Level Design search and destroy!!!

[SchutzeSepp]

... Objective/Mission-Based. This is a huge can of worms for mappers. Now that many of our vehicles can be objectives in themselves, mappers can mix cap zones with individual AT guns, half-tracks, Zis trucks, the KV2, etc. You can now have purely S&D maps with any combination of available resources. You can give a team a "Mission" to get vehicle 'A' to point 'X' to win...

AAHHHHH lets make S&D maps!!

seriously, S&D is what can transform any noob game into a tactical realism game. on COD2 i used to play S&D 24/7 on realism servers, thats where you get great gameplay and make friends. simply because it is slow paced and and tactics pay cash. i cant even wait what that will give on RO.
but i cant see many RO maps that are suited for S&D except danzig...

i was thinking of remaking some of the better and bigger cod S&D maps, like stalingrad railyard or moscow just to have something to get the S&D going on RO...

 

[Trendkill]

That's quite true, like with Roadblock if the objective is to defend/destroy the KV-2 you're have less people running around doing there own thing and more people actually working complete their objective I think.

Looking forward to playing PP by the way

 

[smokeythebear]

A Stalingrad breakthrough/relief map with Tigers vs. T34/76s would be excellent. I'm not exactly sure what is able to be done with the new game types and how well they would work in RO, I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[TT33]

A Stalingrad breakthrough/relief map with Tigers vs. T34/76s

Operation Wintergewitter?

 

[Slyk]

Limits are up to the imagination. I can think of a couple stock maps that would be good for S&D of one, two, or even three objectives. A few things to think about:
- the objectives/vehicles can ALSO turn your spawns on and off, just like regular objective managers. This means you can spread out the objectives and control your flow better, if you opt for multiple sets.
- better control for recreating scenarios more accurately...wanna have a "breakthrough" mission to relieve the trapped friendlies? Fine...slap down a volume to detect vehicle X reaching it, throw up a minefield to keep the defenders out of that 'occupied' objective zone. Now set up your paths to the objective. Give your attackers three routes to reach the objective zone. You can have bottle necks where the attacker paths merge and force them to break multiple rings of defense using spawn managers, etc. As one more example.
- want to play hide and seek for the nasty KV2? Turn him loose on the map and let those pesky Germans chase him around armed with only satchels. How well can you hide a 52 ton pink elephant and how long can you protect it??
- Want to play "rescue"? Force your way through the enemy defenses, cap the "rescue" objective, then fight your way back out to the start point.
- "Convoy"... can you get three of five or six 251s across the map while bands of roving partisans snipe at you all along the way?
- mix and match all sorts of ideas into one map!

Get your ideas together. This could be a new start of RO Team play.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

just to make sure, in SnD players will only spawn in once per round right?

 

[Bolt]

I think SnD here only means that the main nad only obejctive on the map can be any object (let's say, a ZiS-5), that can randomly spawn and move. It doesn't mean soldiers have only one life.
To make so, one have to give to one team, let's say, 20 reinforcements - like you did this on your BridgeCrossing map.

 

[Rak]

Is there a possibility that "a player" may be an objective? I don't know if it's possible now, but it may be interesting in the future

 

[Trendkill]

just to make sure, in SnD players will only spawn in once per round right?

I got the impression by search and destroy they meant the objective of the map is to destroy a vehicle(s), like what I'm assuming Roadblock will be.

 

[Steely.Glnt]

I got the impression by search and destroy they meant the objective of the map is to destroy a vehicle(s), like what I'm assuming Roadblock will be.

By S&D i think he means the COD gameplay mode where there are short rounds, everyone has one life, no respawns, and the winning team is the one with the last person alive? I think thats how it works anyway, and I dont think it would work very well on RO as it is basically glorified deathmatch with an awful lot of waiting around if your unlucky. I certainly wouldnt say it makes for a tactically realistic game; it does make you slow down and move carefully, but then hunkering down and not dying isnt the best way to assault an objective.

What would make RO more realistic is map design that allows you to properly use fire supremacy and manoeuvre to root out a dug in opponent. I think maps like kreigstadt are doing more to promote "realistic" play than a game mode like S&D would do.

Having said that it would be a nice addition to the game and could be fun.
What about a map where the axis have all tigers and panthers and 1 life each vs assaulting russians armed with lots of respawns and t34-76's. So you can't defeat them 1 to 1, but each defeated german tank is a major victory. The russians have to overwhelm them before the timer runs out.

 

[Trendkill]

What I mean is, SchutzeSepp was under the impression S&D for RO would be like in CoD, I was saying that from the sound of it S&D for RO would mean the destruction of vehicles and such to complete objectives.

 

[smokeythebear]

Is there a possibility that "a player" may be an objective? I don't know if it's possible now, but it may be interesting in the future

You could always make a class that is worth a lot of points. Then make very little game time and only 1-2 spawns per round and you would have an assassination game of sorts.

