Fire Axe has become lackluster

[Skunkee]

With the advent of the Katana, the Fire Axe is now basically not worth using in mid+ waves (beyond wave 3). The only thing it beats the katana in (albeit slightly) seems to be range. There was some discussion about the weapon in my Berserker strategy guide thread, so I figured I'd bring that discussion where it belongs.

In the mod days (at least in 2.0+), the Fire axe was the best weapon and held a special place for a handful of players. Clans like the AxeMen [AM] used to only use the axe.

So, with that out of the way...lets talk ideas to make the Fire Axe have a niche again. Whether it be through a cost increase + damage increase, or perhaps giving it a special effect (such as X% chance to sever a limb upon hitting), throw around your ideas on what should be done to the Fire Axe.

One idea that's been suggested:

I was thinking of a way to make the axe better, make it cause bleeding damage. An axe can cause some really gaping, ugly wounds that bleed a lot, though I think I was actually inspired by the characters occasionally saying "Stitch this!" when they take out the fire axe. So while it still wouldn't do as much damage as the katana and still be slower, it would gain some use. For example, you could hit a gorefast and miss the decap, but he would bleed to death after a couple moments. Obviously the katana would still be better as it would just outright kill them, but then, it's supposed to be better, at least this would offer a slightly different way of playing. Give another meaning to hit and run xP

 

[Vaevictus_Asmadi]

I really like the bleeding suggestion.

I have to wonder though if all these melee threads can be boiled down to the fact that the Katana is just too damn good.

Every single melee weapon is lackluster compared to the Katana. You just can't compared to the crazy damage, fast attack speed, and low weight of that razor blade from hell.

 

[Skunkee]

I'd like to disagree with you there. The katana is good, but it's not a replacement for the chainsaw. It's more of a mobility based sidegrade. A chainsaw will allow you to carve through an entire horde of specimens and trigger ZED time like nobodies business. The katana will allow you to peel that same group like an onion if you have the space to move around.

The main issue is that there's such a jump in power from the machete, to the axe, to the katana, to the chainsaw. The machete is barely an upgrade to the combat knife and isn't worth the 3 blocks. The Fire axe is an upgrade from the knife, but there's no real need to waste the money on it when you can just buy the katana a round later (if your zerker is at least rank 3). I also like the bleeding idea, but I don't think it would make the fire axe a "hmmm maybe I should get that instead" choice from the katana.

 

[SiLkY WilKY]

Had a really strange idea just before class, I dont think this is the upgrade were looking for but its a start and would be a nice side-idea.

Allow the Axe to take down barricades. This might give the axe a few memorable moments. For instance, being chased down the hallway by a horde you run into a welded door, it would take far too much time to take out your welder and unweld, then switch back to the axe, open the door, and run. Instead, the axe would destroy the door and the beserker would sustain his momentum. Plus it would just look cool.

 

[Nazarov]

Very good idea. People might actually want to get Axe if there is an idiot in the server that wields doors to trap you in. I'd get it definitely.

 

[Double_Deagle]

Hey cool, you posted my idea.

So what if you combined the two ideas? Make the axe cause bleeding damage, and be able to break down doors? Then it would at least be useful, though even with that the katana would still be better than it at straight killing.

And btw, the machete, I just had an idea. What if they made it not meant for berserker? I mean, every other weapon completely outshines it, but what if they lowered the weight to just 1kg? Then it really would be a cheap upgrade to the knife for other classes. Even for a nonberserker it can kill a clot in a single headshot, so it would be good if you're running away and get grabbed, and with the insanely low weight and price it really wouldn't be a strain on any class to grab one.

 

[chaudown38]

Nice idea about the fire axe breaking down doors. Reminds me of that scene in The Shining actually. Just hope you don't have a bunch of griefers in your servers buying fire axes to demolish all your welded doors for the heck of it.

One idea I have for buffing the fire axe is to maybe give it a multi-target effect so that when you swing it, you not only hit the target in front of you but also deal damage to any nearby mobs in your field of view. The slow, heavy swings of the fire axe sort of make me feel like I should be able to chop through several clots at a time.

Maybe the effect could also be exclusive to the Berserker perk, or the perk could just increase the range of the multi-target effect or the damage dealt to the secondary targets.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

Maybe it should have knockback on it? You know, something different from all the other melee weapons because we're really running out of different variations on the power vs speed spectrum with 5 different melee weapons now... We need a new mechanic.

And does the ax actually outrange the katana? When I tested it out using primary fire, the katana seemed to outrange the ax by about an inch.

 

[Ihmhi]

Not a single one of the melee weapons that I've seen allow multiple hits (i.e. one swing hits multiple Zeds).

Why not just have the axe swing side-to-side in a wide arc, and it can hit multiple targets at once? It deals less damage, but if you were surrounded by Clots and Gorefasts you could hit many of them at once.

 

[Moosecat]

Katana Primary fire dps > Chainsaw primary fire dps.

 

[Double_Deagle]

Not a single one of the melee weapons that I've seen allow multiple hits (i.e. one swing hits multiple Zeds).

