Insurgency Mod ... EPIC THREAD OF DOOM

[Shadrach]

The changelog out now doesn't say anything about improvements to the animations, which is a letdown. I was hoping they would fix the look of soldiers 'floating' across the ground. It just ruins immersion for me, it looks so stupid.

RO has really good (IMO) player animations so maybe I'm spoiled

But will definitely try it out again with this release, TK+spawn protection and fixed viewheight will help a lot.

 

[Grobut]

What exactly is causing the huge bellyache for realism lovers? The hud? Icons for the objectives?

Its a number of things really, the small leniar choke point maps beeing a big factor, as they pretty much force the gameplay to work like a round of CS every time, run here, toss a nade there, camp here and shoot at that corner, etc etc, good maps are extremely important for a realism game, much more so than many people probably realize, and Ins just doesen't have the kind of maps needed.
Alot of people like thease kinds of maps though, which is why people make them, but not the realism crowd, you will also find alot of people here that dont like RO-Danzig for thease reasons.

Its also the huge hitboxes and lag compensation, its just not working well, you really do need per-pixel hit detection for realism, as it stands, its very hard to tell when you are safe, and shooting people is way too easy, all in all, it kinda feels more like a game of UT Instagib than a tactical shooter, a problem that is again compounded by map design.

The weapons also, its hard to put your finger on exactly whats wrong, but they just dont feel right somehow.. its like they have no mass to them, and they feel very "point and click", some of the right mechanics are there, but somehow, they just dont manage to deliver that feeling of a real gun.
Supricingly, RO actually does that better, despite having some glaring realism problems like the insane recoil.
Also, it doesen't help that Ins dropped the ball on the one gun i actually wanted to play with, the AKM, they cocked it up and gave us an AK-47 instead, big letdown, having realistic loadouts is important, and giving us the wrong main weapon for one of the teams is a big oversight there.

But by and large, the maps are a big part of this, but the real problem is one of feel, it doesen't feel right, and its a bit hard to explain how or why, it actually has many of the mechanics we want, but they are not implimented right, and feel strangely artificial.

Except that noone ever sold you anything. And now, months after the man gave you that free orange, it's time to get over it.

Good try, but nope.

To make the analogy right: Its like someone telling you he will give you bitter lemons, then for years he's telling you how awesome thease bitter lemons are, man you should look forward to thease bitter lemons! best.bitter.lemons.ever!, thease bitter lemons are the spiritual successor to thouse other bitter lemons that where awesome, dude, thease bitter lemons will rock your world!

And then, years later, he gives you a fricken orange.. and continues to proclaim loudly that it is infact a bitter lemon despite the obvious handicap of it beeing an orange.

At that point, it doesen't really matter that you got the orange for free, you feel pretty cheated and very much lied to, making you angry about the whole affair, which we will now call Orangegate.

You're not offering constructive criticism but redicule and disrespect. You can easily state your low opinion with a single click in the poll. So what's the point in whining and complaining fo several pages about a game you don't like and don't play besides annoying others who actually do like the game?

Because people continue to ask us to? every time this one seems to be put to rest, someone comes along and wants to know "why dont you like it?", and thats fine because thats just an exchange of opinions, but much worse, then people get defensive about it and start stirring the pot, usually using the kinds of not so pleasent words about peoples persons or this community as a whole that warrents that they must now reply to defend themselves..
Infact, you sir, are often guildty of stirring that pot, which makes it a bit hypocritical that you complain about it after the fact (see? now you have to reply to that to defend youself, dont you?).

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

You're not offering constructive criticism but redicule and disrespect.

Now that's funny. I remember very vividly that any kind of criticism, even the constructive one, was flamed and locked by both the fanboys and the devs in their forums...

 

[KrazyKraut]

I have never visited their forums. May very well be, that it's full of idiots. I only see that certain comments in this thread here make this community look like a bunch of arrogant, elitist snobs. Not the community we had in mod days.

@Grobut:
1. It's a freaking game, not a family member. If you put so much heartblood into anticipating a game, well, that's kinda stupid on your side. And predicting a defense after attacking someone personally isn't exactly hard, but afterall getting me to defend was your whole point eh?

2. So they put in the wrong AK... Who says there's never going to be an AKM in INS? Afterall it took the RO devs several releases to finally put in the MG34 and another to put in the MG42 - afterall Germany's main infantry weapons throughout the whole WW2. Large hitboxes? Remember that ROs hitboxes were UT2003-scale when the game first came out. Chokepoint maps? How about that factory map in the mod with the valley of nades? Or misaligned iron sights (Vietcong-style)? RO had so many small and big flaws when it came out.

People seem to forget it took the game a long way to make it where it is now. And INS is so far only in first beta state. A beta that is definetly more polished and more complete than RO's first versions. It's never going to be the summit of realism gaming (RO isn't either), but it still has potential to be a very good, semi-realistic, urban combat shooter. The devs are obviously listening and are fixing the issues with a good sense for priority.

