Walking the streets peacefully NOT an option during protests.

[I. Kant]

I haven't heard about this before, it is only now that I was made aware of the incident. The footage revealed is, well, rather disturbing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/business/2009/g20/7988812.stm

To my eyes, the man is conspicuously trying to keep a low-profile, evidently trying not to draw attention or appear to be protesting. In a situation like that, with a worked-up crowd all over the place, and he's strolling with his hands in his pockets, looking at his feet? That's like the Nazca lines of wanting to be left alone.

But that doesn't work, does it? Aight, remember this: when there's a protest around, you DO NOT want to be found in the street, just for the pure freak chance of an unprovoked incident.

EDIT: As an afterthought - was it the Milwall top that riled up the policeman so much? Did his threat prioritisation fail that hard?

 

[PNV]

Hmm, this very tough. I must give my condolences to the widow and the family of the man. Regarding the situation however, I am not sure what to say. Indeed, he was walking as if he wanted to be left alone, but why would you walk slow with your hands in your pockets with a line of policemen trying to move in behind you to contain the protesting crowd down the street. Before he was shoved, the other officers are touching and talking to him, mentioning for him to move out of the way, yet he maintained his slow speed and direction. For a few moments, it's almost as if he's obstructing them. However, I must say that a shove with that force was uncalled for, but then again, he did seem to be trying their patience and only after he was pushed to the ground did he actually seem to acknowledge their existance.

 

[Slinky]

its common knowledge that during protests you dont go walking in the streets, of course people are curious and are intrested in seeing whats happening, but when you wonder around the police dont know if you are one of the rioters or just taking a afternoon walk, but the fact that your there already puts you in as one of the rioters, cause at one point you may be throwing molotovs at the police and trashing windows, and when the cops are near you just act like you were just an innocent bystander (saw that alot during the removal of the soviet statue in estonia). And thats what makes it diffiucult for the police and i understand what they were trying to do, but its still sad that this happened and i wish my condolences for his family.

 

[Grobut]

To my eyes, the man is conspicuously trying to keep a low-profile, evidently trying not to draw attention or appear to be protesting. In a situation like that, with a worked-up crowd all over the place, and he's strolling with his hands in his pockets, looking at his feet? That's like the Nazca lines of wanting to be left alone.

Well he did die of a heart attack not long after, so it's possible he was feeling sick at this time, especially if other of his major organs where in a bad state too, that can leave people dazed and confused, it could also be what caused the heart attack, so there might just be a medical reason for it.

But that doesn't work, does it? Aight, remember this: when there's a protest around, you DO NOT want to be found in the street, just for the pure freak chance of an unprovoked incident.

EDIT: As an afterthought - was it the Milwall top that riled up the policeman so much? Did his threat prioritisation fail that hard?

You dont want to be near the police anymore than the protesters durring a riot, it's easy to look at the protesters and see how amped up they are on adrenaline and figure "uhh.. thats not a good state of mind for them to be in, better stay clear" , but the police are just as amped up, and just as likely to overreact and do something rash or stupid, they are every bit as dangerous to you as the protesters, actually more so, the protesters are likely to think you are one of them and leave you alone, the police will likely think you are a protester and go after you.

 

[D3terioNation]

The guy dident really know what was going on. He was trying to get home to watch the footie and was 'led' to the epicentre because all the roads were blocked off!

He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, but did appear to be giving the copper some jip!

Poor bastid

 

[BlackLabel]

At "least" he dident get shot and driven over two times like that poor fella in Genua.

 

[I. Kant]

Well he did die of a heart attack not long after, so it's possible he was feeling sick at this time.

Yes, I've thought of that too. I guess that is more than likely.

You dont want to be near the police anymore than the protesters durring a riot, it's easy to look at the protesters and see how amped up they are on adrenaline and figure "uhh.. thats not a good state of mind for them to be in, better stay clear" , but the police are just as amped up, and just as likely to overreact and do something rash or stupid, they are every bit as dangerous to you as the protesters, actually more so, the protesters are likely to think you are one of them and leave you alone, the police will likely think you are a protester and go after you.

Yes, I concur, I think exactly the same way. I realise what the police were trying to do, and them being humans I can begin to fathom what it must have been like with all that adrenaline going round... But the copper's crossed the line and I'm outraged by that, I'm outraged by this terrible, terrible knot of coincidences.
Yes, it's easy to say that it's obvious that you stay off the streets when there's a protest in your town, but there are some things you just can't cover. This is truly saddening.

 

[Sniperdragon]

YouTube - Rellen Feyenoord-Ajax 2005
Watch it.
Mind those are the hardest hooligans on the planet (Feyenoord hooligans, or SCF for those who know). If you have watched the tape, you know why the police is scared because of riots. This is why they tend to overreact. I don't agree to what that guy did (the dude obviously just wanted to be left alone), but still.. from his point of view the guy might as well have punched the police in the face suddenly.
Man.. If that happened in Rotterdam to a Feyenoord fan the police would have to be sure to watch their back for a while... nothing like that in England?

 

[Pvt.pile]

nothing like that in England?

Your joking right?? Although I believe it isnt as bad as it was in the 80's/90's.

I feel sorry the poor guys family esp. having to watch that tape on the news .

 

[SheepDip]

There are 2 tapes out actually - the reason he was giving lip to the police officer was because the same police officer had previously - for no reason - smacked him over with a baton.

This video has this first incident in it - if you look the officer in question actually comes specifically out of his way to hit him?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...cers-come-forward-over-G20-protest-death.html

No excuse imo, he wasn't doing anything wrong, he wasn't shouting, goading the police or being unruly in any way whatsoever (or so all witnesses and videos seem to show). The silence from the police speaks volumes about his lack of involvement or any excuse they would have for treating him like that.
And it's fair to say if it wasn't just this one event where he got shoved over then it is more likely that the treatment he got from the police played a part in his heart attack - however natural it may have been.

