Brothers in Arms HH E3 trailer
- Thread starter EvilCrocodile
- Start date
How many genuine war crimes would have been committed if the US didnt nuke 'em huh??
Think before you post
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Wow. Just, wow.
Dude, people are still suffering from those bombs. Children get born deformed because of those bombs. We're talking the pain and suffering of generations here, instead of 'some' thousands of other warcrimes.
Think about that before you post.
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So I guess you'd rather the US invaded the main-land huh?
And are you 2 even aware of the atrocities committed by the Japanese during WW2? May I suggest you visit ogrishforums.com and look up 'Japanese atrocities'.
Will be a bit of a shock to the system, but by the sounds of things you two need it!
And are you 2 even aware of the atrocities committed by the Japanese during WW2? May I suggest you visit ogrishforums.com and look up 'Japanese atrocities'.
Will be a bit of a shock to the system, but by the sounds of things you two need it!
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SO WHAT?
Germans comminted war crimes. Russians comminted at least as many war crimes. Japanese commited war crimes. So did the UK and the US. They are just less known because they actually won the war and the only logical consequence it that silence is kept about that. If there wasn't the cold war then we wouldn't know about the soviet war crimes as much as we do today. If germany hadn't lost the war then nobody would've talked about their warcrimes either. That's the way it goes.
And saying that nukeing two mayor cities which still has consequences to the japanese population living there is not a war cry...lol, k.
But I tell you what: Imo BiA never really discriminated the germans and they won't do it in HH either I'm sure. It's not like CoD2 where germans are being displayed as the pure nazi evil. So I can pretty much live with that, and to be fair when I'm playing as american soldier fighting against germans it would probably get a bit boring if half of the game is just there for showing what nice people the nazis were.
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The point is, in FPSs it's always your enemy that shoots civilians and burns down churches and **** and then your side comes in and waves the green/blue/white/good coloured flag and the townsfolk come out of their basements and cheer hooray. I know I'm picking a fight where there isn't a foe but it just feels like I'm playing a giant newsreel from the 1890s or something.
Replace the Yellow Menance or the Communist Infiltrator with any bad guy from any FPS ever made and you get the same effect.
Replace the Yellow Menance or the Communist Infiltrator with any bad guy from any FPS ever made and you get the same effect.
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I wouldn't want to see Baker, Red and the other guys comitting war-crimes! For one it wouldn't fit their character, and I'm supposed to be friend with them over the course of the game so having them be psychopathic cold-blooded murderers doesn't help in that regard. No, no war-crimes from your boys!
Though, If your people committed war-crimes they were either considered an unpleasant necessity or an understandable outburst of rage, given the situation. I don't think everyone always thought of them as war-crimes in the emotional sense (as opposed to the legal term).
Where-as what enemies did to your troops must have seemed like an automatical crime no matter how "correct" it was. And if actual war-crimes of the enemy occured that would stand out as especially horrible and would be used to strengthen the image of the enemy as a monster.
The same happens in the game, so to speak. As long as they don't over-do it I'm fine with it. I don't want this to turn into a horror-show but it doesn't have to be overly PC either.
Though, If your people committed war-crimes they were either considered an unpleasant necessity or an understandable outburst of rage, given the situation. I don't think everyone always thought of them as war-crimes in the emotional sense (as opposed to the legal term).
Where-as what enemies did to your troops must have seemed like an automatical crime no matter how "correct" it was. And if actual war-crimes of the enemy occured that would stand out as especially horrible and would be used to strengthen the image of the enemy as a monster.
The same happens in the game, so to speak. As long as they don't over-do it I'm fine with it. I don't want this to turn into a horror-show but it doesn't have to be overly PC either.
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You do know that propaganda is best hidden in entertainment, right? And that it is the most efficient where it isn't recognized as propaganda, right?
I'm not saying there is bad propaganda in BiA:HH but if someone thinks so I don't see why he should not post that here so we can discuss it?
I read this: Why should we care, why do you care, it's just a game, don't talk about that, does it matter, so what... too often nowadays.
If you're not interested, show it by not showing anything. If you are interested in something else that you feel we forget over our useless ramblings, post that.
I'm not saying there is bad propaganda in BiA:HH but if someone thinks so I don't see why he should not post that here so we can discuss it?
I read this: Why should we care, why do you care, it's just a game, don't talk about that, does it matter, so what... too often nowadays.
If you're not interested, show it by not showing anything. If you are interested in something else that you feel we forget over our useless ramblings, post that.
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I suggest you educate yourself a bit more. What the Japanese did are on par but in alot of cases more disgusting then even the nazis.
Look it up if you have the guts
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Boy you are really reaching here. I suggest you (and not just you, but everyone who is contributing here) stop derailing the thread with this political agenda talk. Immediately. This thread is about a game, a form of entertainment, a way to unwind.
If you, or anyone else, feels such an urge to talk about war crimes, then take it to a new thread or don't talk about it at all. That is, provided you can start a thread about it without bringing politics into the mix, as once that happens the thread will be closed in compliance with the rules here.