Comparing INS-mod to RO-retail is simply unfair. Besides that there are still some big flaws in retail RO that could make people furious like the mentioned unrealistic recoil or the STILL not fixed tank combat. But these seem to be overlooked because there's more sympathy for the devs.

 

[Nimsky]

Changelog

http://forums.insmod.net/index.php?showtopic=13426&st=0

 

[KrazyKraut]

Adding new elements to aid navigation sounds good. However the maps might need more tweaks imo. We'll see.

I like the addition of the SKS, one of my fav weapons (don't know why really lol).

What the hell is POA by the way?

 

[Tomcat_ha]

The sks used to be the best weapon ingame during my testing period. Really it owns.

 

[Rak]

What the hell is POA by the way?

Point of aim.

 

[Xendance]

Why on earth did they make it so that the objective map also shows your teammates?

 

[KrazyKraut]

I'm all for showing teammates on overhead maps.

What's POI then? If it's point of impact, then shouldn't POI and POA be the same in a game using hitscan weapons?

 

[Xendance]

Ok so Insurgency stopped trying to be realistic or do soldiers have GPS tracking devices in real life?

 

[Nimsky]

Why on earth did they make it so that the objective map also shows your teammates?

Maybe they finally realized that true realism is not possible on the Source engine, so they strayed away from that? A long time ago I suggested that they should focus more on teamwork and tactics instead of realism, and it looks like they agreed. Identity crisis

I'm all for showing teammates on overhead maps.

What's POI then? If it's point of impact, then shouldn't POI and POA be the same in a game using hitscan weapons?

I guess it has something to do with the incorrect viewheight bug. You know, the one that makes the bullet hit the sandbag while you're clearly shooting over it. They fixed it I think, hopefully they also fixed the "helmets that shoot bullets" bug.

 

[KrazyKraut]

Both. Well not all soldiers have, but an increasing number. I remember many players were upset when RO introduced the overhead map with an icon representing the player, but now everyone's gotten used to that too. Considering most soldiers didn't even have map or compass in WW2 the stretch from reality INS is making there isn't that much bigger and I can see this improving teamplay a lot.

 

[Grobut]

I have never visited their forums. May very well be, that it's full of idiots. I only see that certain comments in this thread here make this community look like a bunch of arrogant, elitist snobs. Not the community we had in mod days.

Same old broken record eh? you spend alot of time attacking everyone on this forum with blanket statements like that, ever considdered that this may infact be the reason people reply to you in a hostile manner? and that you are not exactly helping this community with such an attitude?

@Grobut:
1. It's a freaking game, not a family member. If you put so much heartblood into anticipating a game, well, that's kinda stupid on your side. And predicting a defense after attacking someone personally isn't exactly hard, but afterall getting me to defend was your whole point eh?

Ahh yes, the good old "lulz, you dont have a life" attack, how classy..

I followed it on and off since it was first announced, but i didn't really start following it clously till they started with the whole "Ins is the spiritual successor to Infiltration" gambit, Inf beeing one of my all time favorite mods ever, that made me look forward to it, you better belive it.

And no, its not hard to predict that a defense will usually follow and attack, which beckons the question: why do you continue to cry fowl when people reply to your blanket attacks? is it that you enjoy playing the victim? no really, i am genuinly interested.

2. So they put in the wrong AK... Who says there's never going to be an AKM in INS? Afterall it took the RO devs several releases to finally put in the MG34 and another to put in the MG42 - afterall Germany's main infantry weapons throughout the whole WW2. Large hitboxes? Remember that ROs hitboxes were UT2003-scale when the game first came out. Chokepoint maps? How about that factory map in the mod with the valley of nades? Or misaligned iron sights (Vietcong-style)? RO had so many small and big flaws when it came out.

The AK-47 should never have been included in the first place, i have never seen a 47 in Iraq, there's tons and tons of photage and vids coming out of there, including ones of the weapon stockpiles they have captured, but i have never seen a 47 in the bunch, they are all AKM or variants thereof, if there even are any 47's to be found there, they are incredibly rare, a drop of 47 in an AKM ocean!

No, Ins clearly has the 47 because the Dev's have not bothered to research this properly, if they had, there's no way they could justify putting in a 47 before the AKM, hell i wouldent put a 47 in at all, there's no evidence of it beeing there!

People seem to forget it took the game a long way to make it where it is now. And INS is so far only in first beta state. A beta that is definetly more polished and more complete than RO's first versions. It's never going to be the summit of realism gaming (RO isn't either), but it still has potential to be a very good, semi-realistic, urban combat shooter. The devs are obviously listening and are fixing the issues with a good sense for priority.

Comparing INS-mod to RO-retail is simply unfair. Besides that there are still some big flaws in retail RO that could make people furious like the mentioned unrealistic recoil or the STILL not fixed tank combat. But these seem to be overlooked because there's more sympathy for the devs.

