What type of Panzer V is used in RO?

[Atomskytten]

I've been wondering for some time what type of the Panzer V/Panther is used in Red Orchestra? The reason for my wondering is the physical appearance of the one we have now seems to be sporting parts from the Panther A/D as well as from the Panther G.

What it looks like to me is this:

Turret: Panther G
Drivers periscope plus hatch: Panther G
Hull: Panther A/D

Anyone else noticed this too?

 

[LukeFF]

The Vehicle Data Sheets say Panther G.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

here i go:

the RO panther has:
-extended fenders mostly seen on D models
-it seems to have a D-A hull, because of the fueltank extensions at the rear, but while it does NOT have a hatch on the front for the driver?? wich is impossible.
-late G model improved exhaust pipes
-late G model extended air-intake on rear deck
-late G model improved gun mantlet
-G model rotating driver periscope
-G model cupola
-G model driver hatches
-G model turret

basically the RO panther is a techically impossible combination of all panther models.
just look at the hull, it has a G-model top, A-model sides and rear and a G-model front with D-model fenders :??
it's even impossible to make it look like an old panther that has been upgrade or repaired, since that would have required to cut 2 tanks in half and weld them back together

 

[TT33]

RO- tanks are composites of alot of different tanks. Although the Panther seems more geared towards being an ausf G verison.
Look at the Tiger I which for example:
-Late war light configuration
-1942 desert ("Afrika") filters
-Early pistol port on the left side of turret instead of esc hatch
-Early rubber rimmed wheels
-Early cupola, although I think it has the new Panther engine on it since it has the same engine sound-?
-1 set of track holders-???
-later war optic block on turret

 

[Xendance]

And does the normal player spot these things? No, I don't at least.

 

[Switchblade]

panzer is the one with the tracks, right?

 

[SchutzeSepp]

And does the normal player spot these things? No, I don't at least.

well how many players knew before playing RO, that there were several ppsh's models, or that guns like the mp41 or g41 existed? i didn't, and now they all know.
heck, i couldn't see the difference between t34/85 /76 or IS2 when i started playing RO. now i can tell the models apart at 1000 meters without binocs.

the point is that thanks to RO i can play the wise-guy when someone asks me to identify a gun or tank in a book. and vehicles like the panther are a missed opportunity to educate the players in a fun way, if somebody went through the trouble of making these models, then why not make them accurate?

 

[EvilTwin]

well how many players knew before playing RO, that there were several ppsh's models, or that guns like the mp41 or g41 existed? i didn't, and now they all know.
heck, i couldn't see the difference between t34/85 /76 or IS2 when i started playing RO. now i can tell the models apart at 1000 meters without binocs.

the point is that thanks to RO i can play the wise-guy when someone asks me to identify a gun or tank in a book. and vehicles like the panther are a missed opportunity to educate the players in a fun way, if somebody went through the trouble of making these models, then why not make them accurate?

D and G Panthers had a love child and thats what we use in RO. It looks like Panther and thats enough for me and id say 99% of RO players.

Ps. Nobody likes wise-guys.

 

[TT33]

D and G Panthers had a love child and thats what we use in RO. It looks like Panther and thats enough for me and id say 99% of RO players.
Ps. Nobody likes wise-guys

Composite models really bug me maybe because I used build a lot of plastic models of them so I may be a little detail crazy but on the other hand it really does detract from the realism of the game not just because they look general because they behave like that as well for example if you wanted to do a lets say a... 1941 battle ( um Moscow or something) and the tank is a cross between a better armored 1942 and a 1941 like the T-60 for example. So you go in and you place it in the map because it has more armor it becomes stronger against an earlier foe like say the... Pz IV F'1' (when in reality the weight of the round was probably enough to crush it) This might appear small to non-avid tankers but the discripancies build up significantly especially if you use alot of different tanks they will alter gameplay of a map due to not only vehicles being stronger or weaker than they should be but quickier /slower and having better or worse hitting power. Being more specific by year/variant (Panther ausf G ect.) Is alot more exact not pin point due to field modifications, early and later verisons,ect. but close enough especially if the models are overlapped on maps ( Panther G's and A's on same map).

Sadly some people are under the impression that the "Panther" is the King Tiger- so I wouldnt think they notice a neon orange monster truck painted with ugly lime green letters that read "Oz the Exterminatior" on the side if it drove by them on RO.-lol

 

[Switchblade]

Sadly some people are under the impression that the "Panther" is the King Tiger- so I wouldnt think they notice a neon orange monster truck painted with ugly lime green letters that read "Oz the Exterminatior" on the side if it drove by them on RO.-lol

I guess I am "some people" then, I havent encountered the monster truck though, in what map can I find that one?

but seriously, imo this realism thing goes way to far, it's a game, not a war
Just my 2c (which at current rates equels app €0.006 so don't value it to high )

 

[Oldih]

One possibility is just lack of reference photos, even though this seems rather unlikely or somewhat absurd.

E.G. sure you can always visit some museums and snatch some photos, but if there's something missing they might need to find original photos and such to cover it up and it may cause these cross-overs. Kinda like it is hard to model soldier's backside if you only can see a reference photo from the front, unless you know 100% how the back should look.


And another possibility is the fact that there is always some kind of line generalising and details. For the same reason we can presume that as RO Panther looks like Panther and generally acts as one, it works fine overall. Sure, if TWI would want they could have added other models, but I believe they presumed it to be fine and work on the general level.

