'glanced' headshot?

[cavedog]

I saw several times that my crossbow bolt hits siren's head and blood splatters, but she is not killed.

Also I found even fleshpound must be killed by 2 ~ 3 crossbow headshots at hard difficulty, however, sometimes some headshots just do very little damage.

Is there a probability of headshot glancing? Or is headshot-box smaller than visual head?

 

[NeosWolvenkin]

I've had several times where I've shot something in the head and their arm flies off. Reminds me of the old James Bond games where you'd shoot someone in the head and they'd grab their foot and start jumping around. These events lead me to believe that the box for head shots is smaller then the actual heads, so aim for the forehead.

As for the headshots not killing them, every shot does a certain amount of damage and head shots count as critical damage, not instant death. If the damage doesn't total up to or more than the creatures health it won't die. Hence the reason it takes several headshots from the 9mm to take off a bloats head.

 

[thrash242]

Headshots don't necessarily equal instant death, but they will eventually bleed out.

 

[Blackwing Dragon]

I can confirm this. i headshot the patriarch and a fleshpound so far only to have it not blow to pieces or even get hurt. The rocket passes through, causing a little "flinch" animation and nothing else.
This happens with the crossbow too, and handgun on bloats atleast.
It's really sad, some headshots do shoulder damage...
This needs fixing , it involves the sharpshooter class..

 

[Nanostrike]

I can confirm this. i headshot the patriarch and a fleshpound so far only to have it not blow to pieces or even get hurt. The rocket passes through, causing a little "flinch" animation and nothing else.
This happens with the crossbow too, and handgun on bloats atleast.
It's really sad, some headshots do shoulder damage...
This needs fixing , it involves the sharpshooter class..

It was worse before the 2nd patch. Before that, you couldn't even GET headshots on Sirens, and it was really iffy to get 'em on Bloats, Gorefasts, and Stalkers.

After the patch, it seems to be mainly an issue with Gorefasts. Dead-on hits to the head just make them flinch. And these are dead-on CROSSBOW hits from a Level 4 Sharpshooter! It doesn't seem to do this with any other enemies, so I think this is a gorefast-centered issue.

Anyway, the LAW is a bad weapon that you shouldn't really be using much anyway...and if you do, aim for the body/ground for the splash damage, not the head! It's known to be glitchy, especially vs the Patriarch...

 

[Blackwing Dragon]

With a level 5 support using it, it's decent...which is sad, since LV 5 + specialty weapon = uber is how it should be.
Trust me, they might have sucked more before the patch, but I can honestly say that they still need some work.
All of this would be very, VERY easy if we just had an accurate crosshair.
Because, you know, maybe we are inches off and we don't know it, or the hitbox is picky, or if we aren't off then we could prove it with a screenshot \ video of a dead-on crosshair headshot doing little to no damage.

I now for a fact that implementing this would take all of five minutes, too...

 

[Nanostrike]

With a level 5 support using it, it's decent...which is sad, since LV 5 + specialty weapon = uber is how it should be.
Trust me, they might have sucked more before the patch, but I can honestly say that they still need some work.
All of this would be very, VERY easy if we just had an accurate crosshair.
Because, you know, maybe we are inches off and we don't know it, or the hitbox is picky, or if we aren't off then we could prove it with a screenshot \ video of a dead-on crosshair headshot doing little to no damage.

I now for a fact that implementing this would take all of five minutes, too...

Crosshairs are going to be a no-go. It ruins the immersion. The Tripwire guys have said this. Besides, aim through the scope/sights and you have better than a crosshair!

But yeah, it needs work, big-time. At level 2, I could kill a siren with a headshot, but it would just 'drop' (No head pop, thus no headshot!). I figured low perk level = low damage, and that leveling would fix it. I'm now at Level 4, almost 5, and it still happens with Sirens, Gorefasts, and Bloats!

If I had FRAPS, I'd record some of these dead-on hits and post 'em here for the devs to take a look at, because it's still a serious problem. And no guys, it's not lag, because it happens just as consistantly in solo play as it does online.

The Sharpshooter class needs work anyway. On higher difficulties, it simply can't get the 'fast takedown' that Supports/Berserkers can, even with Crossbow headshots and that is ridiculous. As a positive note, though...at Level 4, the Handcannon gets enough damage behind it that it can penetrate weaker enemies! I keep getting double and triple clot headshots! (Yet it still takes 3-4 shots to the head to kill one Gorefast! Ack!)

 

[Blackwing Dragon]

"immersion"?
They are horribly british in their speech, they use pounds - most people have no idea what this is - and you kill evil zombies that a madman

 

[Nanostrike]

"immersion"?
They are horribly british in their speech, they use pounds - most people have no idea what this is - and you kill evil zombies that a madman

 

[Blackwing Dragon]

I don't want mods or editing or taping over my monitor. Never have, never will.
But I want to know with certainty, if my damn shots will connect or not. I aim for the bloody head with what is currently a terrible iron sight for the handcannon, on a BLOAT. You know BIG HEAD bload..
And sometimes they don'T blow up into goopy goodness when I hit, they just stutter around because it was a SHOULDER SHOT..ON THE HEAD ;_;.

It's ridicilous..

 

[Nanostrike]

I don't want mods or editing or taping over my monitor. Never have, never will.
But I want to know with certainty, if my damn shots will connect or not. I aim for the bloody head with what is currently a terrible iron sight for the handcannon, on a BLOAT. You know BIG HEAD bload..
And sometimes they don'T blow up into goopy goodness when I hit, they just stutter around because it was a SHOULDER SHOT..ON THE HEAD ;_;.

It's ridicilous..

