Finland school gunman kills nine
- Thread starter DraKon2k
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With only a knife, he wouldn't even try, he wanted to kill as many people as possible and then kill himself fast. a knife wouldn't be the way to do it.
if he didn't have access to guns, he would have tried to have access to it by any possible means, and if even then he still doesn't manage to get the gun, then he would have lived with the fantasy of killing them until he got over it. at least thats what I think it would have happened
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lets say all of us had a loaded gun in our hands 24/7 every day of our life, i bet you anything that most of us would have ended up shooting someone.
you know those days where things go really bad or someone does you harm, if you had a gun it would have been hard to resist.
heck, i even ended up taking a knife to school in my pocket because some bullies were always randomly beating up kids in the bus. and at a certain period i was so scared in the bus that i had my hand on my knife ready to stab them if they decided to take on me. wich never happened luckely.
here on the news they are kind of pointing out what i already thought of finland.
that it's a golden cage for young people, it's a beautifull, wealthy country. but for young people it seems to be the most boring place on earth, it's night half the time there now, no sunlight or distraction are verry depressing, and some get bored and depressed to the point that they go nuts and do things like this.
obviously those people are weaker minded than the average person, and will no matter where they live end up doing crazy stuff, become criminals, murderers, rapers, lawyers, and in the worst case they can become a combination of all these, and become politicians!
you know those days where things go really bad or someone does you harm, if you had a gun it would have been hard to resist.
heck, i even ended up taking a knife to school in my pocket because some bullies were always randomly beating up kids in the bus. and at a certain period i was so scared in the bus that i had my hand on my knife ready to stab them if they decided to take on me. wich never happened luckely.
here on the news they are kind of pointing out what i already thought of finland.
that it's a golden cage for young people, it's a beautifull, wealthy country. but for young people it seems to be the most boring place on earth, it's night half the time there now, no sunlight or distraction are verry depressing, and some get bored and depressed to the point that they go nuts and do things like this.
obviously those people are weaker minded than the average person, and will no matter where they live end up doing crazy stuff, become criminals, murderers, rapers, lawyers, and in the worst case they can become a combination of all these, and become politicians!
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I have nothing against people choosing suicide, so long as they don't go all Columbine on the world.
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There was one case here in Finland aswell where 18yo stabbed 14yo to death and later it was noticed that the 18yo person had been in line for years and waiting to recheive mental treatment. And the real motive to this entire incident was that he just wanted to get into treatment.
So thinking about that and this latest ape**** going on, if you are frushtrated enough that you can't get any proper help (just getting anti-depressant pills is not good enough) or you'd have to be in line for years - it is not really a surprise some people start doing stupid things that labels them as some kind of ****ers.
First school shooting sure made more or less hassle, then this stabbing incident pretty much raised a question that what the ****'s going on with youth mental care. And now as the current ape**** occured - both of those have increased like ^10. Especially the lack of youth mental health care.
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I wonder how long we still have to go untill our governement will find some funding for youth and general mental care. And for other social services.
I
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It wil happen again and again if something doesn't change fast in society imo. Lack of mental health care, the closed-minded nature of most people, etc. I don't "support" what they do, but I do have empathy for them. If you read Eric Harris' or Auvinen's writings, they are obviously troubled people, but intelligent as well. It's kind of a waste really.
It's all about looking closer. Look closer.
Whenever something like this happens I always bring up this Marilyn Manson quote. When asked what he would say to the Columbine shooters if he could go back:
"I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did."
It's all about looking closer. Look closer.
Whenever something like this happens I always bring up this Marilyn Manson quote. When asked what he would say to the Columbine shooters if he could go back:
"I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did."
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No civilian should have the right to carry fire-arms PERIOD! Its not just about murders, its also about accidental deaths and suicides! Remove the weapon and those deaths WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURED!
Killers arent always psychos. It could be yourself or a family member!
Especially in a (relatively) peaceful country like Finland of all places!
He could have just as easily made a bomb and killed more people...
Your logic fails on this one.
If I was allowed to carry my USP .40 and some psycho started shooting people I would point my weapon and BOOOM HEADSHOT!
I am not Joking.
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That is true, in the US, a concealed handgun is probably the best form of self defense. I think a law-abiding citizen can prevent a lot of deaths, if he knows when to draw and has a good aim. You should draw only when you have to and only fire when you have absolutely no choice (when your life of that of others is in immediate danger).
In Europe, gun control works reasonably well though. It's not the gun that's the problem, it's the violent nature of a culture. America is more violent, has more criminals. If I were to move there I'd carry too. Here I feel perfectly safe without one. Look at Switzerland, lots of guns there, relatively little gun crime. IIRC it's like a militia - if you want a gun, you're part of the militia, and you have to score a shooting test every year.
It's a difficult problem. I do know that gun control would never work in the US. Criminals love gun-free zones.
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I couldn't agree more with Switchblade's post and the above one by DraKon2k.
It's never about completely preventing gun crimes, murders. We will all agree that such a feat is impossible. However, it can be limited, it can be driven down in numbers. Of course, it's only a matter of escaping from the real problem - that even in relatively small communities (14k in this example), where you'd imagine people would at least know each other by sight, you will still have instances where the dragnet fails to round up the dangerous elements. Truth is, we communicate more, but we understand each other less, apparently.
