Bullpup update

[Nenjin]

As was said, the Bullpup devours trash mobs. In one clip I've watched Lvl 5 players mow an entire pack of non FPs and Skrakes.

Yes, it's less effective against the three boss specimen....but that's why you get a second weapon.

People that say it doesn't do enough damage either a) don't know how to shoot it b) want it to rock the pants off a Patriarch or c) aren't level 5 yet.

As it is, when there are three players with Bullpups at level 4 and 5...you can pretty much take a nap til Wave 6 because they'll kill everything with little effort.

If the Bullpup got an additional damage boost...it would be the best weapon in game for general use, hands down. All the weapons have some kind of inherent penalty to balance out how awesome they are. The bullpup's is that it doesn't deal massive damage in short amount of time to hardened targets.

And that's why you buy a shotgun and/or HC as a secondary.

 

[Sammers]

I'd like to point out that I think all the "If I was 1 v 1 against a Fleshpound, I'd be screwed" arguments are a bit stupid. Why would you be taking on the hardest enemy in the game on your own in a co-op game mode? I suppose, if you're playing solo, but Firebug and Commando are more built for teamwork the way I see it. The only other reason I can think of is that your team have been killed off and you're the only one left, though it normally takes either a crapload of overlooked enemies or a fleshpound to lead to that situation. I think since the update, the Bullpup is far better and that it doesn't really need much, if any, tweaking when in the hands of a good player amongst a good team.

 

[Nanostrike]

I'd like to point out that I think all the "If I was 1 v 1 against a Fleshpound, I'd be screwed" arguments are a bit stupid. Why would you be taking on the hardest enemy in the game on your own in a co-op game mode? I suppose, if you're playing solo, but Firebug and Commando are more built for teamwork the way I see it. The only other reason I can think of is that your team have been killed off and you're the only one left, though it normally takes either a crapload of overlooked enemies or a fleshpound to lead to that situation. I think since the update, the Bullpup is far better and that it doesn't really need much, if any, tweaking when in the hands of a good player amongst a good team.

Actually, due to the "magical decap" thing on the Fleshpounds, as a Commando, I charge them if I get the chance and no one rages it. I can decap an unraged Fleshpound I get locked onto me EVERY SINGLE TIME with the Bullpup. Skrakes are the only thing I won't 1v1 as a Commando, seriously.

However, if I see my teammates shooting the Fleshpound like a bunch of morons, though, I usually back off and let them deal with the consequences of their stupid actions... After it finishes squishing their corpses, I'll decap it...

I still think Fleshpounds are an absolute joke with this decap nonsense left in, but as long as it's in, I'll master and abuse it...

 

[Soanos]

I still think Fleshpounds are an absolute joke with this decap nonsense left in, but as long as it's in, I'll master and abuse it...

I am having problems with it due to awful framerate as soon as ANYTHING gets close so I can never time it right. Hardware upgrade is out of question at the moment so... Do I really have to stop playing until TWI something about it? I don't seem to be able to get any of my friends interested anymore either. And they aren't that bad players... They never told me why, tho.

 

[shaqism]

With commando 5 the bullpup stands up to scrakes, but fps don't even waste time on them if its on hard / suicidal. It tears up anything thats a weaker zombie

 

[thrash242]

Alright, think about the name. Commando. It stands out from the rest of the other soldiers, because it is an ELITE soldier. When you see a commando wield a submachinegun, it looks WRONG. A commando is an elite troop, he shouldn't be using a pussy little submachinegun, he should be using a more elite weapon to match his name (which is like I said before, the assault rifle)

Movies aren't the best place to get ideas about guns, ok?

A commando would use whatever weapon was best suited to the situation. In close-quarters indoor situations where you want to avoid overpenetration (and thus accidentally killing civilians), SMGs work just fine. Navy SEALs use SMGs. SAS use SMGs. They're special forces, which is basically the same as a commando.

Besides, the Bullpup is an assault rifle/carbine. The real-world version shoots the exact same ammo as the M-16 and even uses the same magazines.