A crosshair doesn't mean "with certainty" that your shots will connect by any means. Most games have at least SOME bullet variance (AKA spread) with all weapons that can increase or decrease with movement and positioning (Crouching = more accurate, moving = less accurate). And on some games, like Counterstrike, the crosshair even widens/narrows to show it.

I expect that there's more than a little of the 'bullet variance' in play here as well, causing a lot of the "Aim at head, hit shoulder" nonsense. I'm not sure if it goes up when moving (It sure seems to!), but the weapon bob that doesn't seem to be turn-off-able makes ironsights iffy to use on the move, period...(Shooting while looking through a Crossbow Scope is near-impossible!)

So, besides the fact that they've already said that they aren't going to add crosshairs for various reasons, even if they did, I doubt it'd fix the headshotting problem. I have a feeling that it's a game-engine (Or game-mechanics at least!) issue. Tripwire guys, you have any input on this? Is there bullet trajectory variance in this game?

 

[Blackwing Dragon]

I know of the cone of fire, but when I want to headshot a bloat, the enemy with the biggest head in the game, and it staggers in SHOULDER damage, I repulse with disgust, myself.
I want crosshairs simply to prove that it is NOT our fault, that thre IS a bug.
I fail to see why they are so adamant \ lazy about a 5 minute coding process that would vastly enrich the game.
It's not even that not having one is difficult, it takes maybe ten whole minutes getting used to, so why bother? It's not challenging, or original, it's...annoying.
If need be I'll just make a crosshair, but DAMN...this is starting to get embarassing.

 

[Benjamin]

I personally feel that the lack of a crosshair enriches the game itself, but that's just my opinion.

 

[ItsJono]

The lack of a crosshair isn't anything to be complaining about.

 

[zYnthetic]

Stop moving. Use iron sights. Aim for head.
The hitboxes are a little different than typical arena fps in that they actually follow the head if it moves. Bloats' heads sway left and right when they walk. Gorefasts' tend to be cocked to the side until they sprint. Clots have a lot of play but their heads don't move around as quickly. Some of the tougher enemies are harder to tell because you don't get any feedback until you get a decap since they don't stagger.
Just aim for where the head actually is, not where competetive fps have trained you to aim.

 

[Blackwing Dragon]

Did, did, did, with a single handcannon, with the boosted damage of a level 3 sharpshooter. It did this on normal, so I went solo beginner to see if it did and yeah , even if I handcannon a bloat there, it will often just stagger around stupidly.
Obviously I aim where it is I'm a dedicated sniper that is also not afraid of going totally rambo on things..

 

[M3tabolic]

I personally have had no trouble headshotting bloats.

Although the Handcannon is not very effective against bloats (even with level 3 sharpshooter), so it usually takes a few hits to the head from the HC to get a bloat headshot.

 

[Benjamin]

I've just taken a look at the weapon class files, and the LAW does 650 dmg whereas the crossbow does 300 dmg. If you get a headshot with the crossbow, I believe it's 1800 dmg, according to the '6' multiplier, although I may be wrong. The hunting shotgun does 50 dmg per pellet, and there are 10 pellets per shot, making 500 dmg per shot, and I assume 1000 dmg in a double shot.

 

[Nanostrike]

I've just taken a look at the weapon class files, and the LAW does 650 dmg whereas the crossbow does 300 dmg. If you get a headshot with the crossbow, I believe it's 1800 dmg, according to the '6' multiplier, although I may be wrong. The hunting shotgun does 50 dmg per pellet, and there are 10 pellets per shot, making 500 dmg per shot, and I assume 1000 dmg in a double shot.

Something in that is very off. The Patriarch comes with about 2,000 HP in a 6-player game on Normal. So in theory, at 650 damage a LAW pop, 4 guys hitting him at the same time with the LAW would level him. Not the case AT ALL. In my experience, the LAW does closer to 200 damage, give or take, with a direct hit.

And with headshots, I'm not sure that it's a '6x' multiplier. I think it's closer to '3x or 4x'. Upgraded by Sharpshooter, of course... I totally buy the Hunting Shotgun doing that sick damage, though...I've seen 5 people on normal unload into the Patriarch at once with double-barrel blasts and he insta-gibbed!

I know of the cone of fire, but when I want to headshot a bloat, the enemy with the biggest head in the game, and it staggers in SHOULDER damage, I repulse with disgust, myself.
I want crosshairs simply to prove that it is NOT our fault, that thre IS a bug.
I fail to see why they are so adamant \ lazy about a 5 minute coding process that would vastly enrich the game.
It's not even that not having one is difficult, it takes maybe ten whole minutes getting used to, so why bother? It's not challenging, or original, it's...annoying.
If need be I'll just make a crosshair, but DAMN...this is starting to get embarassing.

Not trying to be offensive here, but I keep telling you: The developers have said NUMEROUS times that they won't include a crosshair. It's not that they CAN'T or that it'd even be hard to do (It's actually hard-coded into the Unreal Engine. They just have it forced to 'Off'!), but that they feel that not having Crosshairs is a feature of their game that enriches the experience. No amount of complaining or arguing is going to change their minds.

And for some reason, about 3/4 of the playerbase tends to not only agree, but rabidly agree. Some of the flak people will draw on here for even requesting crosshairs is ridiculous...

For what you're saying, the 'add crosshairs for headshot tesing purposes', though, I wish they would. I'd like to have the Crosshairs in a 'Debug Mode' type thing, actually. Where after you shoot, it tells you if it's a "Headshot" or not...THAT would be useful and would let us see just how messed up the bullet variance and/or hitboxes are...

 

[Benjamin]

The Patriarch comes with about 2,000 HP in a 6-player game on Normal.

Where did you get this information? When playing solo the patriarch has 4,000 HP on normal.