everybody - seeing how it has such a light weight and is basically the best secondary/third choice for most classes) can simply spam attack and take out anything infront of them. Now as it is, the katana has alot of things going for it: Attack Speed, Movement Speed, Range and Weight, without going into the immense power of each normal strike. A big, overpowering, aspect of the katana is the ability to stun scrakes with normal fire(the only other melee weapon I know of to do so is axe, which in my opinion is understandable), and factoring in the damage, and the speed at which it produces it just gives off such a lame feeling. Also, I've noticed that when beheading a fleshpound, the Katana-NormalAttack is far more effective at bringing down the fleshpound than the Chainsaw-AltFire(The decapitation, then finishing off the health). Seeing how all that can be done in, basically, a barrage of blind spamming, just seems completely wrong to me.

All in all I believe that the normal swings are extremely overpowered, especially when compared to the alt fire of the katana.

 

[Benjamin]

As far as I'm aware you can only use the Katana's primary fire to stun the Scrake if you are a Berserker, as with other perks you don't deal enough damage to cause the stun.

 

[omarfw]

As far as I'm aware you can only use the Katana's primary fire to stun the Scrake if you are a Berserker, as with other perks you don't deal enough damage to cause the stun.

nope. anybody can do it. i do it as a medic all the time.

 

[Cr@zY-$HeeP]

As far as I'm aware you can only use the Katana's primary fire to stun the Scrake if you are a Berserker, as with other perks you don't deal enough damage to cause the stun.

Interestingly enough, I've witnessed two separate instances of this "stun" effect, and now I have to admit that I'm quite lost... So can someone please confirm what I'm about to say:

As Berserker, if you attack a Scrake with the Katana, the Scrake completely stops in its tracks and does not attack. This is what I understand as the "stun" effect.

However, if you play as any other class and attack a Scrake with the Katana, the Scrake continues to advance, yet does not attack at all.

So basically, I'm wondering which one is classified as a "stun" effect, and which one was meant to be implemented? Or were both examples intended?

 

[skillshot]

Something most people do is aim at the body with katana, aim at the sweet spot above *his left shoulder and it will stun...attacks that hit his arms and mid section dont always stun, but a headshot will. (no matter what class or level)

 

[gusone]

I'd prefer a total Berzerker nerf and totally remove them from the game. I'd settle for a white listed mutator.

 

[Jabau]

I'd prefer a total Berzerker nerf and totally remove them from the game. I'd settle for a white listed mutator.

Well, I don't believe that there is any reason what-so-ever to remove the berserker. There is nothing overpowering about them(with the exception of the katana - hence the thread), they can be a vital part of a team, and, they actually take a bit of skill to use(not to mention they're fun). Removing them from the game would upset alot of people and cause alot of problems, so I don't see it even being contemplated.

However, if you play as any other class and attack a Scrake with the Katana, the Scrake continues to advance, yet does not attack at all.

So basically, I'm wondering which one is classified as a "stun" effect, and which one was meant to be implemented? Or were both examples intended?

What you've seen there, I believe, is where damage factors in to the stunning effect. I'm not sure about this, but I think damage plays a role in the stunning process(don't think it's actually how long the stun lasts, although it might be, but I think it has something to do with the potential), so therefor as a berserker you're producing more damage and can actually keep them still, where as on any other class, the stun isn't as potent and so they're not completely incapacitated. This can also be seen in the differen't difficulties, where I'm pretty sure as a lower level berserker, I couldn't stun scrakes on 'Normal' or 'Hard' with a weapon such as the machete or knife. Once my berserker was Lv5 however, I think the damage became enough for this to happen.

Once again I'm not sure, I haven't tested it or anything so I'm probably wrong, these are just my logical thoughts based on what I've noticed while playing.

 

[Krotz]

I'd prefer a total Berzerker nerf and totally remove them from the game.

Agreed.

 

[Oldih]

Well, I don't believe that there is any reason what-so-ever to remove the berserker.

I have a sixth sense that Gusone is referring to hilarious side-effect of friendly fire and your average berserker. It's never their fault even if the zerker ignored all FF warnings on the server name, server messages and even when the guy slashed some teammates randomly and was warned after that

 

[Benjamin]

nope. anybody can do it. i do it as a medic all the time.

Actually, you're right - but only if you hit the head. In this case I say it should be nerfed so these medics that run around as ninja wannabes can't do so anymore.

 

[Jabau]

Agreed.

Well, we're getting a bit off topic, but would you care to explain your reasons for agreeing to that seemingly biased-against-berserkers post?

Getting back on topic, the simple facts are that the katana has made every other melee weapon obsolete. It has more damage output than the chainsaw(direct output and DPS), it allows much greater movement speed(as much as knife) taking away any need to switch weapons, it weighs next to nothing, which thus allows the berserker to use it with any other weapon(except LAW) and any other class to use it along with their own weapons, and it has so much attack speed that you can hit and kill anything, and multiple things, before they can get off an attack. All these things piled together in my mind = an overpowered weapon. Recently I saw a berserker with a katana also interupt the Fleshpound's raged attack numerous times(allowing him to never get hit) while he was running backwards, after decapitation, all done while blindly spamming normal swings on suicidal. Also, with the katana, it is now so easy to kill the patriarch on any difficulty that it has just become rediculous.

 

[Swoftu]

you guys are just jealous you can't be as cool as the Broserker

 

[Crusad3rMKII]

In my honest opinion I find weird that you have to use more finesse with the raw Machete (or Fireaxe) rather than with the exotic Katana. That's because insane damage and attack speed make almost every kind of timing or aim to the head obsolete.