Again, need i remind you that we where told that the reason Ins was taking so long, was because they wanted to release something that did not feel like a first beta, but an allmost finished mod? atleast of Beta 3 or 4 Quality? thats exactly what they said, and they certainly took their sweet time releasing it, so how exactly is it "unfair" of us to expect something better than a buggy first beta? we where told we where getting something much more polished than that, and we waited a very long time for it too.

We are just holding them to their word, its not our problem they lied about it.

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

Both. Well not all soldiers have, but an increasing number. I remember many players were upset when RO introduced the overhead map with an icon representing the player, but now everyone's gotten used to that too. Considering most soldiers didn't even have map or compass in WW2 the stretch from reality INS is making there isn't that much bigger and I can see this improving teamplay a lot.

I still think that it was a bad idea for RO to add the overhead GPS-map, and various other arcardey infos that nowadays clutter the scene...

 

[spraduke]

the only time the map in Ro is useful is for map orientation on a custom map etc. Though a soldier wouldn't necessarily had a map and compass i am fairly sure he would have known at least the rough layout and which objective he had been assigned. However the flashy capping icon is indeed pure arcade.

 

[Rak]

And the distracting "OMG CAPZOR'D"," MAP UPDATEZ FFS" warnings.

 

[KrazyKraut]

Same old broken record eh? you spend alot of time attacking everyone on this forum with blanket statements like that, ever considdered that this may infact be the reason people reply to you in a hostile manner? and that you are not exactly helping this community with such an attitude?

Yeah, because I'm disappointed by members who talk down every game that doesn't follow the principles of RO or ArmA. This used to be a pretty open-minded and reasonable community, now, when it's not RO, it's flame war.

Ahh yes, the good old "lulz, you dont have a life" attack, how classy..
I followed it on and off since it was first announced, but i didn't really start following it clously till they started with the whole "Ins is the spiritual successor to Infiltration" gambit, Inf beeing one of my all time favorite mods ever, that made me look forward to it, you better belive it.
Again: If you get so excited by a few speeches and some weapon renders, that is your fault. Which mods were NOT later watered down to a more usual level (if they weren't scrapped altogether)? More than were not, even RO to some extent. If developer fluctuation is high you can bet, design principles are going to change. And in this particular case that is even reasonable as the engine seems pretty incompatible with what had originally been envisioned. You can never know what direction a mod is truely taking before you've actually played any content.

And no, its not hard to predict that a defense will usually follow and attack, which beckons the question: why do you continue to cry fowl when people reply to your blanket attacks? is it that you enjoy playing the victim? no really, i am genuinly interested.

I'm not going down there with you.

The AK-47 should never have been included in the first place, i have never seen a 47 in Iraq,
there's tons and tons of photage and vids coming out of there, including ones of the weapon stockpiles they have captured, but i have never seen a 47 in the bunch, they are all AKM or variants thereof, if there even are any 47's to be found there, they are incredibly rare, a drop of 47 in an AKM ocean!
No, Ins clearly has the 47 because the Dev's have not bothered to research this properly, if they had, there's no way they could justify putting in a 47 before the AKM, hell i wouldent put a 47 in at all, there's no evidence of it beeing there!

Since, afaik, they have members or at least advisors that were actually there down doing the real stuff I'd be careful with such statements. They have dug up MP44s and SVT-40s down there, very well possible that a few original AK-47s are down there. This is such a minor thing anyway. And again: The complete lack of MGs wasn't a blocking issue for RO why should the wrong AK be one for INS? Why two different standards? If anything the lack of MGs was far more critical, realism-wise.
Same can be said about the MP41, btw. Same old double standards. RO can have a completely rare weapon in it before implementing a much more important one and INS can't.

Again, need i remind you that we where told that the reason Ins was taking so long, was because they wanted to release something that did not feel like a first beta, but an allmost finished mod? atleast of Beta 3 or 4 Quality? thats exactly what they said, and they certainly took their sweet time releasing it, so how exactly is it "unfair" of us to expect something better than a buggy first beta? we where told we where getting something much more polished than that, and we waited a very long time for it too.
We are just holding them to their word, its not our problem they lied about it.

And it did have more content and was more polished than a typical first release. Far from retail quality, but if they keep close to their change log, they are improving at a good pace. You keep holding your grudge months after the initial disappointment and that is pretty childish. Take a deep breath and repeat "INS is just a semi-realism mod for HL2" three times and you maybe lose your grimy attitude towards the game and its developers.

 

[REZ]

Off-topic here, sorry guys.. but I concur with this -

the flashy capping icon is indeed pure arcade.

...it's one of the absolute worst ideas to ever be added to RO.

 

[Oleg]

How would you capping-icon haters then solve the issue of capping ie informing the player about cap status?

I think RO UI is fine. Then again, I never thought RO is incredibly realistic or that it should be incredibly realistic. I just happen to like most design decisions about RO.