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Stand Still Can't You See I'm Trying to Fix The Way Healing Works!?!

Devin

Member
May 17, 2009
14
1
Hey all, while trying to play a medic I've suffered the horrible accents telling people to stand still who just won't long enough. At first I thought this was implemented to make it harder to heal, i.e. if you want a heal you must sit still. Later I found that if I aim slightly ahead of where my target is walking than I have a much higher chance of a successful heal. This gives me the impression that when a heal attempt is made, the check to see if it landed is done server side. Would it be impossible to make this check client side?

When I run up to someone from behind to heal them, I sometimes go into ZED and see very very clearly that the needle goes strait into his arm but I spend no health points (don't know proper term for the med guns ammo). I think this is because on the server that player has started to move forward and on my client he's still standing there.

So I'm under the impression that the very repetitive voice clips are just a hot fix to the way the med gun works.
 
Devin is correct. The fire effect (tracing) delays regarding how high your Ping is.
If you are trying to heal a player that is running RIGHT in front of you whilst playing with higher pings, you will not be able to do it. Although you see the needle hits him.
The tracing can be done clientside, don't know if they had time for doing this though. (pretty low priority I guess)
 
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In general, doing things on the client is a bad idea short of just sending keypresses and doing input prediction. However, the healing issue is really annoying. The most annoying thing about it is that if you inject them(locally) you still have to wait for the reload animation to play out even if the server doesn't register the injection which means you have to wait a couple of seconds between each shot which potentially did nothing thus resulting in death.
 
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In general, doing things on the client is a bad idea short of just sending keypresses and doing input prediction. However, the healing issue is really annoying. The most annoying thing about it is that if you inject them(locally) you still have to wait for the reload animation to play out even if the server doesn't register the injection which means you have to wait a couple of seconds between each shot which potentially did nothing thus resulting in death.

You're right. at the very least if the med gun doesn't register a hit than we shouldn't be forced to sit through the loading sequence.
 
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The most annoying thing about it is that if you inject them(locally) you still have to wait for the reload animation to play out even if the server doesn't register the injection which means you have to wait a couple of seconds between each shot which potentially did nothing thus resulting in death.

It's the client-side injection range check vs server-side injection range check which is a nightmare. If we could chase people and spam the button until it works, that would be great. This would go with the frantic shooting style of the game :)

The syle of the injector quick recharge suggests to me the medgun isn't just for out-of-combat time when no zeds are about and people will happily stand still. I believe it should be usable when a teamate has made a mistake and is running from a horde of zeds and is on half-health or less, and cannot stop for a few seconds for a dozen zeds to jump on him/her (and the medic).

Could the range of the medgun be increased to accomodate for movement speed and latency, or could the client-side check not do the injection motion until the server responds that the heal landed?
 
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I think the reason this is broken is because the speed of the inject versus the reload time is comparable to the self-heal, which is why it drastically needs to be fixed. I think an insta-heal effect for the medigun would solve this, combined with the added function of the reload animation not playing in team heal mode, until said medipoints are spent to 0.
 
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I've been using medic more and more recently after discovering how easy it is to not get owned by Flesh Pounds when playing as one and I've noticed another thing! When healing someone you can only administer a new dose when their healing bar stops rising. i.e. when you heal yourself you aren't instantly given 20 HP or whatever but it administers it over 5 seconds, this is great and all but during this time you can't get any injections. I'm not even sure if this is intentional or not as a medic can 'inject' you while your bar is already rising even when you're stationary, their injection just does nothing and they lose no healing points. This is also amazingly annoying, especially when multiple people try to heal someone and I'm pretty sure your personal injections are immune to this limitation so is it a bug? Ideally, as mentioned above it'd only play the reloading animation once it properly registers and if the multiple healing at the same time is an intended limitation then it should tell you, otherwise it's just frustrating injecting someone 50 times only to be wasting time.
 
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This is something that bugs me as well, and there are a few workarounds.

First: Give the medigun the range of the fire axe. This will make it easier to heal teammates who are running in the same direction as you

Second: In the event that no target is in the medigun's hitscan path, have it check for acceptable targets within a short distance of the hitscan path and pick either the closest one to the player or the closest one to the path. If the engine allows it, look back to the frame that the player would have been acting on and check what the target would have most likely been. This allows for lateral hitbox shifts to not hamper targeting.

Third: Fix the hit detection system. That may sound vauge, but I keep finding myself in situations where the medigun either won't fire or won't work when: I am stationary, my target is stationary, my target is injured, my target is not being otherwise healed, and my target is another player. Sometimes jumping and aiming down at them fixes the problem, but other times it does nothing or causes it to go from 'no target' to 'animation fires but it's a dud'.

As far as multi-heals go, either the healing action should be rejected fire when a person is being healed by a third party, or the heals should stack.

Shooting blanks and reloading can be solved with a simple hack; let the stabbing animation fire, and wait for the server to respond before queuing up the reload animation. If the server says that the heal worked, then fire the animation. If the server says nothing, says it failed, or responds after the stab animation is completely finished (and it would cause a delay before the reload animation) then skip the reload animation completely. If the stab worked, even if the reload animation was skipped, then fire a 'Thanks for the heal' sound a few decibels higher than normal centered on the player to provide a distinct the success cue, and don't let them re-use the medigun until the reload time elapses.

That way the worst you would get is a reload animation that bugs when latency is high, but considering how many other things bug when the pings get high I wouldn't consider that much of an issue.
However, you might want to consider changing the medigun stab animation. Speed the stabbing part up, then have the medigun eject and replace the needle (I'm thinking retract the needle, have a short grinding sound, then kick an obviously-dulled needle out the side. Or stick a three-color "Ready/Replacing Needle/Changing Cartridge" light on the back, keep the grinding sound, and just follow it up with the tiny plink sound of a used needle falling into a storage bin). That would add maybe a second to the animation - long enough so pings could get to be ~400ms or so without having the reload animation skip, but short enough that it doesn't irritate the player too much.

It would also make it so that players weren't going around sharing needles like AIDS-riddled junkie hobos, and bring up the lesser 'Fridge Logic' question of "where do all these needles come from?", with the obvious answer of "Where the bloody hell do you think? It's got a bunch stored inside! Why did you THINK it was that large, you mindless git?"
 
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Hey all, while trying to play a medic I've suffered the horrible accents telling people to stand still who just won't long enough. At first I thought this was implemented to make it harder to heal, i.e. if you want a heal you must sit still. Later I found that if I aim slightly ahead of where my target is walking than I have a much higher chance of a successful heal. This gives me the impression that when a heal attempt is made, the check to see if it landed is done server side. Would it be impossible to make this check client side?

When I run up to someone from behind to heal them, I sometimes go into ZED and see very very clearly that the needle goes strait into his arm but I spend no health points (don't know proper term for the med guns ammo). I think this is because on the server that player has started to move forward and on my client he's still standing there.

So I'm under the impression that the very repetitive voice clips are just a hot fix to the way the med gun works.

First of all to some that can be offensive...
Second if people don't stand still they don't get heals, tell them to "Stand Still" or it won't work easy fix, you try sticking a needle in someones arm while running... it's difficult.
 
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if they don't want to stand still long enough to live then let them die, don't worry about it.

Usually that's not a problem, but when they're keeping something like a FP distracted for the team then it would probably be best that they not die.

You guys forget it is already a large realism leap to have a magical semi-automated syringe weapon capable of healing all wounds, and now you want it to be 3 feet long (fire axe)?

Well, more like 2-2.5 feet long - you know, about the length of a fully extended adult arm?
 
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