DP28 Model

[pigskinfootwear]

I just recently picked up a copy of RO, and I must say I'm impressed; it's one of the best, most realistic games I've played, and I'm not the type who considers CoD in that category. Bravo.

I only encountered one problem: the DP28 model is utterly worthless. It's even missing a few mechanical features of the original - such as a random (and imagined) charging handle on the left side of the receiver. Also, were the real weapon fired from the hip in the fashion shown in game, the op rod would most certainly break fingers...it ejects from the bottom I don't understand how on earth the spent casings are flying vertically upwards during firing. As far as a lack of barrel change, the real deal does have this ability - I would add, though, that Red Army Men for some reason or other didn't like to carry extra barrels. How do I know these things? I have one of the new semi-automatic DP28s from MGS.

But, it's also the only problem I've seen in game. Would anyone be interested in some very detailed photos for future modeling purposes? I'd be more than willing to acquaint someone inside and out with the DP's workings.

 

[Rak]

I've heard that even it has barrel change ability, it takes far too much time to be practical. That's why it isn't included to not lose time and money with the animations. I can't comment for the rest though.

 

[TT33]

bottom line all Mgs over-heated whilst in use the Mg-34 and 42 were the only few to really address the issue by making barrel-change easy.

 

[odin1899]

Perhaps an idiotic idea, but wouldn't emptying your canteen or even weeing over the hot bits works just as well as changing the barrel?

 

[RedGuardist]

I've heard that even it has barrel change ability, it takes far too much time to be practical. That's why it isn't included to not lose time and money with the animations. I can't comment for the rest though.

That

 

[LogisticEarth]

@odin 1899: Both were used IRL as ways to cool the barrel in critical situations, when there were no options. But they are not very practical in the long run. Water runs out from canteen and blatter sooner or later...

You can also risk warping or cracking the barrel, so it's not always a great idea.

As for the lack of a barrel change, the DP takes a good deal longer to overheat than the German machine guns, so practically, it makes up for it.

Also, why do people always do this stealth posting in black text?

 

[Oldih]

I believe one reason why spare barrels were not that common in the Red Army (atleast in combat) might be the following thing. Before I say it, I am not 100% sure nor claim this to be 100% correct, since I have not really done any research about this that much.

Training level.

It is known fact that Soviet army had pretty much of conscripts who were pretty much given the very minimal training reguired. And IIRC in late '41 almost everyone who wanted to go to the front were accepted in service, no matter if they would have some conditions or such that would make them not-suitable for frontline service. Situation was that bad really, and it could be said that some people got their "training" by combat experience.

Second of that, related with the training the Soviets really did not have that much tactical training around. And alternatively role of the machinegun could have something go to do with this.

Since it could be said (this is very simplified idea so bear with it) that while every army had rifle as the squad's backbone, germans had a machinegun. Almost every german squad idea rolled around the machinegun. It was the main killing machine and fire hoser. Riflemen's job were to protect the MG. And generally speaking german military training pressed for opporturnistic actions, and practically if an infantry unit had any kind of tactical training they could be combat affective even if the squad itself would be slightly disorganized or scattered. This was diffrent in late war though, due it was believed that lack of training was surpassed by extra firepower.

This is one reason why germans pretty much relied on bolt-action rifles. They were cheaper than semi-auto rifles, had quantity advatange from 1930s and such already and the main battle tactics, squad systems or killings relied on MG34\42. MG did the damage, riflemen protected MG from recheiving the damage.

So Soviets had diffrent organisation and squad philosophies, and diffrent role with the MG itself. E.G. with americans, MG was an support weapon and not the main killing machine as with the germans.


And as with the barrel change, I believe it is just some game balance. MG42 barrel is already bacon-ready after few seconds of fire ingame (well, not exactly but quite closely), while with DP you can shell out couple of discs before you even notice the barrel is smoking.

 

[Recce]

bottom line all Mgs over-heated whilst in use the Mg-34 and 42 were the only few to really address the issue by making barrel-change easy.

I think changing the barrel on a Bren beats the MG34 hands down.
You just have to be a little bit careful getting the gas regulator slotted in correctly.

 

[D3terioNation]

Also MG34 and MG42 both eject empty cartridge cases from under the gun IRL

Err how does it do this when its belt/drum fed from the side?

 

[Recce]

Also MG34 and MG42 both eject empty cartridge cases from under the gun IRL.

