Who is right - Serbia or the inhabitants of Kosovo?
And who gave the UN and NATO the right to decide?
And who gave the UN and NATO the right to decide?
Kosovo
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Completely different situation there matey. You cant make any comparisons whatsoever!
Whats done is done & the entire globe supports an independent Kosovo!
Deal with it
Whats done is done & the entire globe supports an independent Kosovo!
Deal with it
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I'm not in favor the increased 'balkanization' of the Balkans, because I believe it will only cause more trouble in the long run, and they should learn to live alongside each other, but heck if they want it...
And you cant really blame them, considering all the sh*t the serbs did in Bosnia.
And you cant really blame them, considering all the sh*t the serbs did in Bosnia.
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thats not true
and about the question of who is wrong and who is right, there never is wrong or right, its always a matter of who gets what he wants and who doesn't
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Kosovo should be its own country. Serbia's only claim to it is a "historical" one--in that they won a battle in that region in the 1300s, and they only reclaimed it because of WWI. Then they treated the Kosavars as trash, and they have been on the giving end of oppression and genocide, so the Serbs don't get any benefits of any doubt in this case.
Plus, on a practical side, the people of Kosovo are never going to accept Serbian rule again, so Serbia's just going to have to deal with that fact (hopefully in a peaceful way).
Plus, on a practical side, the people of Kosovo are never going to accept Serbian rule again, so Serbia's just going to have to deal with that fact (hopefully in a peaceful way).
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Oh right, I suppose you mean the Russians? Well it is an independent state now. See an Ruskie armour rolling in?
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Russia, China, Spain, Cyprus, Greece, Slovakia and Romania
so your statement that the entire globe supports the independence is FALSE
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If you want to find out whose for or against it you cant go far wrong with the BBC news site. Bur I find it hard to believe that only Russia and Serbia have an objection to it. Any country with a region in dispute would have a reason to be not so keen on the idea of Kosovo's independence.
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What i know:
Serbia has allot of major historic events in kosovo.
The albaneze majority is only new.
Serbia has allot of major historic events in kosovo.
The albaneze majority is only new.
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Maybe if the serbs had played nice in the 90's they could have their cake and eat it too. Payback is a ***** when you try and do some ethnic cleansing.
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Both historical and nationalistic claims are IMHO equally wrong, morally speaking... Only practical matters should matter, like, does serbian rule stand in the way of the social and economical progress of Kosovo?
Though I have to admit that it sounds a lot like traditional "greek" nationalism... But there's much to grain by a graceful breakup in terms of future relations
Though I have to admit that it sounds a lot like traditional "greek" nationalism... But there's much to grain by a graceful breakup in terms of future relations
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Kosovo isn't a real state occording to the UN. Since the UN is basicly a unified world with the top countries leading the world (US, Russian, France, China, UK I think) and Russia and China are against the independence it isn't qualified as a country. However, since most of the countries just do whatever they want (most countries in the EU supports it) there is no real meaning of what's a country and what's not.
It's not a country according to the UN but it is according to most countries in the world, I think.
It's not a country according to the UN but it is according to most countries in the world, I think.
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![Dumba [cro]](/data/avatars/s/5/5293.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
Erm, no, they LOST a battle. As they tend to do. The Ottoman empire kicked their arse in and had them subjugated all the way to the 20th century.
Almost 2,000,000 ethnic Albanians (90-ish % of Kosovo population, 25-ish % of total Serbia population) were robbed of their rights, subjugated, murdered and eventually had genocide committed on them (again, as Serbs tend to do) in the late 90s (but **** hit the fan in the famous Milošević speech on Gazimestan field, or even earlier, when they took away Kosovo's status of an independent county, 'twas in '86 I believe).
In '99 Serbia, after a rather mild NATO bombardment (triggered by the ethnic cleansing, genocide and terror brought upon civilian population of Kosovo), signed a treaty withdrawing all of their army and police force from Kosovo, pretty much giving away all of their authority to KFOR and UN, and losing any and all factual jurisdiction over the province. Just the thing international law sees as the first step to creating a new sovereign region.
Not to mention decades of economical neglect, police & political repression, poverty and injustice. Those oppressed people have every right to try and pursuit their happiness on their own - they have a much better chance with losing Serbia from their shoulders, as we all in these parts did, over the course of the last decade or so.
This, you're spot on. 2,000,000 people, a quarter of the population in the state Serbs supposedly strived to keep whole, NOT being on voting lists, practically NOT being recognized as citizens. A quarter of the population has how many representatives in the parliament? Well somewhere in the range between 0 and 1. A whole decade went by after Milošević went down. NOTHING was done for those people. Nothing.
On the whole, debts are due to be collected. An era of insanity is hopefully coming to an end here, and there is no other way to do it - they need to lose the territories they oppressed, and they need to come to their general senses. The former is pretty much done, the latter..... I'm not being too optimistic.
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Most new sources that have been covering the Kosovo issue have said those states are against recognition of Kosovo. New Zealand is also against Kosovo recognition. But anyways, I support a Serbian Kosovo. The Albanians never gave the Serbs after Milosevic a chance. By that time, Kosovo was already placed under the UN and NATO. But I've spoken with many Albanians and Serbs and they both have equal hatred for each other regardless, so it's just a giant wheel. But I think it'd be better if Kosovo was placed under Belgrade because the government at the moment is very pro-Western (most of the youth dislike him for this) and President Tadic just won another term so he'll be there for another five years.