 

[Slyk]

So many questions...

- Currently not sure how a player could be the target, but I think it would be possible via coding up a special 'class'.
- S&D can be whatever the mapper wants. If they want a small one-spawn per player scenario, they can do that. Map size, scenario, respawns, time limit, number of targets, etc are all up to the designer.
- Some vehicles like the Zis truck, SdKfz 251, and KV2 can be mobile S&D targets. The AT guns can not move, but can be randomly spawned around the map to keep variety.
- Roadblock features a single KV2 which has a special factory that has a disabled engine. The tank can't move but the hull MG and turret function. Russian tankers have about two minutes to spawn and occupy the tank. After that, if they leave the vehicle and die like fools, they respawn a full 1,000 meters away. Consider it punishment for leaving their station. It is up to the infantry to cover the tank and keep it alive. The Germans have one engineer who can spawn at one of two locations, either flank, and come after the KV2. A PzIII is included for the Germans to use as infantry support/suppression...don't even think of taking on the KV2.

This is not a new "Game Type" in the sense many think of if looking back at CoD. This is more of "potential" game types or what we prefer to call scenarios or mission-type play. It will allow the mapper to create much more dynamic situations.

 

[Bennanteno]

Will all the new content (trucks, guns, tanks, etc...) be usable in stock cap based maps or will it only for the new SnD/Breakthrough/KV Hunt maps ?

Idea For A Map: A convoy of ZiS trucks must make it to the exit. The trucks would start in the Russian spawn, and a certain number of trucks, say 3, would have to make it through to an exit area. The Russians could have anything from tanks to transports to clowncars to only infantry to escort the trucks, wheras the Krauts might have AT guns, tanks, AT weapons, or just infantry and sappers.

Maybee the Russians have only a few trucks, maybee an infinite supply. Maybee they could even "win" more by capping objectives. Perhaps certain objectives can only be capped by bringing vehicles through. Maybee even a line of vehicle cappable objectives would keep vehicles on the convoy route. Is this arcadish, or does it encourage tactical play? Thats the mapper's choice, as is all this.

Wow, in describing a map I've actualy described several! This is quite the epiphany! (Anyone who thinks this is some kind of shameless plug or plant, its not. I just learned about this feature today!)

 

[SchutzeSepp]

woosh, for a second i feared the 1 spawn per player per round was not possible.
S&D in itself is not verry "RO" or even realistic, it is the gameplay it gives that is realistic. and without the 1 spawn per round, the S&D in RO would look like a satchel spamming deathmatch.
and yes i was thinking of a COD S&D type of thing, with short 9 minute rounds, smaller maps and 1 spawn per round.
for those who have never played this it might look stupid or boring, but it was extremely intense. even if you died in the first minute and had to wait 8 minutes if the objective was not destroyed, it never felt boring.
and while playing you know the dead guys are spectating you and commenting you, so if you played good, it was normal that some of the spectators congratulated you after the round.
in that type of S&D match staying alive is more important then anything else

 

[Luther]

That roadblock idea is similar to the one described in [SIZE=-1]General Erhard Raus book. Anyway got so many ideas buzzing around in my head I can't wait to start getting into the SDK again.
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[Trendkill]

That roadblock idea is similar to the one described in [SIZE=-1]General Erhard Raus book. Anyway got so many ideas buzzing around in my head I can't wait to start getting into the SDK again.
[/SIZE]

The map's based on the 6th Panzer Division's encounter with a KV-2 which even when immobilized held them off for the best part of 2 days.

 

[Luther]

Awesome, the second I heard of the new map type I instantly thought of the KV on the road.

 

[Slyk]

...and thus the scenario was created. I love that story. I think I pasted the entire extract of it here somewhere...can't recall.

As for Bennantano: Yes, that could be one big scenario or a couple smaller ones. The fact is, you could have the Zis truck(s) be the objective(s) but the Russians have to destroy some AT guns along way, capture a location or two, etc. It's just another dynamic aspect for the game play.

If guys want to make one-spawn and done maps, they can. I wouldn't, but that isn't to say it is not possible. The UT engine is very flexible with time limits, spawn limits, and classes. You can have one engineer, two, three, etc. or none and put satchels laying all over. The possibilities are very great.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

i couldnt leave it, this is what i have after mapping a few hours and watching some youtube vid's to refresh my mind:






i simply want to see if the pure S&D gametype works on RO, that way we can keep the game fresh and maybe bring in some more players.
everybody likes to have a short and intense battle from time to time, thats probably what explains the danzig 24/7 thing.

the only problem i can see is nadespam, you need a server that is adminned and where nadespam gets you kicked. or else give only nades to the assault classes.
other possible problem is the satchels, people can throw them at the objective from far away by rushing it. a system where you need to plant a bomb, and where you can disable it would be ideal.