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[Game] Killzone 2

WTF. I'm in the palace where Radec orders his soldiers to hold us(Sev & Rico) away, and after three waves maybe, there's always just 1-2 soldiers left when some random explosion just kills me :/ This happened twice now, and the whole damn fight takes 15min every time minimum. I hate that kinda stuff - why something so frustrating shortly before (what I think to be) the end? Raising the difficulty level a bit is one thing but this is kinda weird lol.

I really liked how the story developed btw, very well told and the characters all have their own personalities.
 
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Multiplayer is a blast, I haven't been able to go back and finish the SP campaign because all I want to do is play warzone.

Also, DLC was announced today. Steel & Titanium map pack - 2 maps, one takes place on the Helghan train cruising down the line and the other takes place on the Vekta cruiser. Looks awesome! They also said next map pack will have remade popular maps from Killzone 1. Oh, and a new patch will be out before the DLC to fix a "bunch of things". DLC comes out end of April.
 
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I was sooooooooooo pumped for this game and it mostly lived to my expectations but I haven't played it in a while. I'll wait for the patch and def. try out the DLC, maybe get back into it. Just got distracted by other games....also I can't get by the stupid Radec palace crap either, I can get to the balcony on the third-highest difficulty but eventually two bastards come up on each side of the stairs and bash the hell out of me. You'd think that height advantage would make it a lot easier but then you remember the AI (which is the most impressive I've ever played agaisnt) won't leave cover but for a second and its two of you against about 500 of them, plus Radec is invisible. And the MG guy (geez already forgot his name) is terrible, just terrible. The teammate AI is so far behind the enemy's it just makes you wonder...why??!
 
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I just got my PS3 and I'm in love with this game, both SP and online. Does anyone still play? If so please add PSN "rakgitarmen" :)

Btw what was this "input lag" everyone was talking about? There's definitely some weight on the controls, but I think it makes them more realistic and fun. I tried the "high precision mode" in the controls menu but I couldn't notice any difference.
 
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The article is flawed in that he only looks at the animations of things he triggered. The way he tested this is way too simple.
a) the triggers are triggers and not clicking buttonss so just pressing them takes a bit of time and some games have a lower threshold than others.
b) he only looks at the animations he triggers, so if the game deliberately adds time (like he said Halo 3 does for the jump) this counts as "lag" while it really isn't.
c) he only looks at the animation which might not even be in sync with the real action. E.g. you might shoot someone and the server considers him dead but your sniper animation plays a little later (which is the case in Raven Shield on the PC, just to give an example. You have an option to sync up your animations with the actual shots fired, but it's not default, iirc).
d) he only tested actions while the real problem is unresponsive looking-around with mushy sticks!
E.g. when playing Far Cry Instincts/Evolution/Predator you are constantly annoyed by the tremendous control-lag but it doesn't really bother you that your shots may or may not be delayed. What really bothers you is that you can't aim properly because the controls are so mushy.
I mean, if you have mouse-lag in a game, do you have a problem with your shots being delayed or with your mouse feeling spongy?
e) I bet his wireless controller adds lag as well.

This technical stuff is very interesting for game-developers (who have much better ways to meassure this) but for gamers it only matters if something feels responsive or not.

Apparently many felt that KZ2 does/did not feel responsive. I don't have a ps3 so I can't comment on that, but I played my share of console games and there are some that are super responsive (Serious Sam, Dark Watch, ...), and some that are just laggy (the xbox Far Crys, Rainbow Six Black Arrow, ...) so I wouldn't say that laggy controls are "normal for console games".
A certain delay maybe. Every game has a certain delay. On the PC you can sort of minimize it by cranking out insane framerates and on consoles you are stuck on the same level as anyone else, but still. I wouldn't say laggy controls are "normal for console games".

Besides, if you like it in KZ2 and you think it adds a cool-feeling "weight" to the handling of the weapons I'd think it's fine.
 
