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Best Assault Rifle

Haven't heard of the problems you described, but they might have existed, i don't know.

But to be honest, none of my buddies has ever mentioned that he wants a new or different rifle and I totally trust their judgement, because they are the pros and I am not ;)


I'd go with that.

I got the information from someone who was in the German Army, he had pics of him and others using the G3 while everyone else had the G36.

I am pretty sure the A2 fixed all the issues.
 
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I'd go with that.

I got the information from someone who was in the German Army, he had pics of him and others using the G3 while everyone else had the G36.

I am pretty sure the A2 fixed all the issues.

G36A2 still has durability problems, it still melts under sustained fire, it's still expensive as hell, the sights aren't user adjustable (meaning any lost zero from dropping it means it has to be sent to the armory), they fog up at the drop of a hat, and the stock is still as appropriate for melee combat as an inflatable toy hammer. And practically nothing on the rifle can be modified or replaced by the user (no rails, nothing at all modular, etc. etc.)

Let's not forget the ridiculous knobs on the side of the magazine that snag and take up space...
 
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G36A2 still has durability problems, it still melts under sustained fire, it's still expensive as hell, the sights aren't user adjustable (meaning any lost zero from dropping it means it has to be sent to the armory), they fog up at the drop of a hat, and the stock is still as appropriate for melee combat as an inflatable toy hammer. And practically nothing on the rifle can be modified or replaced by the user (no rails, nothing at all modular, etc. etc.)

Let's not forget the ridiculous knobs on the side of the magazine that snag and take up space...

They have rails.

2mma895.jpg


And again, you can easily replace the crappy optics with a plain rail/carry handle and put on an ACOG, EOtech or whatever you want.

That's probably because doing so would destroy their weapon.


Even with the M16 series, you're supposed to use the barrel. Don't want to damage the buffer tube on an M4.

Or at least that is what I've been told. I wouldn't know for sure.
 
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They have rails.

And again, you can easily replace the crappy optics with a plain rail/carry handle and put on an ACOG, EOtech or whatever you want.

So it does have rails, must be something new.

Even with the M16 series, you're supposed to use the barrel. Don't want to damage the buffer tube on an M4.

Or at least that is what I've been told. I wouldn't know for sure.

The buffer tube is metal and usually pretty tough, not to mention those collapsible stocks aren't slouches either.
 
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1) When dropped, the integrated carry handle sight loses zero easily. The sight was tiny anyways, and this can be fixed by replacing it and putting on a quality sight.

2) The stock is flimsy and breaks.

3) Even without the sight, dropping can sill cause accuracy problems.

4) Magazines were fragile and have shattered when dropped.
The stock isn't flimsy, but it is less solid then that of the G3 or M16 I give you that. But that is trade-off, not a "flaw". And considering how often the buttstock is actually used as last measure weapon, it was the right choice for a standard infantry rifle. Today though, a stock like that of the scar seems to be the best choice.

Other than that all of the problems you list are either rare (2, 4), have been fixed (1) or seem to be no problems at all because to all G36-users I know since 2002 they never happened (3). And the only thing that really changed over the years is the new secondary sight. Big deal. No gun is perfect because no machinery is ever perfect. I repeatedly said I consider the G36 a good gun but far from perfect. Today there are definetly better guns out there. But how does "oh the G36 isn't so hot either" help you with the M4 being an outdated and outclassed gun?

Forgot what they were called, but the German Army soldiers that fight a lot in the mountains kept the G3 because of the G36's tendency to break really easily. I think now after 10 or so years, they finally switched over with the G36A2.
Those would be called Gebirgsjaeger. And since I was one of them I can tell you, you are flatout wrong.
 
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G36A2 still has durability problems, it still melts under sustained fire,
Ever seen one melt? Thought so.

it's still expensive as hell, the sights aren't user adjustable (meaning any lost zero from dropping it means it has to be sent to the armory),
Wrong.
they fog up at the drop of a hat,
Every optic has a chance to fog up and the G36 sight is no worse or better than your average optic in that aspect. Not to even mention the G36 can come with a rail top if the user wants so.
and the stock is still as appropriate for melee combat as an inflatable toy hammer.
Because using the rifle as a club is so common these days.
And practically nothing on the rifle can be modified or replaced by the user (no rails, nothing at all modular, etc. etc.)
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Let's not forget the ridiculous knobs on the side of the magazine that snag and take up space...
... and allow you to plug magazines together without tape. The danger of snagging an AR15 fwd assist with clothes or other gear is far greater and it sticks out far more as well.
 
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Ever seen one melt? Thought so.

...

Oh for ****'s sake...