Err how does it do this when its belt/drum fed from the side?

I've only had the one look at the feed mechanism of these MG, and I can't remmeber the details of the action.
The MG34 and MG42 didn't use a disintegrating belt, but did "extract" the rounds from the belt. The cases have to go somewhere, and there won't be any space to get them out of the side, the belt is in the way. So they get ejected out of the bottom.
I seem to remember that when the rounds are extracted from the belt, they get pushed down out of the belt, into the chamber. I can't remember the vertical distance between the belt and chamber.

The Bren also ejects from the bottom. And I imagine that the DP-28 will do as well, as it's "box-fed" from the top.

 

[D3terioNation]

Ok will check out some vids on Youtube. I know the dp28 should eject from bottom but it never really bothered me tbh!

Probably because I was too busy killing with it to take notice!

EDIT

Just got a vid off YT and it definitly looks like it ejects from the bottom!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wipVRs7r5Wk

Again not really a massive issue to be fair!

 

[TT33]

That

 

[KrazyKraut]

MG42 feeds from the left, ejects shells under the gun and ejects the belt to the right. It helps not giving away the gunner's position (remember the shells are ejecting at 1200+ rpm) and doesn't injure anyone possibly lying to your right.

 

[Grobut]

The MG34 and 42 are also top-fed actually, the belt does enter the gun from the side, but once inside the belt is fed down into the mechanism, hence the Bren, DP-28 and MG-34/42 work in a similar fashion, they are all top-fed MG's.

As for the DP-28, it was apparently modelled after a Replica gun, im told the textures on it even has "Replica" stamped on there in Russian, so its not suppricing that there may be some things wrong with it, but this late in the game, it is unlikely to be changed..

 

[Oldih]

Not to mention that while it maybe wrong, incorrect or farby, I really would like to ask one question:

Would you refuse to play the game because of mistake X or do you really pay that much attension in specific stuff when you are supposed to shoot with that thing towards the enemies?

I know, this sounds ironic comment from a guy who certainly has done some very annoying authencity nazi-officer job (aka nitpicking something that 95% people would not notice), but even though I still see very farby things on german and even soviet uniforms or gear or the way they are worn or some other farby stuff (E.G. German Zeltbahn texture is ****ed up compared to an original or even well-made repro, and the german 1st person sleeve models and textures barely look the way they should), I still have not declared RO to be the biggest pieces of **** in the universe or stopped playing it.

Not to mention E.G. the german jackboots do make quite incorrect sound on some surfaces, but who cares really? I have more of these to supply in case if you want to be bored.

While historically and authencity wise details would never really hurt, problem is where to draw the line ingame. Original "it was there" DP27 might be pain in the *** to get hands on. Like some original tunics or gear can be insanely expensive (an original FJ 2nd pattern Knockensacke can be easily 20.000 dollars and higher, and some original WSS camouflage smocks also vary between 5000 - 15.000 dollars easily) also, it is very obvious why people (in this case the devs) have either used replicas or some repro stuff or some references to model, texture and such. Unless if you have some private funding that can allow you to purchase all original stuff - that's another story.

While E.G. some varying uniforms might not be _that_ hard to implement (I have no idea, so it may be either easy or insanely hard. I really don't know), I really would like to ask a question that who would notice some uniform models ingame that much? RO overall impression still works quite well, even though there are more or less farby things. You could make a book or two about all authencity wise or historical wise mistakes about RO, but the overall impression still works visually.

So yes, while it is wrong to have E.G. DP modelled incorrectly, it does not break the game itself. Nor gameplay. Authencity might diffrent animal, but I find it already quite funny to nitpick every small stuff... in a PC game.

If someone has time to fix the DP model, I don't mind. I guess it might be something easy to do... or not. Who knows.

 

[ripa]

I only encountered one problem: the DP28 model is utterly worthless. It's even missing a few mechanical features of the original - such as a random (and imagined) charging handle on the left side of the receiver.

I'm sorry about the model. When I made it back in 2002 or so there weren't any good photos of the weapon on the web or in the books at the local libraries (so I had to invent the charging handle). I updated the model as soon as I got better pics, but I guess it didn't make it ingame. On the old model the bipod and the rear sights are also wrong.

I'm surprised it took this long for anyone to post a thread about it :^)

 

[Oldih]

I'm surprised it took this long for anyone to post a thread about it :^)

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