Only in movie/videogame-land do commandos wield weapons just because kids think they look cool. Assault rifles aren't "elite"--they're standard infantry weapons. In fact, there aren't really any "elite" weapons--there is, however, the weapon best suited to the situation, which is what commandos would be using, not some huge, overcompensating-for-something, gold-plated gun with flames painted on the side to make it "elite".

 

[Soanos]

A commando would use whatever weapon was best suited to the situation. In close-quarters indoor situations where you want to avoid overpenetration (and thus accidentally killing civilians), SMGs work just fine. Navy SEALs use SMGs. SAS use SMGs. They're special forces, which is basically the same as a commando.

Well... this is not a standard operation. You arrive into an area with no civilians alive and end up the middle of a horde of things that want to chew your face off. I certainly know I would like to bring something a bit more substantial for later waves. Preferrable a light machine gun, such as a FN Minimi variant (L108A1 or L110A1) the British Army uses.

Just making an observation here, but if the Bullpup is modeled after a L85A1 (which happens to be an assault rifle)? If so, why does it have the damage potential of a sub-machinegun? I think this is why everyone playing commando is complaining. It is an automatic rifle. It should either have some penetration or have decent stopping power.

In real life (IF this was realistic) the 5.56 NATO bullet tumbles and splits into shrapnel upon impact, causing massive internal damage to soft targets. Which it clearly doesn't, as things keep walking at us as if nothing happened.

Let's imagine they are AP bullets then. An AP bullet should penetrate softer targets with ease. Which currently does not happen either.

These facts things raise a question: Where is the penetration?
These facts raise another question: What are FP skulls made of to make AP rounds bounce off like airsoft pellets?
This raises a third question: What are the shotgun pellets made of as they seem to make insane damage and penetrate multiple targets?

Only in movie/videogame-land do commandos wield weapons just because kids think they look cool.

I have always viewed the weapons as tools to do the job. I would not like to send any troops out there underequipped.

But anyway, in a situation like Killing Floor, I am sure commandos would be glad to get their hands on a LMG or an assault rifle with more penetration or stopping power. Don't forget that the area is infested with ferocious specimens, and the team is just a group of survivors just trying to make it out alive. Traditional job descriptions do not exactly apply any more I don't think a commando would keep on insisting on using a low-damage peashooter after seeing some of the bigger specimens out there to be honest. He'd be begging for a "big f***ing gun". Especially when a mysterious woman shows up every now and then, selling weapons under the counter for anyone who asks. But only thing he would be proficient with that she sells is a standard issue automatic rifle, which is unreliable, poorly balanced, heavy and has to use underloaded cartridges to keep it from malfunctioning and has an awkward magazine reloading mechanism. Poor guy. He must feel awful when he sees the ample selection the other classes have.

Assault rifles aren't "elite"--they're standard infantry weapons. In fact, there aren't really any "elite" weapons--there is, however, the weapon best suited to the situation, which is what commandos would be using

Best suited to the situation? A light machine gun. I am glad we agree about this.

 

[Nenjin]

You forgot the most important question:

Why does someone's pet weapon NEED penetration. Seriously, 50 round clip, full auto, plus penetration? Why don't they just make it a minigun at that point.

Balance isn't just for awesome factor. It's there to give each weapon a role and a purpose for being in game.

 

[shaqism]

Just give commandos a saw and be done with it

 

[Soanos]

Why does someone's pet weapon NEED penetration.

Play a support specialist or a sharpshooter for a moment and you'll know why.

But hey, I am all for it if they just cut all bullet penetration in half. Or at least cut the damage down dramatically after it hits the first target.

 

[thrash242]

Well... this is not a standard operation. You arrive into an area with no civilians alive and end up the middle of a horde of things that want to chew your face off. I certainly know I would like to bring something a bit more substantial for later waves. Preferrable a light machine gun, such as a FN Minimi variant (L108A1 or L110A1) the British Army uses.

I wasn't saying that an SMG would be the ideal weapon in this situation--I was saying that the poster saying that commandos wouldn't use an SMG because they're sissy and not "elite" is being childish.