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The article is flawed in that he only looks at the animations of things he triggered. The way he tested this is way too simple.
a) the triggers are triggers and not clicking buttonss so just pressing them takes a bit of time and some games have a lower threshold than others.
b) he only looks at the animations he triggers, so if the game deliberately adds time (like he said Halo 3 does for the jump) this counts as "lag" while it really isn't.
c) he only looks at the animation which might not even be in sync with the real action. E.g. you might shoot someone and the server considers him dead but your sniper animation plays a little later (which is the case in Raven Shield on the PC, just to give an example. You have an option to sync up your animations with the actual shots fired, but it's not default, iirc).
d) he only tested actions while the real problem is unresponsive looking-around with mushy sticks!
E.g. when playing Far Cry Instincts/Evolution/Predator you are constantly annoyed by the tremendous control-lag but it doesn't really bother you that your shots may or may not be delayed. What really bothers you is that you can't aim properly because the controls are so mushy.
I mean, if you have mouse-lag in a game, do you have a problem with your shots being delayed or with your mouse feeling spongy?
e) I bet his wireless controller adds lag as well.

This technical stuff is very interesting for game-developers (who have much better ways to meassure this) but for gamers it only matters if something feels responsive or not.

Apparently many felt that KZ2 does/did not feel responsive. I don't have a ps3 so I can't comment on that, but I played my share of console games and there are some that are super responsive (Serious Sam, Dark Watch, ...), and some that are just laggy (the xbox Far Crys, Rainbow Six Black Arrow, ...) so I wouldn't say that laggy controls are "normal for console games".
A certain delay maybe. Every game has a certain delay. On the PC you can sort of minimize it by cranking out insane framerates and on consoles you are stuck on the same level as anyone else, but still. I wouldn't say laggy controls are "normal for console games".

Besides, if you like it in KZ2 and you think it adds a cool-feeling "weight" to the handling of the weapons I'd think it's fine.

I agree mostly but if you read the article deeply, he uses a special Xbox controller that uses LED lights to indicate that the button is pressed. He doesn't have the same equipment for PS3 though.

On the other hand, measuring the reaction on the game's end is really subjective as you mentioned. An animation may have started but not noticeable yet, or the game may have delaying mechanisms inside. Though the article gives a reasonable idea.

Luckily most of the time the lag is not noticeable. And if all the players are playing at the same speed, it's not advantage nor disadvantage.
 
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And if all the players are playing at the same speed, it's not advantage nor disadvantage.
That's true, but it can still feel ****ty.:p

The LED is cool and all, but they are still triggers and games have different thresholds/deadzones (whatever you call it on a trigger) that might differ from that of the LED. So it's just another visual cue just as seeing him move his finger to press the trigger.

What he should measure (using a dedicated app and not a game!) is the delay of the signal from controller to console and the delay from the console to the monitor. Those are delays that every game ever made has and thus it's not relevant to discussing control-lag in console games.
The lag that is left over then still isn't the lag he wants to investigate because it still includes intentional delays.
E.g. adding time for the character to pull the trigger in-game makes the weapon seem heavier. So he needs developer input on what is intentional and what isn't.
The lag he now has is still not the lag he is after because he is still just looking at the animation not the inner working of the game.



In my opinion it's a lot simpler than all this testing makes it seem:
The delay of a decent monitor is negligible.
The delay of a decent controller is negligible.
The console doesn't add lag just because it's a console.

Games are capped at certain framerates and everyone knows VSync adds mouselag. The steadier (and higher!) your framerate is, the less mouselag you get.
If a game is capped at 60 and never dips below 60 it's not going to be noticeably laggy, especially since the controls by stick are more forgiving for this than a mouse.
If a game is capped at 60 fps but frequently drops below 60 it's going to be laggy but as the framerate is still pretty high it's not going to be too bad in most cases.
If a game is capped at 30 but it never dips below 30 it's going be less responsive than a 60 fps game because it only updates half as often, but it's not going to be laggy beyond that.
If a game is capped at 30 but barely runs at 30 it's going to be laggy and updates only half as fast as a 60 fps game and is closer to the really low framerates where it is percieved as "not smooth" so it's going to be pretty laggy.

In my opinion that's all there is to it. It's more noticeable on consoles than on PCs because everyone has the same hardware so if it's laggy for someone it's laggy for everyone. This makes it an issue of the game instead of an issue of someone's PC not being beefy enough.
It also makes it an everlasting issue because if it's laggy now it's going to be laggy forever, whereas on the PC it's going to play perfectly smooth after you sink some more money into your machine.
 
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I rented KZ2 a little while back and was VERY put off by the delayed controls. It wasn't just a "mushy" control stick issue either. I noticed that anything in game was delayed, whether it was just looking around, jumping, or actually firing a weapon. I haven't had this issue with any other PS3 game.

Its a shame because I could tell it was a great game, but I just couldn't stand to play it with the controls the way they were.
 
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