Fixing Prone Movement

[LogisticEarth]

One thing that's always bothered me is how you're able to spin around like a top when you're prone while ironsighted. I don't know how many times I've sprinted overtop of some enemy lying prone in a doorway only to be shot in the back half a second later as he somehow magically spun around on the ground while keeping both he hands steadily on his weapon.

Possible solutions to fix this?

1.) Make any lateral movement outside of a wedge X degress wide slow down drastically. That is you could be looking in one direction, and as long as you were still looking in that general direction down your iron sighs, you'd move as normal. However, try and aim 90 degrees to the side, or spin around completely, and you'll find it takes a long time.

2.) Sticking with the wedge idea, make any movement outside of the wedge put your hands into the "crawling forward mode". That is, you can't shoot your weapon untill you stop moving for a moment.

3.) Have to deploy your weapon whe prone like an MG, meaning if you want to shoot in IS when prone you need to be set up, and have limited range of motion. Personally, I'd prefer something more like 1&2 as they're more organic, but this might be easier to code.

Thoughts?

 

[murderous_eagle]

Well it's a relic of UT (which is the base game the mod came from, and is the engine the game uses) in which your turn speed is only limited by how fast you can turn your mouse. There was a lot of modification done to the engine to even allow people to be prone, and still had a lot of issues (see: prone bug in 3.0).

 

[RedRaccoon]

Thanks for that note murderous_eagle. By the looks of things then, there is no apparent way of making this work. It's kind of unfortunate, because this is one of those little things that always seems to be a nuisance in the back of my mind.

But if you ask me, point 3 might just work. This is similar to the way that you have limited ability to turn when deployed with a machinegun. So when in ironsights you can only turn a certain amount. Although this doesn't solve the fact that people can turn in a flash when their gun is down...

 

[TT33]

.) Make any lateral movement outside of a wedge X degress wide slow down drastically. That is you could be looking in one direction, and as long as you were still looking in that general direction down your iron sighs, you'd move as normal. However, try and aim 90 degrees to the side, or spin around completely, and you'll find it takes a long time.

2.) Sticking with the wedge idea, make any movement outside of the wedge put your hands into the "crawling forward mode". That is, you can't shoot your weapon untill you stop moving for a moment.

3.) Have to deploy your weapon whe prone like an MG, meaning if you want to shoot in IS when prone you need to be set up, and have limited range of motion. Personally, I'd prefer something more like 1&2 as they're more organic, but this might be easier to code.

Im in total agreement m8, prone turing should be like a wedge or like the limited travse of the Stug III after that you'd have to crawl in order to turn some more. Heck even non-prone turing should be signifcantly slowed its much too quick slight mouse twitch and you do a 360 on screen- with all the gear on your back and well the fact that people in war were.....well people and not highly agile "spidermen" insta-turing would certainly be out of reach for even the fitest of them. Try it! Try to quickly do a 360 without moving outside the area you are in with out sucuming to some kind of clumsy ballarina stance or falling on the floor-

 

[LogisticEarth]

But if you ask me, point 3 might just work. This is similar to the way that you have limited ability to turn when deployed with a machinegun. So when in ironsights you can only turn a certain amount. Although this doesn't solve the fact that people can turn in a flash when their gun is down...

Perhaps you'd have to deploy to even fire at all? Of course the "deploy" time for normal infanty weapons would be just like the normal time for IS or bringing up your weapon from crawl mode? Firing and shouldering from a prone position, while more stable than a crouching or standing stance, also takes longger to set up and limits your movement.

 

[Solo4114]

Minor points here:


A) I agree that prone speed turning adjustments would be great, but it may be an engine limitation.

B) Standing turning speed is fine as it is. First, we aren't actually carrying tons of crap on our backs. Take a look at the avatars some time. The Russians aren't wearing anything other than a jacket and belt, usually, and even the Germans aren't wearing anything other than a harness. Second, in real life, you can (1) turn your head without turning your body, and (2) move your arms to the side without turning your body. There's a lot of limitations of the game engine in terms of movement (not to mention basic limitations of all FPS gaming due to limited input options), but in order to make people as roughly combat effective as they'd otherwise be in real life, I think we let the game "cheat" a little and have turning speed be what it is.

 

[D3terioNation]

Think about this right.