Why not just have the axe swing side-to-side in a wide arc, and it can hit multiple targets at once? It deals less damage, but if you were surrounded by Clots and Gorefasts you could hit many of them at once.

I changed my mind, I like this idea the best, by far.

If it was like that, it might actually be better than the katana at taking out large condensed groups of trash mobs, but it would be worse at taking out the big enemies. Likewise it would be balanced by the higher weight and lower cost, I actually think that one change would be enough to make it a worthwhile enough weapon to actually use occasionally, without encroaching on the katana and the chainsaw's territory.

And does the ax actually outrange the katana? When I tested it out using primary fire, the katana seemed to outrange the ax by about an inch.

He's referring to the axe's secondary swing, which has surprisingly good range.

 

[Kabelis]

Agreed.

I think every weapon should be unique and have its uses.
Machete/Axe/Katana are basically a same weapon with increasing cost and effectiveness so the way it works is that you simply sell them later and buy the upgraded version.

For example no one is going to buy Rifle if he has the money for anything else.

More weapons isn't the most important thing, all of them should have their own specific use

 

[Wolfdust]

I really like the bleeding suggestion.

I have to wonder though if all these melee threads can be boiled down to the fact that the Katana is just too damn good.

Every single melee weapon is lackluster compared to the Katana. You just can't compared to the crazy damage, fast attack speed, and low weight of that razor blade from hell.

The Chainsaw equals the Katana. They're kinda like two sides of the same coin in fact. The 'Tana is the offensive weapon, the 'Saw is the defensive one. A zerker with the katana and hack some mofos up. A zerker with the saw can hunker down in a doorway and stop everything dead.

Not a single one of the melee weapons that I've seen allow multiple hits (i.e. one swing hits multiple Zeds).

Why not just have the axe swing side-to-side in a wide arc, and it can hit multiple targets at once? It deals less damage, but if you were surrounded by Clots and Gorefasts you could hit many of them at once.

This!

An small AoE swing would rule.

 

[Old Man {OMG}]

I really like the bleeding suggestion.

I have to wonder though if all these melee threads can be boiled down to the fact that the Katana is just too damn good.

Every single melee weapon is lackluster compared to the Katana. You just can't compared to the crazy damage, fast attack speed, and low weight of that razor blade from hell.

i'd like it if it cost 1200 pounds or 1400 pounds, then it would be fair.

 

[Nanostrike]

i'd like it if it cost 1200 pounds or 1400 pounds, then it would be fair.

The big thing is that it's far too powerful for the cost right now.

And despite all the suggestions, the Fire Axe would STILL to be slow to the point of uselessness compared to the Katana and the Machete will still be a joke weapon...

 

[Skunkee]

i'd like it if it cost 1200 pounds or 1400 pounds, then it would be fair.

Do you mean the Katana? Or do you mean the Fire Axe if it had the bleeding effects and the sweeping swings?

The big thing is that it's far too powerful for the cost right now.

And despite all the suggestions, the Fire Axe would STILL to be slow to the point of uselessness compared to the Katana and the Machete will still be a joke weapon...

Eh, I'm not so sure if it's too powerful for the cost. I think it's too powerful for the weight. I mean, 3 blocks isn't exactly a lot. This is what irks a lot of people, myself included. I mean, you can get a katana as almost any other perk with little to no downside.

Also bro, IDK about everyone else but for some reason I nerdrage a little bit whenever I see you capitalize random words in your sentences. I know you're trying to put emphasis on stuff, but use italices or bold to get a better effect. Nothing personal, it's just a quirk of mine.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

Eh, I'm not so sure if it's too powerful for the cost. I think it's too powerful for the weight. I mean, 3 blocks isn't exactly a lot. This is what irks a lot of people, myself included. I mean, you can get a katana as almost any other perk with little to no downside.

This. I can't think of a single good justification for why a sharpshooter can have the single best long range sniping weapon in the game concurrently with the second best melee weapon in the game (or for that matter why a berserker should get that combo either). Flamethrower + katana is another WTF-worthy combo (but not as balance-raping), and katana + ak/bullpup + double deagles starts to push the OP line.

I also like the AoE idea. Maybe combine with my idea and have AoE knockback? That would be awesome! Knockback would be mostly for non-berserkers or for big guys as if a berserker hits anything smaller than a scrake with the ax it should be dead already.

 

[Kabelis]

Like I said, Machete/Axe/Katana OR Chainsaw are all basically the same weapon, they just scale up in the cost and power..

There are no special properties in any of the weapons.


These ideas mentioned would be fun (Bleeding/Knockback/Power Swing etc.)

 

[Nanostrike]

Well, I just figured that it could keep the weight and increase the cost as a counterbalance. Afterall, miniaturization of things often increases efficency but is usually far from cheap. If you want what is basically a mini-chainsaw, you should have to pay more than you would for the big honking chainsaw...

If the weight is increased it instantly becomes useless in several builds, as well, and that could influence the overall balance of things.

 

[SiLkY WilKY]

A.o.e Swing and able to knock down barricades, WE have a winner!