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High player servers and fairness

krid

Grizzled Veteran
May 20, 2009
80
1
I don't think it's right to disable perk progression on high player count servers while the various kf_level* maps are running rampant.
Yes, high player count servers made it easier to build up weapon damages for perks and make it more likely that each wave will be completed, but there are MUCH better solutions than simply cutting it off cold.

To that end, I offer a simple proposal:
Allow high player count servers to have perk progression, but have certain alterations in place to keep things fair.

First: The maximum active specimens should be floored to scale with the maximum player count.
A normal 6 person server can have 32 active specimens, which would be proportional to about 220 active specimens on a 40 person server. Servers that can't handle that much load would be forced to reduce the player counts, but that's an acceptable loss.
Further, have forced spawns past 6 players - in other words, while specimens will never spawn where a player can see on a 6-or-less server, as player counts go up that goes from being a hard rule to a preference.

Second: In order to prevent easy perk leveling have high player count servers account for HP scaling, such that (by way of example) removing 73% of a fleshpounder's HP with a shotgun always results in the player's shotgun damage counter increasing by 73% of the base hitpoints of a fleshpounder on that difficulty level.
For a 40 person server, that works out to the perk counters going up by only 3.3% of the damage a player does.

I believe that these two changes would be more than enough to offset the benefits that come from playing on a high-player server.

As far as commandos getting stalker kills goes, the increased difficulty in killing each stalker combined with the bloodlust of the other players makes it on-par with normal maps as far as perk-leveling goes.

For the various achievements associated with the long mode and suicidal difficulty I would like to note that these things do not need to be granted in these cases. While players DO actively complete perk objectives on high player count servers, they are NOT actively striving for the kind of accomplishment that comes from their achievements.

Does this seem like a fair and reasonable proposal?
 
I don't think it's right to disable perk progression on high player count servers while the various kf_level* maps are running rampant.
Yes, high player count servers made it easier to build up weapon damages for perks and make it more likely that each wave will be completed, but there are MUCH better solutions than simply cutting it off cold.

To that end, I offer a simple proposal:
Allow high player count servers to have perk progression, but have certain alterations in place to keep things fair.

First: The maximum active specimens should be floored to scale with the maximum player count.
A normal 6 person server can have 32 active specimens, which would be proportional to about 220 active specimens on a 40 person server. Servers that can't handle that much load would be forced to reduce the player counts, but that's an acceptable loss.
Further, have forced spawns past 6 players - in other words, while specimens will never spawn where a player can see on a 6-or-less server, as player counts go up that goes from being a hard rule to a preference.

Second: In order to prevent easy perk leveling have high player count servers account for HP scaling, such that (by way of example) removing 73% of a fleshpounder's HP with a shotgun always results in the player's shotgun damage counter increasing by 73% of the base hitpoints of a fleshpounder on that difficulty level.
For a 40 person server, that works out to the perk counters going up by only 3.3% of the damage a player does.

I believe that these two changes would be more than enough to offset the benefits that come from playing on a high-player server.

As far as commandos getting stalker kills goes, the increased difficulty in killing each stalker combined with the bloodlust of the other players makes it on-par with normal maps as far as perk-leveling goes.

For the various achievements associated with the long mode and suicidal difficulty I would like to note that these things do not need to be granted in these cases. While players DO actively complete perk objectives on high player count servers, they are NOT actively striving for the kind of accomplishment that comes from their achievements.

Does this seem like a fair and reasonable proposal?

It's fair and reasonable, but it requires a LOT of work, so the likelyhood of it being done is very, very slim at this time...
 
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KF is and always has been 6 player cooperative survival horror.

if you are playing with more than that, you kind of void your warranty.

I agree with preserving the vision and not sell out to the market.

I agree also to make room to play the game on a different market that initially intended.

I find it most fun when I'm playing with a large mix of player types in one map. The game really shines for me from it.
 
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I agree with you in some things.
KF is really much more fun with more than 6 players, with 6 it seems boring.
Also, many custom maps were designed for more than 6 players.

Regarding the max runtime zombies setting, We took care of it in our servers (Syrential #1 and #2) few days ago. We have a script that sets the Max Runtime Zombies setting every few seconds to the current amount of players connected (excluding spectators) multipiled by 4 (with a bottom limit of 24).
This, 10 Waves and the hard difficulty makes our servers not that easy for perk leveling.
Many other big servers such as RoxServers use the default setting of 32, which is way too low for 32 players.

I think one of the causes for disabling perk leveling on big servers is because there started to be too many, and some people even started selling such servers! (I won't mention who, but look in the forums, you'll see)

I hope TW will find a fair solution, perhaps better scaling (Like you suggested) or enable perk leveling for servers up to 24 players which is the perfect number IMO, many maps weren't designed for more and many maps weren't designed for less.

Last time our servers (Syrential #1 and #2) were full was yesterday's evening (europe time). Now i'm not sure if we will ever see them full again after updating.
 
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High player servers does not mean you get easy lvling. Instead, its far harder to gain kills then a 6 player servers duo the fact there are so many ppl and only so much spawns.

This is a big mistake from TP imo. The high player servers are really fun and i dont think people are interested in non-perk servers.

I cant imagine playing shopping center with only 6 people. Thanks for ruining our gameplay TP.

AzureFPS has maxruntimezombies set to 50 so the gameplay is better.
 
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maybe it would be more appropriate to make a server mutator for this for TWI to review so they can whitelist it?

I know that there are many maps that are being designed with more than 6 players in mind, and it's doubtful that ALL of the large scale servers should be considered "Exploiting" especially when there's that leveling tool and the perk builder maps out there. it's odd that they took away perks on the large player servers, but havn't come up with a way to do it for the leveling maps.

I myself enjoy playing on the large scale maps, since it gives me more the feeling of the final showdown of a group of survivors of the specimen wars making their last stand. the 6 player servers can be fun as well, but I feel that the player limit should be increased to a higher amount... like say... 12... 12 or 16 would be a good limit for allowing perks still.
 
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I cant imagine playing shopping center with only 6 people. Thanks for ruining our gameplay TP.

Oh grow up. They didn't ruin anything. People modded to increase player counts. That has nothing to do with TWI. TWI said, time and again, that it was going to be a 6 player game.

It's posts like this that make me hope TWI adds a "whiny accusatory fan" specimen in future updates for me to take a fire axe to.
 
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Oh grow up. They didn't ruin anything. People modded to increase player counts.

Au contrair Nenjin, au contrair.. it has infact ruined some fun for some people. Not for everyone, but still for some.

It's posts like this that make me hope TWI adds a "whiny accusatory fan" specimen in future updates for me to take a fire axe to.

Haha. And his attack could be to write forum posts which require a reply, before you can attack him.
 
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