Yes, the Kosovo Albanians suffered from mistreatment under Tito (though he did in fact give them autonomy) and Milosevic, those eras are gone. Bigotry remains, but remember on both sides too. The KLA (which had ties to Al-Qaeda) killed Serbian policemen and several civilians during the early 90s to provoke a Serbian response. Ex-KLA leaders such as Hashim Thaci are Prime Minister now and other former KLA members hold top government positions.
It also doesn't make sense to have two Albanian states in Europe, right next to each other. Additionally, legally, under UN Resolution 1244 which states Serbia's sovereignty must be respected, an independent Kosovo is illegal by international law. But it seems that this "international law" is bypassed in favor of the Western nations.
In response to Britney Federline, as Dumba said, the Serbs lost the battle in 1389, but before that Kosovo was the center of the Serbian Empire headed by Emperor Dusan. The Ottomans then ruled until the 19th century when a Serbian uprising there forced the Turks to give Serbs independence. So I'd say for a long period of time Kosovo was neither controlled by Serbs or Albanians. The Albanians claim to Kosovo is that they are descendents of the Illyrians which inhabited the area before the Slavs migrated there. That claim is very hard to confirm.
Yes, the Kosovo Albanians suffered from mistreatment under Tito (though he did in fact give them autonomy) and Milosevic, those eras are gone. Bigotry remains, but remember on both sides too. The KLA (which had ties to Al-Qaeda) killed Serbian policemen and several civilians during the early 90s to provoke a Serbian response. Ex-KLA leaders such as Hashim Thaci are Prime Minister now and other former KLA members hold top government positions.
It also doesn't make sense to have two Albanian states in Europe, right next to each other. Additionally, legally, under UN Resolution 1244 which states Serbia's sovereignty must be respected, an independent Kosovo is illegal by international law. But it seems that this "international law" is bypassed in favor of the Western nations.
In response to Britney Federline, as Dumba said, the Serbs lost the battle in 1389, but before that Kosovo was the center of the Serbian Empire headed by Emperor Dusan. The Ottomans then ruled until the 19th century when a Serbian uprising there forced the Turks to give Serbs independence. So I'd say for a long period of time Kosovo was neither controlled by Serbs or Albanians. The Albanians claim to Kosovo is that they are descendents of the Illyrians which inhabited the area before the Slavs migrated there. That claim is very hard to confirm.
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I love it how almost everyone here think of serbs as a bloody killers. I'm sure albanians didn't do anything wrong - no ethnic cleansings, no genocide of civilians. I mean, common, TV didn't show us nothing bad done by albanians and TV can't lie!.. right?..
..In this area everyone has hands in blood, and I mean everyone - be it the serbs or albanians, or bosnians or any other post-Yugoslavia nation. But serbs were unlucky enough to be made to a bad guy by propaganda of NATO states.
Stating that "if they want their own country, they can have it" is also stupid. Basques (sp?) want independence from Spain, North Ireland wants independence from UK, Belgium has some serious problems in this area also, as I heard, quite a lot of people in Quebec would love to be independent from Canada, Abhazia and Osetija even fought a bloody wars against Georgia and are independent de-facto from '92. Can you see Condoleeza Rice telling that her country fully supports their will?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7252033.stm
*Patiently awaits for arabs in France, turks in Germany and Romanians in Italy to declare independence from these states. I mean, how many algerians were on the receiving end during the war? They have their rights to become free from the oppresors!...
Stupidity for the win..*
..In this area everyone has hands in blood, and I mean everyone - be it the serbs or albanians, or bosnians or any other post-Yugoslavia nation. But serbs were unlucky enough to be made to a bad guy by propaganda of NATO states.
Bad attitude to albanians after the WW2 will shine a new light if one will read a thing or two about what division Skadenberg with albanian soldiers did there to serbian civilians.
Stating that "if they want their own country, they can have it" is also stupid. Basques (sp?) want independence from Spain, North Ireland wants independence from UK, Belgium has some serious problems in this area also, as I heard, quite a lot of people in Quebec would love to be independent from Canada, Abhazia and Osetija even fought a bloody wars against Georgia and are independent de-facto from '92. Can you see Condoleeza Rice telling that her country fully supports their will?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7252033.stm
+ China. BTW, I love how Turkey is "for" independence - how many kurds want to live in Kurdistan, again?.. Why not give them this chance?
Do you know how many Russians live in Latvia? How many Russians live in Estonia? There is only 60% of Latvians in Latvia, only 63% (I think that's the right number) of Estonians in Estonia, the rest is made of Russians in majority. There are cities and whole areas with most of the population of Russians. Now should I tell you what issues are there with their rights? have anybody heard of a "non-citizen" passports? Russians can't express their will of leaving monument in the center of the city, I can't imagine them having independent country from Latvia and Estonia.. But I take it that all you Kosovo supporters will support them after such precedent.
*Patiently awaits for arabs in France, turks in Germany and Romanians in Italy to declare independence from these states. I mean, how many algerians were on the receiving end during the war? They have their rights to become free from the oppresors!...
Stupidity for the win..
*
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