It's never about completely preventing gun crimes, murders. We will all agree that such a feat is impossible. However, it can be limited, it can be driven down in numbers. Of course, it's only a matter of escaping from the real problem - that even in relatively small communities (14k in this example), where you'd imagine people would at least know each other by sight, you will still have instances where the dragnet fails to round up the dangerous elements. Truth is, we communicate more, but we understand each other less, apparently.
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It would be easier to obtain explosive material, create some kind of delayed or remote detonator, plant it and set it off succesfully???? Oh dear...
How is that easier then obtaining a hand-gun legally and going on the rampage killing indiscriminately??
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Just because 20 year old person who plays RO decides to dress up like soviet infantryman during WW2 and acquire a working PPSh and starts rampage and then screams "oooh yea! real life RO!", should RO be made illegal because it can influence people to do that?
Or should we make cartoons illegal because one kid might take influence to whack and beat someone like they did in the specific cartoon?
Or should we ban all libraries and any education related with history or violence because they can influence few inviduals in odd directions?
20 year old playing RO is legal, getting working PPSh could be possible, collecting militaria is legal, but for some reason he gets some brain malfunction and decides to go RO-goes-irl crap massacre. Watching basic cartoons are not illegal (like Tom and Jerry or such), but they still have more violence than some movies does, yet it's "just" slapstick humour. Who knows what it can influence to some people.
And libraries sure have more or less whacky information and all of them are entirely legal, and then one challenged invidual decides to read a book about torturing history, decides that "Oh wow, this is soooo ****ing cool" and searches more about the subject and how to do some specific torturing and so on. And I'd say let's drop history from schools, those books might have information how Hannibal rampaged in the Europe and one oddball decides to try exact same thing and steals an elephant and so on.
Get my drift?
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Not really
What was this guys motivation then? If he listens to the death metal garbage popular in Scandinavian countries, then yes, ban it all for sake of humanity!
What was this guys motivation then? If he listens to the death metal garbage popular in Scandinavian countries, then yes, ban it all for sake of humanity!
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The game/cartoon/movie/music isn't used to harm others, it's an unfortunate motivation for some one with mental problems. A gun is used to harm others. So unless I start to see people throwing with sharpened DVDs I see no reason in banning such things as games etc. I agree with nimsky, gun control works in Europe, not in America due to culture. Destroying alot of guns and making it harder if not almost impossible to get one (especially when you're under 18) worked in Belgium, I see no reason why it wouldn't work in Finland.
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Oh really? Knives are very deadly and easily capable of the same sort of damage in the right circumstances. Look at these;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1376982.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7442327.stm
The ugly fact is people can snap and cause harm and death to others regardless of whether they be using a firearm, knife, automobile or any other sort of weapon. Legislating and banning or restricting whatever implement someone uses in these tragic events is just a knee jerk reaction which does absolutely nothing to address the underlying issues that cause these things. The only way such reactionary measures could work is if you banned and restricted every possible thing that could be used in aid of killing another person and insulated everyone in a bubble, which of course is impossible.
That's exactly what happened in my country, sweeping bans and restricitions were brought in after the Port Arthur massacre and it has had arse all effect on the gun crime or violent crime rates, in fact they are worse today than they ever were. All it achieved was destroying a lot of licenced guns while not touching the 'hot' guns that are still easily obtainable in the right circles.
This massacre in Finalnd was an absolute failure of law enforcement, I've seen the videos this guy posted on youtube, if someone did that over here they'd have their licence taken in a snap. Shame on those cops imho.
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Yes really
offcourse a knive is dangerous too, but imagine this guy standing in a classroom with a knive, how many people would it take to hit him on the head with a chair or other means of stopping him, or if you'r no hero you can run away.
Now picture the same guy in the classroom with a gun (or some semi automatic gun that some gunnuts feel they have a right to own), does it look like the same situation to you? can you outrun a bullet? I don't think so.
imo (and where I live) guns have no place in public live, we do not need them and no accidents happen with them.
Guns are tools, a working guy without tools can not work.
You can not stop a madman from freaking out, but you can make it difficult for him to use the tools to do his damage
offcourse a knive is dangerous too, but imagine this guy standing in a classroom with a knive, how many people would it take to hit him on the head with a chair or other means of stopping him, or if you'r no hero you can run away.
Now picture the same guy in the classroom with a gun (or some semi automatic gun that some gunnuts feel they have a right to own), does it look like the same situation to you? can you outrun a bullet? I don't think so.
imo (and where I live) guns have no place in public live, we do not need them and no accidents happen with them.
Guns are tools, a working guy without tools can not work.
You can not stop a madman from freaking out, but you can make it difficult for him to use the tools to do his damage
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It's a lot harder to stop a determined person with a knife than hollywood would have you think...
I still stand by my point that banning whatever tool someone uses to kill another person is not addressing the real problem. But hey this is the point the anti's always ignore
I still stand by my point that banning whatever tool someone uses to kill another person is not addressing the real problem. But hey this is the point the anti's always ignore
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I still stand by my point that banning whatever tool someone uses to kill another person is not addressing the real problem. But hey this is the point the anti's always ignore
The real problem is people killing each other with guns, I thought that was what this topic was about.
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