You apply this insanely illogical "argument" to just about anything. Hey, did you directly witness [event X]? I DIDN'T THINK SO. Clearly [event X] never occurred.


Oh, would you like to elaborate on that? Maybe point out where on the G36's scope there are adjustment knobs?

G36 optics are not user-adjustable. End of story.

Every optic has a chance to fog up and the G36 sight is no worse or better than your average optic in that aspect.

Well, no. To keep costs low, they really half-assed the 1.5x red dot (good RDSes cost almost half as much as the rifle itself), and the anti-fog coating kinda sucks.

Not to even mention the G36 can come with a rail top if the user wants so.

Yes, but it's not going to hold zero very well...

Because using the rifle as a club is so common these days.

The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders did a bayonet charge in Iraq, not to mention the inability to strike something is indicative of the general flimsiness of an almost-entirely plastic rifle.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

I was wrong about the rails, at least on the A2, but it sure as hell isn't as modular or modifiable as, say, and AR15, nor are there really any aftermarket parts for it.

.. and allow you to tie magazines together without tape.

Who uses tape? Mag clamps are cheap, light, and mean that your non-clamped magazines don't take up more pouch space than they need to with the snag-happy coupling nubs.

Hell, most people don't couple magazines anyway, at least people outside of subsarharan africa, where mag pouches are apparently in critical shortage. It adds weight, screws up balance, and the double-wide magazine is more clumsy and difficult to stow, all for a slight increase in reload time. Whoopty-do.

EDIT:

The danger of snagging an AR15 fwd assist with clothes or other gear is far greater and it sticks out far more as well.

How often do you have to pull your AR15 out of a magazine dump pouch?
 
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...

Oh for ****'s sake...

You apply this insanely illogical "argument" to just about anything. Hey, did you directly witness [event X]? I DIDN'T THINK SO. Clearly [event X] never occurred.
Because there are only a handful of accounts of this happening and even of those, most are anecdotical at best. But that's the way you draw your conclusions, i forgot. Make yourself an opinion about something and then search for evidence to support that. Awesome.



Oh, would you like to elaborate on that? Maybe point out where on the G36's scope there are adjustment knobs?

G36 optics are not user-adjustable. End of story.
Thanks for proving that you are trying to lecture people on a rifle you never touched and all your "knowledge" comes from what you read on the internet:
You simply adjust them with an ordinary hex key and the knobs are very visible, see for example here :http://www.rsov.com/images/product_images/aim_0149_3.jpg. I guess every German soldier spends a good half an hour shooting-in the rifle. Even you could have googled that up. And before you try to lecture me again, I know very well that this is an aftermarket thing, but it's the same on the G36.

"End of story". Go on and make a you-know-what out of yourself.



Well, no. To keep costs low, they really half-assed the 1.5x red dot (good RDSes cost almost half as much as the rifle itself), and the anti-fog coating kinda sucks.
It's 3 times magnification for most users and the sights never fogged up on me even though I used them in a wet, woodland environment. But sheesh what do I know right? It's just that I actually used the thing. "The anti fog coating kinda sucks", care to elaborate? Personal experience?



Yes, but it's not going to hold zero very well...
Bull****. It's pretty much rock solid.



The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders did a bayonet charge in Iraq, not to mention the inability to strike something is indicative of the general flimsiness of an almost-entirely plastic rifle.
Yawn, you can easily mount a bayonet on the rifle. With the LA85 or any bullpup you can't really "buttsmack" either that's why they use the barrel in case no bayonett is mounted. As mentioned it's not even like you wouldn't run into any danger of wrecking an AR15 doing that and from what I've seen of the SCAR's stock, I wouldn't do it either. And still they got accepted and are in selective service now.

You are blowing this out of proportion anyways. Before even talking about such very secondary qualities such as being able to club someone to death, foremost, a rifle should shoot. Reliably. The AR system is not the optimum when it comes to that.
I was wrong about the rails, at least on the A2, but it sure as hell isn't as modular or modifiable as, say, and AR15, nor are there really any aftermarket parts for it.
There is everything the military needs and that is what counts. In fact, show me something you can do with an AR15 that you can't do with a G36. I can't think of much. The whole modding thing is a way overrated anyways due to civilian shooters.



Who uses tape? Mag clamps are cheap, light, and mean that your non-clamped magazines don't take up more pouch space than they need to with the snag-happy coupling nubs.