 

[[UIT] Akame]

you guys are just jealous you can't be as cool as the Broserker

This man speaks the truth.

As Jabau and multiple others have mentioned, the combination of the elements that make up the Katana (damage, speed, weight, cost) create a weapon that fits many role with almost no opportunity cost (using it does not mean not using something else). A minor decrease in DPS and increase in weight past 4, likely 6 (so you can't carry it with crossbow, flamethrower, both shotty and hunting shotty) would seem to put the katana into a more balanced position.

 

[Man And A Half]

Beserker was just fine before they added the Katana, which nobody asked for and the game didn't need.

IT'S THE SWORD OF WEEABOO FIGHTAN MAGICKS
POWER OF A CHAINSAW
SPEED OF A KNIFE
ONE HIT FROM THIS AND IT'S ALL. OVER.

People call Pyros in TF2 a "W + LMB" class, well, they are nothing compared to a berserker with a katana. Leave the class as is, remove the katana.

 

[Oldih]

Leave the class as is, remove the katana.

Or just double the price.

 

[DarkFenix]

Tbh a small katana nerf is needed. Perhaps remove the stun from primary fire completely and make the stun effect on the secondary beserker specific. That keeps the katana's powerful role, while toning down its ridiculousness. A price increase of perhaps 50-100% could balance it too.

Removing the katana is totally uncalled for, it's a fun weapon, and it alone doesn't win suicidal for you, ie. it isn't game-breakingly overpowered.

 

[Jabau]

I'm not sure I agree about raising the weight. That would balance things out, but then the katana loses everything that makes it a katana. This weapon is supposed to be light-weight, it's supposed to allow agility(movement speed + attack speed), but I don't believe it's supposed to be more powerful than a chainsaw and able to stun to the extent that it can. As it is, the katana is basically a master of all trades, when what they should be doing is focusing on it's weight. I like the fact that it allows you to use it as a secondary for melee, while giving you the ability to to wield a good ranged weapon too. There should be nothing wrong with a berserker if he wishes to use a crossbow, while still being capable at melee through the use of a katana, but alas, there is something wrong. I still think the best way to deal with this is to nerf the damage and do something about the stunning.

Also, I don't believe that increasing its price would do very much at all.

 

[[UIT] Akame]

Money only makes a huge difference in suicidal and a weapon that takes no ammo is wonderful in that regard. Price is rarely a factor unless you die a lot or early in the game. At a current weight of 3 it weighs the same as a machete and 2 units less than an axe, but weight isn't really realistic since crossbow, flamethrower, and chainsaw weight the same.

[...] then the katana loses everything that makes it a katana. This weapon is supposed to be light-weight, it's supposed to allow agility(movement speed + attack speed) [...] There should be nothing wrong with a berserker if he wishes to use a crossbow, while still being capable at melee through the use of a katana [...]

A weight of 5 would still make it light and have attack speed.
The issue isn't a berserker using crossbow, but SS, firebug, commando, medic, support all using katanas. Removing the stun would fix this to some extent, but the stun is hardwired into the scrake (although I'm all for removing the stun entirely).

 

[Nanostrike]

Well, I don't believe that there is any reason what-so-ever to remove the berserker. There is nothing overpowering about them(with the exception of the katana - hence the thread), they can be a vital part of a team, and, they actually take a bit of skill to use(not to mention they're fun). Removing them from the game would upset alot of people and cause alot of problems, so I don't see it even being contemplated.

Failure at reading Gusone's semi-sarcasm detected! Ol' Gus is referring more to the fact that on friendly-fire-enabled servers like his, Berserkers tend to run into peoples lines of fire and get shot in the back...or run into peoples lines of fire and block shots. Or run off on their own and die. Either way, they tend to hurt the team. A lot. Almost as much as Friendly Fire Firebugs...



Back on topic, it needs a price increase. If you do anything along the lines of nerfing, it quickly becomes useless. But it REALLY needs to be a Berserker-centered item. As in, the only ones who can afford it are ACTUAL Berserkers, because it'd be insanely expensive without a ~40%-60% (Depends on level) discount.

As it is, ANY class can buy one to stunlock Scrakes and generally own anything smaller than a Scrake. It takes up almost no space and most classes can scrape togther $1,000 to afford one easily. A $2,000 price tag would make it a bit more tactful. Berserkers would still be able to afford one (ANd heck, if it's a good team, buy one for teammates!) but other classes wouldn't be able to buy one after Wave 3 and kill everything in sight.

Also, as a professional Scrake Hunter, I can dish out the info on the stunning:


-KATANA, PART I: With ANY class, the Katana's Primary Pttack will cause the Scrake to Flinch if it hits his head. You can attack again before the flinching animation ends, thus 'Locking' the Scrake in the flinching animation until he dies. Unfortunately, the SECOND you let up on this, he's gonna charge and maul you

-A Berserker with the Machete will do enough damage to flinch-lock like this as well with the Primary Fire. Other classes won't. Also, primary fire hits with the Fire Axe cause stun, but unless you're a Zerker, the axe attacks slow enough that the stun will wear off between swings and can get you hit!

-KATANA, PART II: Also with ANY class, the Katana's Secondary Attack, if it hits the head, will legitimately STUN a Scrake. By stun, I don't mean flinch. I mean he'll stand there cluelessly for ~8 seconds. Which is a LONG time in a fast-paced game like KF! During that time, as long as no one tosses a grenade or something that literally knocks him out of the animation, you can STILL damage him and he won't unstun.

-Anyone using a Fire Axe can do enough damage to do this stun as well, by scoring a headshot with the Fire Axe's Alt-Fire. Berserkers can do this with the Machete Alt-Fire as well if they're high enough level.