I trust that I've made myself crystal clear.
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The question for me wasn't "which country did what?" but "should war-crimes be depicted in BiA:HH and if yes, which side's?". If you count that as a political question I won't oppose that but I'd say, from my judgement, it is well within discussable limits despite its political nature.
As for listing war-crimes committed by this and that country: That's nonsense and has no place in any thread including this one. Especially this idea some people seem to have that one countries crime are canceled out by another countries bigger crimes. If you want to start deleting, start there.
As for listing war-crimes committed by this and that country: That's nonsense and has no place in any thread including this one. Especially this idea some people seem to have that one countries crime are canceled out by another countries bigger crimes. If you want to start deleting, start there.
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What there is to discuss about a fact that has been possibly done since the dawn of mankind more or less? I prefer seeing things as they are - even if they are not nice things.
The fact BiA is about the second world war should raise eyebrows (or any war game in general). You get entertained by killing people (even though virtual ones) and maybe learn a thing or two on the way. Killing is fine then and some high-brutality gores, but including the fact that could be done by any side in any war and might have been done before is not exactly tolerable? I know it is good to draw the line somewhere, but on authencity's point of view - that is indeed a great addition.
BiA might not have been "as realistic" as some games, but it has been more authentic than few games combined. So the fact they add more authencity to their product suddenly means we have a big problem going on?
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Yes. War, as horrible as it may be, aheres to rules, just as civilian life. These are different rules. You are allowed to kill people in war, for example. You are however not allowed to murder them and the depiction of murder is something else as the depiction of a kill.
The moral weight behind it is different even if the end-result might be more or less the same. That's also why I enjoy campy horror movies ala Army of Darkness but I am disgusted by movies like Hostel. It's not the gore that matters but the moral weight behind it. I for one am not entertained by movies like Hostel and I wouldn't be entertained by a game that would show war-crimes en-masse.
In BiA:HH's case I already stated I can live with a scene or two where Germans commit one for added character motivation on the American side, but I wouldn't want one of "my boys" to indulge in such matters because I feel it's better to develop some kind of emotional bond with your squad for immersion's sake. I think this helps the immersion more than the doubtfully added authenticy of them committing war-crimes.
I see your point though.
The moral weight behind it is different even if the end-result might be more or less the same. That's also why I enjoy campy horror movies ala Army of Darkness but I am disgusted by movies like Hostel. It's not the gore that matters but the moral weight behind it. I for one am not entertained by movies like Hostel and I wouldn't be entertained by a game that would show war-crimes en-masse.
In BiA:HH's case I already stated I can live with a scene or two where Germans commit one for added character motivation on the American side, but I wouldn't want one of "my boys" to indulge in such matters because I feel it's better to develop some kind of emotional bond with your squad for immersion's sake. I think this helps the immersion more than the doubtfully added authenticy of them committing war-crimes.
I see your point though.
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Stuff like cut-off genitalia that are being fed to the person they belong to, before being decapitated?
I know enough stuff, that isnt the point.
I didnt say any option was better then the other. Best of all would be if there hadnt been war at all.
Still, the atom bombs where a 'shocking device' to force peace. It ended the war sooner then wouldve happened with an invasion, killing more soldiers and allowing more chances for warcrimes.
But now generations of people who didnt have anything to do with the past still suffer, children being born without arms or legs, or so deformed they die after the first few years etc.
There isnt a good option. But do commited warcrimes allow you to bomb the **** out of helpless civilians, contaminating the ground for years to come, and spreading disease, sickness and physical inperfections?
Not only did they kill millions in 1 blow at that time, but they are still killing people there now.
Do a couple of thousands of warcrimes, no matter how horrific they may be, justify that? Is that fair to those people who didnt have anything to do with those warcrimes at all?
But back on topic:the bombing of Eindhoven pretty much could be considered a warcrime as well, since it was a retaliation against civilians, there was no military camp to target.
So naturally, they cant display that bombing in the game without displaying a warcrime, even though it might not be so much of an obvious one like murdering civilians in front of your eyes.
It shouldnt really go any further then that though, i'm not waiting for a chance to run into a house where a platoon of soldiers is molesting a girl or anything.
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I wasn't really calling for Baker's Dozen to commit war crimes to even out the scales, but I meant perhaps somewhere in the background you would see Americans leading POWs off into the woods or something with that same kind of "you don't see it but you know what's going on" effect that they used with the scream, shot and then the pan up from a dead woman in the video posted here.
And THEN you could have your bonding moment where your boys whisper to each other about how things are getting more ****ed up by the day or something.
And THEN you could have your bonding moment where your boys whisper to each other about how things are getting more ****ed up by the day or something.
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That would be a good way, yes. Might be interesting to see and it would work for the bonding aspect too.
They already started this. Which is why we are discussing whether that's good or bad and how it could be done better. And yes, having no war-crimes at all would be an option too. I don't get your rolleyes!?Or how about no warcrimes at all?
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