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Level Design KF-Hotel

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FifthHorseman

FifthHorseman

Active member
Jul 15, 2009
29
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#1
Apparently no one really bothers to look at the beta section so I'm going to repost this here. This is not because I want people to notice my map, but because I am going to submit it for the competition and I need feedback. I put in a lot of time to make this, but some things I can't seem to fix. There are some spawns that do not work even though they appear to be set up correctly...if I could get an explanation as to why I would greatly appreciate it, as this issue has a major impact on gameplay. I believe this has a strong potential to be one of the best custom maps, but I need you guys to test it. I'm working on another map at the moment and would like to get this off my shoulders. Thank you all, and enjoy ;)

.:Fifth:.


Map name: KF-Hotel
Beta: 2
Playable: Yes
Description: Soon after "something went terribly wrong".... There has been an incident of mass homicide at a modern, victorian-themed hotel [undergoing some refurbishing and minor construction] downtown. Called to investigate, find the cause.
Testing: Find exploits...basically it.
Size: 2.75mb
Map Download: http://fifth.environmentality.net/Maps/KF-Hotel-beta2.zip

NOW HOSTING ON SERVER: 69.28.221.14:7707 (fast DL)

KF-Hotel_teaser.png


Please provide any criticism. This is my first map and I am very much aware of some potential faults and will address them after it has been played. Please enjoy :)

HINT: there's an easier way to get to the 2nd floor than using the stairs ;)
 
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#2
First off, love the level of detail you went to. I thought my map was huge...but this feels huge-er.

Secondly...the trader on the second floor was hard as hell to find. You made the stairwells to the second floor really inconspicuous and tucked wwaaaayyy in the back corners. Then you laid non-solid sheeting over dark areas right before the trader. We spent ~3 minutes running around looking for her.

I like some confusion and discovery in a map and that was really well done. But the pathway upstairs feels like it needs to be more conspicuous.

The trader downstairs...I liked the idea but having to crouch to get in, with all your teammates jamming up behind you, is kind of meh. I'd just enlarge that entrance and forget the forcing us to crouch.

We didn't get through too many waves before we died so I can't really comment on much else. The outside facade was cool as hell though and we were thoroughly lost as we ran through the interior the first time. I did notice that when we fought on the balcony of the second floor (inside), frames dropped noticeably. I've got a 4 year old processor but everything else is far beyond KF's specs, so you might need some optimizing.
 
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#5
Nenjin said:
Secondly...the trader on the second floor was hard as hell to find. You made the stairwells to the second floor really inconspicuous and tucked wwaaaayyy in the back corners. Then you laid non-solid sheeting over dark areas right before the trader. We spent ~3 minutes running around looking for her.
Click to expand...

Yes, this has been brought to my attention. The reason is because the spawn area of the specs actually extends through the middle to the other side. When I did this I did not have the pathing trail in mind. I know how to fix this and will do so in the next beta.

Nenjin said:
I like some confusion and discovery in a map and that was really well done. But the pathway upstairs feels like it needs to be more conspicuous.
Click to expand...

I'm really not too sure how I would do this. If you look at the map in the SDK, everything is tightly packed together. I figured most people would spend their time on the bottom level anyway since you can pretty much run in a large circle, so the only time you'd need to go upstairs is to get to the trader. If you hadn't found it either, the 1st elevator in the 2nd lobby works providing a shorter path to the second floor. I'm going to try to make it so it's recognized by the pathing, but at the moment it's not.

Nenjin said:
The trader downstairs...I liked the idea but having to crouch to get in, with all your teammates jamming up behind you, is kind of meh. I'd just enlarge that entrance and forget the forcing us to crouch.
Click to expand...

Will fix it.

Nenjin said:
I did notice that when we fought on the balcony of the second floor (inside), frames dropped noticeably. I've got a 4 year old processor but everything else is far beyond KF's specs, so you might need some optimizing.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I don't notice any changes here and everything is zoned off so I'm not sure what the reasons could be. Thanks you very much for your input though I appreciate it :D
 
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#7
Napalm said:
Also, was it me, or is the map very hard?
Click to expand...