Hell, most people don't couple magazines anyway, at least people outside of subsarharan africa, where mag pouches are apparently in critical shortage. It adds weight, screws up balance, and the double-wide magazine is more clumsy and difficult to stow, all for a slight increase in reload time. Whoopty-do.
There are better magazine designs than that of the G36, like for example the Steyr magazines. I don't even question that, but they are much better and more reliable than STANAGs. See I actually try to look at things from an objective point of view. Try that sometimes.



How often do you have to pull your AR15 out of a magazine dump pouch?
How often do you carry your rifle directly in front of you with much of the rest of your gear (mag pouches, slings etc.). Oh right: All of the time.
 
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I am pretty sure this rail would hold zero:

hk_g36k.jpg


The only thing that might not be so good is that it makes the space to pull the charging handle really tight. But it seems like people use it fine with the G36C.

But how does "oh the G36 isn't so hot either" help you with the M4 being an outdated and outclassed gun?


Shows you that the M4 isn't outclassed if the new weapons still have issues that are just as bad.

And if it is so out dated, then why does every new (or almost every) rifle use the AR-15's control layout? Such as the FN SCAR.

The only real disadvantage is the lack of a side folding or collapsible stock. This can be an issue for vehicle crew members, but it doesn't seem to be much of a problem for us. And you can issue shorter barrel ones if space is an issue.

I've talked to a lot of people who used the M4 and M16A4 in Iraq and Afghanistan, and none of them had ever had their weapon jam in combat. No failures, not even from the crappy STANGs. I think the Pmags would fix the majority of issues with the M4/16. They can even be used in the SCAR I believe. It is a win win to use them... more durable, lighter, and can be used in future replacement rifles.


As for being modular, this does help a lot. Makes training and logistics easier when your assault rifle/marksmen rifle have all interchangeable parts. It takes around 15 seconds to go from an M4 to an SPR marksmen rifle. This can help if the SPR's lower got damaged and you need to equip a marksmen in a squad with a longer range rifle while you wait for a lower replacement. Of course, you'll loose the trigger, but you can swap that out to.

But I also think the future of stocks will be like the SCAR and ACR.
 
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That's not the only rail upper for the G36, it's only the first that came out (and it is the worst for the reasons you mentioned).

As for why newer rifles copy the layout of the AR15. Well first of all the layout is good, although not as ambidextrous as others. And of course the thing with the SCAR and ACR is that they are primarily intended for the US to replace their M16s/M4s. So layout wise, it makes sense to keep as many things as sensible to make the transition as smooth as possible.

Ergonomics is only one aspect though and reliability is another and one that is harder to improve. And just because the G36 is not flawless, it doesn't make it "just as bad". It's advantages outweigh the disadvantages easily. But imo it's a 10+ year old design (made for a very different scenarion than we are facing today), so if I wanted to replace a rifle today, I would go for something newer like maybe the SCAR.

And most of the newer design are modular to a good extent, you can even switch the magazine on a G36 to accomodate to STANAG magazines for example. In the end I'm willing to bet the army will buy complete units anyways and not x lowers plus y uppers of that kind + z uppers of another kind. Though with the SCAR that would be possible.
 
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The money is going to be spent no matter what. New M4s and M16s have to be bought, so you might aswell spend that money on a new rifle (for which you already spend some R&D money). It's not like the switch would happen over night either. In the long run investing in a more durable platform is going to pay off big time. And the costs for the switch to a new standard issue rifle are miniscule when compared to other procurement programs many of which never pay off at all (e.g. RAH-66).

Debating this seems pretty meaningless anyways, because as it seems, the transition is already happening.
 
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How is the SCAR more durable? What proof do you have of this transition? All regular army units and the marines are still using the M16 or M4, only socom appears to be using the SCAR. I think it will take a long time before the M16 is going to replaced until they come up with something ALOT better not only marginally better like the SCAR.
 
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For the G36 rail/carrying handle, I think the height in between that of the C and that of the A2 would be the best.


I think we can assume that the US military will be going with the SCAR. Generally, when our SF get something, it will eventually find its way to normal soldiers. Not always the case (Stoner 63 ect.), but I think this will be the rifle.

As mentioned above, the M16/M4 will need to be replaced in 10 or so years anyways when all the current ones break down.

The only other alternative I can see now would be a gas piston upper from FN, Colt, and possibly HK. Even the ACR has an extremely small chance of being accepted. Bushmaster has only made rifles for foreign militaries (M4s for Georgia) and some police departments. I don't think they've ever made anything for the US government. Compared to FN, Colt and HK who have delivered a lot of high quality products to us in the past, I don't see it being accepted.

I may be wrong though.


As for the SCAR being more durable, I doubt it is true. Cleaner, and jamming a bit less? Yeah, but durability wise the M16 has served well.
 
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