E.G. german soldier model. To say it roughly every german soldier model would indicate that the guy is a rifleman in the eastern front @ 1941 - 1942, if you just look the details. And then when you pay attension you see that every soldier is kinda like rifleman (there is one thing in german player model which has something that can be considered 'rifleman exclusive', as from searching more or less original photos from books or such I have only seen one photo where guy with an SMG carrying this item). While it is wrong, and especially if we go to details in late war these models are just plain wrong more or less authencity or accuracy wise, they still look good and do their job - to look like german WW2 soldiers. Not to mention soviet player models or other things like that.


So, one big problem, atleast I presume to be, is weenie factor or perfectionism. While yes, you can always note some mistakes (like that typo in the Tiger tank sights) and possibly report them, their gameplay affection value is rather minimal. Expect for those who considers a minor typo in the sights as a major problem. I just don't get it how come someone could make such a fuss and cuss that tiger sights have a typo... when only thing it actually affects is the fact it may look silly. And even if there would be real, 100% original typoed tiger optics, it still would've been in service no matter of the typo.


Sure, I agree that if something is wrong - it is indeed wrong, farby, annoying, violating authencity and such. However, one very good thing to remember is that after all - RO is a game. Not a time machine, not a war simulation. Just bit more realism-biased FPS game. What it is designed to be, generally authentic WW2 FPS game, it works quite fine in that job.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

i don't think RO has become a great game because of the "hey, lets not check if what we are doing is possible, as long as most people don't notice" way of thinking that some people here seem to promote.
im happy if they said "yes we made a mistake there", but instead it seems more like: **** of you ***** go *** a ***

i suppose that has been their policy, to make models and soldiers that generally look like they should, so they would partially fit in the biggest timeline possible.
but why? if most people don't know all those details, why bother mixing everything together if the regular player won't notice anyway? the only result of this is that people who DO know some parts of the war better are left with frustration. i just don't see the advantage of this

 

[Oldih]

i don't think RO has become a great game because of the "hey, lets not check if what we are doing is possible, as long as most people don't notice" way of thinking that some people here seem to promote.

More likely "why make all 5389156389513453891 diffrent variations from erstaz to top quality and not to mention product flaws and wear and tear and such when we could make something that works in general, even though it may be slightly wrong"

But then again, it is good question to ask why they didn't finish some things in the first place. I guess that's just a mystery to us forever.

 

[worluk]

read the manual pdf, there is the reason...
(i think this is what i meant http://www.redorchestragame.com/download/p13_sectionid/5/p13_fileid/18)

not sure, maybe it was in a mod pdf

 

[silent assassin]

a few tanks seem to be a mixed bag of different variants. Look at the p3, it has a 50mm cannon even on the early war maps.

Perhaps the devs actually went to museums etc to study the tanks, seeing as their are very few panthers in the world today they may have had to rely on photos from the net which could have caused all sorts of mix ups.

I think its just to save time making 2-3 different tank variants each of which would only be used perhaps once.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

More likely "why make all 5389156389513453891 diffrent variations from erstaz to top quality and not to mention product flaws and wear and tear and such when we could make something that works in general, even though it may be slightly wrong"

But then again, it is good question to ask why they didn't finish some things in the first place. I guess that's just a mystery to us forever.

i don't need them to make all variations of all tanks and equipments, just choose 1 ( normally the version produced in greatest numbers) and make that one, so we would have a basic panther G, and nobody would have complained.
if you made a map that required a panther A, you just used the G and thats it, story over. but at least it would have fitted in 80% of the possible panther map scenarios. it's even more weird if you know that TWI's vice president is a tank freak also!

 

[Yoshiro]

I could be wrong on this, so don't take this is gospel about why this is.

But I believe it was decided to try and make several of the tanks "up gunned" versions, or versions that got modified and recieved upgrades in the field or later on in the life span of the tank. And I know other tanks were built just for the certain maps they appeared in (those tanks were at those conflicts). Now I'm sure a few errors slipped past on certain tanks, but I believe every single tank in RO was built off several reference photo's of real tanks that had everything the tanks in RO have on them.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

But I believe it was decided to try and make several of the tanks "up gunned" versions, or versions that got modified and recieved upgrades in the field or later on in the life span of the tank.

funny enough it resulted in a late-war tank "downgunned" with old parts from 1942

upgrades on panthers were rare, as their life expectancy was of 2 months after leaving factory. and for the old buggy A and D models their life expectancy was not calculated in time, but in meters

 

[TT33]

Upgunned? I guess that explains the Panzer IV "F2" rather than the more common and sexy muzzle break early "G" or the Stug III f/8 but how about the Tiger I that was never up gunned its like an afrika campaigns (airfilters- only for afrika) model mixed with some late war (single light, cables, appears to have panther's engine) and early modifications ( cupola, pistol port, ect.)

I have yet to find a game that has any correct variant Tiger I.

don't need them to make all variations of all tanks and equipments, just choose 1 ( normally the version produced in greatest numbers) and make that one, so we would have a basic panther G, and nobody would have complained.

Yeah I agree with that.

a few tanks seem to be a mixed bag of different variants. Look at the p3, it has a 50mm cannon even on the early war maps-

Yeah and the late verison bolted on spaced armor on the front ( 50mm+20mm very formidable up to late 1943). The eariler ones should have the short 50mm L/42 (the long nose 50mm L/60 came in early 1942) or the 37mmL/46 which was still around most common short nose Pz III had 50mm of armor.