I tried to design it to make camping very difficult, so you'd essentially have to run around to be safe. I think it works so an extent, but also I'm pretty sure several of the smaller rooms (which you'll find after playing it a few times) can be easily exploited. These include: the bathroom outside the ballroom (accessed by the hall underneath the balcony end), the boiler room downstairs (they don't come through the hole in the ceiling for some reason either), the boss's office on the left at the end of the first hall on the right, and the bedrooms upstairs. When you find them you'll see what I mean...I'm probably going to have to make these rooms join with others via large holes that look like the wall broke down.

Also, the easiest place to camp is outside next to the pool. This is possible because the 3 spawns in the woods don't feel like working for some reason. Once these are fixed though, the map should be as difficult as I initially intended.
 
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#8
Let me rephrase...I think having the stairwells to the second floor being all the way at the back of the first floor is pretty inconvenient for the players. It's not supposed to be too convenient but it could help the flow of movement if you added another stairwell(s) on the opposite end of the first floor.

I haven't opened up your map in UED but I can appreciate how you probably don't have much space to work with anymore. Still, something to think about. Detours are necessary to add some travel time, but the concept can be taken too far, if you force people to detour all the way to one end of the map to get upstairs. It also slows down specimen waves that spawn downstairs when they too have to go all the way to one end of the first floor to get upstairs.
 
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#9
Nenjin said:
I think having the stairwells to the second floor being all the way at the back of the first floor is pretty inconvenient for the players. It's not supposed to be too convenient but it could help the flow of movement if you added another stairwell(s) on the opposite end of the first floor.

...the concept can be taken too far, if you force people to detour all the way to one end of the map to get upstairs.
Click to expand...

There are two stairwells and one elevator. I'm really not sure how it's an inconvenience. It sounds like you didn't find one of them.
UE_Hotel_topview.png

I don't know if this helps, but going to the end of the map isn't necessary.
Need more testers for second opinions :/
 
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#11
Nenjin said:
Yeah, we didn't find the one closest to the entrance. We only gave the map one play and, to be brutally honest, the others wanted to move on.
Click to expand...

depends what kind of player you are. this map was essentially made for suicidal mode, for people who like the options that farm gives to make an escape, BUT confined. playing it on normal isnt really going to give you any reason to run and try to find a way out, but give it a shot on suicidal and your mind will be racing trying to find the best route to a makeshift safe spot.
 
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#13
We played it on hard.

and with good players
Click to expand...
Wtf? Why does everyone assume no one is "good enough" for their map? That's not exactly the way to take criticism. Everyone playing has been playing since release and leveled most of their perks to 5. Map designers can walk their own maps in the pitch black because they've spent 300 hours making it. A player's take on your design and how they react to it is going to be more legit than your own interpretation of how it plays. You are, after all, designing it for people other than yourself.

People were just frustrated, having spent so long looking for the way upstairs (there were four of us), spending another few minutes looking for the trader with one clot chasing us around, and then we got cornered and killed coming up from the downstairs trader next wave. I didn't mind it but the rest of the team was like "screw this, new map." Is that their skill or your design?

That's why I suggested making the stairwells somehow more conspicuous. Put another way....in a real hotel, would the stairwells be that hard to find? Or would they be some big central affair? Just some suggestions. I actually really enjoyed this map, it was open in a way that most of the official KF maps are not. Structurally I had some issues with it though.
 
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#14
~Beta 2~

Fixed:
- stairwells made larger
- added a hole in the wall to the bathroom and to the two bedrooms upstairs (to combine them)
- changed textures in the room with the fireplace and the kitchen
-fixed the pathing issue upstairs

Did not fix:
- basement trader entrance
- coronas
- outside spawns are still not working as intended (if anyone could take a look in the SDK and see why I'd appreciate it)

Screens:
Stairwell
Shot00046.jpg

Bathroom
Shot00047.jpg

Bedrooms
Shot00048.jpg

Fireplace
Shot00049.jpg


Now being hosted on server in original post. This will probably be the last beta...other suggestions/critiques made concerning beta 2 will be considered and corrected for the final. Thanks for playing and those who responded, esp. Nenjin ;)
 
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