On a slightly different topic, the police tactics during large protests encourage violent behaviour - I know several people who were penned in for 8 hours without being allowed to leave.

That guy however, went to work like any other day - and probably thought to himself how annoying or inconvenient his walk home is going to be because of the protests. Now he's dead, possibly because of them.

 

[fiftyone]

This just makes me vomit !

There is absolutely no provocation that can been seen in the video (x2).
The copper knew that when he pushed the victim, that he had his hands in his pockets, this is known to be a submissive posture by anyone who has had 'crowd control' formation/training.

Comparing this incident to a deliberate hooligan attack is just not valid.

Bad...

 

[Sniperdragon]

This just makes me vomit !

There is absolutely no provocation that can been seen in the video (x2).
The copper knew that when he pushed the victim, that he had his hands in his pockets, this is known to be a submissive posture by anyone who has had 'crowd control' formation/training.

Comparing this incident to a deliberate hooligan attack is just not valid.

Bad...

The problem is, sometimes things can spark from leave-me-alone guy to hooligan-rioteer-punch-in-da-face.
I think not doing anything has happened in the past too much (expecting that people behave in their good nature, instead of the bad), and now the Police is taking a "harder" stance as to not allow any danger to get to them. However, what the guy here doing is clearly wrong. Not because the guy was walking with his hands in his pockets- it could be a trick to catch the police by suprise- but because there was a group of 5 more policemen around him. No way he could be overwhelmed.

 

[Grobut]

On a slightly different topic, the police tactics during large protests encourage violent behaviour - I know several people who were penned in for 8 hours without being allowed to leave.

Absolutely, many of the manouvers they use are not ment to disperse an unruly crowd, but to ensnare it, forcing a confrontation.. manouvers like that have their place, but they are often used at the wrong times (IE: it should be a last resort used if the crowd has run amok and they need to detain them, but it is often used as the standard all purpose manouver, meaning that situations that could have been defused are instead made worse).

Besides that, it's often the wrong cops that get assigned to this sort of duty, it's usually young and inexperianced beat cops you see on the frontlines at events like this, and that's not exactly brilliant when it comes to keeping the peace.. and there allways seems to be a few of them who seems just as intend on starting a fight as some of protesters are, why such types aren't pulled aside and told to cool down by a seniour officer i'll never understand.

 

[fiftyone]

Well the copper has just been suspended (only from his duties* dutys * dutties*) which is a step in the right direction.

 

[[3.SA]Koba]

what an as-hole. He deserves a good public beating and should definitely be fired.

but I gotta say - a few innocent men, laying down on the ground or taking a stroll in the wrong place, get shot every year in America. Maybe this video is more shocking to European audiences where the police exercise their discretion better.

 

[Grobut]

Maybe this video is more shocking to European audiences where the police exercise their discretion better.

Nah, we see worse than this too, guns dont play a part quite as frequently here, but we get "bad shootings" aswell from time to time also, i think our last one here was less than a month ago (2 cops shot and killed an unarmed soldier in his own appartment).

I think the reason this photage shocks people (aside from the fact that the guy died), is that it breaks peoples confidence in the police, shows them acting very unprofesionally, peronally i've seen it before at protests with my own eyes (the worst i've seen was a guy calmly sitting on the ground doing nothing, and 2 cops started beating him with their clubs for no reason, lots of blood), but its rare that it is caught on camera or shown on the news like this..

I guess it has made a few people rethink what goes on at protests like this, and see that maybe its not only the protesters that are at fault when one turns into a riot, maybe the police can also play a part in thease things going wrong.

 

[LordKhaine]

It's worth remembering a number of other attacks on protesters were caught on film too. Like that woman who was shouting at a cop, who slapped her in the face, and knocked her down with a Baton to the back of the legs (If I recall correctly).

I have to say the cop looked pretty on the edge in the video, close to panicking even.

 

[gautrek]

It's worth remembering a number of other attacks on protesters were caught on film too. Like that woman who was shouting at a cop, who slapped her in the face, and knocked her down with a Baton to the back of the legs (If I recall correctly).

I have to say the cop looked pretty on the edge in the video, close to panicking even.

Yes but he told her to go away at least twice.But she kept getting in his face and shout abuse at him.He then pushed here away and she came back again shouting abuse.So what the f*** did she expect?
You need to use a bit of common sense.Plus she looked like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth in the interviews afterwards.But did you see the venom and hatred she was showing at the demo.

 

[Hunt3r.j2]

I haven't heard about this before, it is only now that I was made aware of the incident. The footage revealed is, well, rather disturbing.

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/business/2009/g20/7988812.stm[/URL]

To my eyes, the man is conspicuously trying to keep a low-profile, evidently trying not to draw attention or appear to be protesting. In a situation like that, with a worked-up crowd all over the place, and he's strolling with his hands in his pockets, looking at his feet? That's like the Nazca lines of wanting to be left alone.

But that doesn't work, does it? Aight, remember this: when there's a protest around, you DO NOT want to be found in the street, just for the pure freak chance of an unprovoked incident.

EDIT: As an afterthought - was it the Milwall top that riled up the policeman so much? Did his threat prioritisation fail that hard?

If only the guy had a .40 SW and a CCW... things might've been different.

There's England for ya, where guns are considered so evil only teenagers who've decided they want to fight for the country can touch a full-auto.

 

[I. Kant]

Oh, so he should have shot the copper? Yes, I guess then he'd be left alone, wouldn't he?