I would like to see a light machinegun that you can deploy via a bi-pod or something and a perk to go along with it. I don't see it really fitting the commando's role in KF as defined by Tripwire, honestly. Commandos are the "tactical" role. They can see cloaked enemies, they can see enemy health, and they have a fairly accurate weapon, albeit not the strongest in the game. They're good at supporting the high-damage roles by keeping them clear of weaker, yet annoying monsters like the clots, crawlers and stalkers.

I think a machinegun like this would balance out inside areas vs. outside areas, as most players never go inside except between waves to visit the trader, thus you rarely see action in the buildings in KF-Farm, or in the house in KF-Manor. I think that's a bad thing that large chunks of the map are basically unused. A machine gun that takes a little time to deploy into a position with a limited arc of fire would be excellent for covering a direction, while team mates cover the gunner's flanks and rear. It would fill a role that is kind of lacking--the low-mobility, but high-firepower role, and it could make the tactic of barricading doors and making a stand inside more viable, by allowing one person to fill a doorway or hall with a wall of lead.

 

[k_murdah]

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Things I point out are in bold.

As was said, the Bullpup devours trash mobs. In one clip I've watched Lvl 5 players mow an entire pack of non FPs and Skrakes.
Was doing that back before I had the ammo buff. I could do without it honestly, it helps but it's something I'd drop for a harder hitting gun.

Yes, it's less effective against the three boss specimen....but that's why you get a second weapon.
I've tried both shotgun and dual handcannon which kind of work but you need to remember that the only buff a Commando gets for any nonBP is faster reload. Think of playing a medic when talking about a secondary weapon's damage as a Commando. Kind of works, mostly doesn't.


People that say it doesn't do enough damage either a) don't know how to shoot it b) want it to rock the pants off a Patriarch or c) aren't level 5 yet.
A) Saying I know how to shoot it makes me look like a jerk so I will leave that unanswered. B) no, I just don't want my squad dying from the three 'boss' mobs because a full clip from the bp regardless if you are aiming for the head or not doesn't contribute a whole lot. Kinda wanna win here while playing Commando. C) From what I've been reading the people who are saying it does do enough damage aren't level 5.

As it is, when there are three players with Bullpups at level 4 and 5...you can pretty much take a nap til Wave 6 because they'll kill everything with little effort.
I can do the same thing with my SS or Support depending on the map, really. I think the main debate has been on stronger enemies, not the little ones. A high score is nice but doesn't necessarily win the map.


If the Bullpup got an additional damage boost...it would be the best weapon in game for general use, hands down. All the weapons have some kind of inherent penalty to balance out how awesome they are. The bullpup's is that it doesn't deal massive damage in short amount of time to hardened targets.
This I agree on, and I'd honestly be fine or even encourage with dumping the ammo boost for a second tier weapon. It's like buffing the **** out of a machete, lever action or shotgun each for their respective classes and being the only weapon meant as their primary. You can do it, but why?


And that's why you buy a shotgun and/or HC as a secondary.

Touched on this earlier. I've experimented on both hard and suicidal, it works a little better for burst than trying to spray a full clip of BP. I'm fine with that being the reason why the bullpup stays the way it is or even gets nerfed back to normal ammo cap but I would be really disappointed if that was the winning arguement for not giving Commandos a second tier weapon. Seriously think about the machete/lever action/shotgun statement long and hard.

 

[Janshi]

@Soanos:

The Bullpup is the L22, a carbine version of the L85A2 (the current assault rifle of the British army).

And I have no idea where you got your rather poor description of the L85. Yes, the L85A1 was notoriously poor for its functionability in the field, but the L85A2 is considered one of the best assault rifles currently in use. And the bullpup reloading design would probably be only cumbersome for someone not used to it. If you're in the army of any nation using a bullpup design (Australia, Israel, S. Korea, China, France, etc.) then you are probably not going to think it a problem at all.

I'm like a broken record at this point, but here goes...Tripwire, please give the Commando a strong assault rifle. Ignore the usual M16/M4/AK47 calls (though I have to admit to being apprehensive that there is an AK47 skin in there). Please use something that is rarely seen in games media - the L85A2, FN FAl, G3, ****, I'll even take the FAMAS (the new one please...it does happen to look rather snazzy).