IRL if an enemy approached from the rear, you could still easily dispatch them by getting onto your shoulder or fully on your back & firing your weapon with relative ease.

Now asking to add extra animations to be able to do this (only now can we really do this in ANY game, and thats MGS4!) is completely out of the question.

So really the next best thing is being able to swivel round, which looks ridiculous I know, but its the only way!

Sadly its yet another engine limitation!

EDIT

Solo probably explained it better

 

[LogisticEarth]

Think about this right.

IRL if an enemy approached from the rear, you could still easily dispatch them by getting onto your shoulder or fully on your back & firing your weapon with relative ease.

I'd like to see you do this while swinging around a 5-10 lb. weapon, immediately steadying the gun, and lining up the iron sites on the target. It takes some time, and certainly nothing like the auto-swivel we have now.

EDIT: To clarify, I've got no problem with the standing turning rates, merely the ones in prone position.

 

[D3terioNation]

Adrenaline does some crazy **** sometimes you know

 

[Aeneas2020]

I'd like to see you do this while swinging around a 5-10 lb. weapon, immediately steadying the gun, and lining up the iron sites on the target. It takes some time, and certainly nothing like the auto-swivel we have now.

EDIT: To clarify, I've got no problem with the standing turning rates, merely the ones in prone position.

i dont think he was suggesting you iron sight the weapon, shooting in tight or urban areas (FIBUA etc for brits with military experience) is all about reflex, muscle memory and knowing where your weapon will fire without looking down the site. I know that the US army and Police forces around the world suggest that particularly with pistols this is an effective way to fight in a tight space. Even getting the 1st shot off irl is gunna make the guy think, even if its not 100% accurate do the maths, in a corridor 5 feet wide for example, a target 2.5 feet wide, if you know your weapon the chances of scoring a hit are relatively high. This seems like a flame but it really isnt i just cant imagine going for a reflex shot in RO and then going to iron sights it would just take too much time like in real life. Accuracy is the most important tool of anyone who is shooting but accuracy isn't that helpful if you never get to make the shot.

back on topic i have to agree the prone swivel is kinda silly but as many people have said its a necessary evil in the game due to engine limitations.

 

[LogisticEarth]

i dont think he was suggesting you iron sight the weapon, shooting in tight or urban areas (FIBUA etc for brits with military experience) is all about reflex, muscle memory and knowing where your weapon will fire without looking down the site.

That's all well and good, but it's entirely possible to swing around all over the place while remaining sighted in game.

 

[the_TeuTon]

The whole prone spinning thing effects attackers in another way. There have been many times when I've tried bayoneting a guy who is prone, but I get thrown off because he keeps spinning around and around. It literally moves my body and I can't stab him..........and then he guns me down

I know this has something to do with the engine, and probably isn't fixable.....but I just thought I would suggest it.

And btw, sorry about the threads I made that where essentially repeats. I can see where they were locked lol. I don't have time to look at the many pages if threads and see what ones have been posted already......

 

[RedRaccoon]

the TeuTon's point about being "thrown off" seems to happen to me all the time when I try and bayonet someone.

And I was thinking; even when you aren't in ironsights when prone, the gun is still shouldered somewhat, which would limit your ability to turn. It's not as if you can fire from the hip when in prone and swivel on your feet.

 

[Solo4114]

Oh you mean Super Mario Syndrome? Yeah, that's a pain in the *** but I think it's a holdover from the engine. In UT and UT2003/4 you were able to bounce off of other players by jumping on them a la Super Mario Brothers. They just never got rid of it and I don't think the TWI devs even CAN get rid of it. It really makes life hell when two teammates get the BRILLIANT idea to go prone in front of a doorway, effectively blocking it off completely.

 

[Aeneas2020]

The whole prone spinning thing effects attackers in another way. There have been many times when I've tried bayoneting a guy who is prone, but I get thrown off because he keeps spinning around and around. It literally moves my body and I can't stab him..........and then he guns me down

I know this has something to do with the engine, and probably isn't fixable.....but I just thought I would suggest it.

And btw, sorry about the threads I made that where essentially repeats. I can see where they were locked lol. I don't have time to look at the many pages if threads and see what ones have been posted already......

use the search function

 

[Reddog]

You guys have obviously never played Ravenshield, it uses the same engine as RO and has all the prone limitations you are describing.

 

[Reise]

Yeah, the Raven Shield system is amazing in that sense.