The Pirate Bay files charges against media companies

[Quietus]

Yes it is pretty entertaining... I'll make things even more fun: So all you pirate bay defenders, how would you like if someone put up Red Orchestra complete with "l337 crack/keygen action" on the Pirate Bay? We could spread the word to all the kids across the internetz about it and where to get it for free! Yeah that would be awesome. Fight the power! Meanwhile TW would have to go to court and spend loads of money hiring attorneys to attempt to stamp out your theives guild and by the time they get a ruling the damage will already be done. Or they could hire a skilled hacker and smash the theives den instantly. I know what I would do. Everything is always awesome and 100% righteous until you are on the other side of it.

EDIT: Spoke too soon, thanks siberianfox! You do good work.

 

[Lt_Kettch]

Actually there are goverments that brake copyright laws ...

The Brazilians do so they can produce medical drugs for reasonbile prices otherwise lots of ppl couldn't effort their medication.
And only because patents protect the developments of few pharma companies which only have their own advanteg in mind.

Laws are just agreements for a social life some make sense to me and some not.

We could start and list stupid laws ... but that is waste of time


And wait there was a time when RO was free ...

 

[BuddyLee]

Go Pirates Go!!!

I especially hope they **** Sony hard for their shenanigans with rootkit bull****.

Copyright Laws and The patent Office are the reason you have to buy Windows to play Video Games... these ****ers are slowing down human progress.

Most games and crappy music etc. are not worth the price of the CD they are burned on...

 

[Oldih]

Providing a venue for people to share copyrighted material. It'd be interesting: Invite some drug & illegal gun dealers into your place while you just kick back and facilitate such a gathering. Then when the cops arrive say, oh I'm not involved with these guys I'm just letting them use my "place" kthx. If you know what the definition of "tacit approval" is then you know how these fileshare progs operate.

Problem is that in Sweden it is (IIRC, Svedberg could you fill me up if I am not correct) legal to use such crap. And since TPB servers are based in Sweden the swedish laws applies - not US, finnish, russian or german laws or whatever else you can imagine.

Sad but true. In both the ironic and the sad way.

 

[Quietus]

Which is why you can't take the lawful route when dealing with these people. When you are left with only one tool most people would use that tool to survive rather than go.."Oh this is illegal I will just lay down and die". Hiding behind other countries lack of jurisdiction is noble indeed. Think I'll open up a site with every Swedish movie, CD, TV series etc ever made and let people have a smorgasborg of pilfering. Then I can be a "big man" and hide behind my countries laws like only a little girl could.

 

[DFN]

IMHO the only reason to break a law is if it...

1) Works completely against its obvious intention.
2) It is a matter of life and death.
3. Is clearly outdated or simply not being enforced (take laws that prohibit oral/****/gay sex, dressing in a spesific color or similar as examples).

It is funny tho, that multinational companies which origins from the US, have an interesting tendency to try to apply US law to whichever country they are dealing in as well as doing their best to exploit any loophole they can find. They also lobby towards their own government to make it "push untill they squeak" on weaker nations that is in some way dependant on the US and get them to reshape laws and regulations so that they better fit the goals of these companies. A disguisting and immoral behaviour if you ask me, and something that just ads up on the list of grievances many people feel towards modern day american economics and politics.

The whole entertainement industry have serious problems coping with the change the last 10-15 years of digital evolution have led to. In many cases they are fighting an endless number of Stalingrads, yet they simply don't seem to get it. They have rethink their whole mode of operation but they are too stubborn. They can still make money, wast amounts of money, they just have to do it through different channels than the traditional ones. In this process some of these corporations are bound to end up floating with their belly up, but thats how the "free" marked works. Evolve or die.

Cheering for Pirate Bay isn't cheering for piracy, its cheering for a nation and its right to make their own laws and run themselves. The fact that Pirate Bay exist and do fight these legal battles and create the media storms is important in a democratic society, regardless of how one feel about their activities.

/DFN

 

[Fu. Svedberg]

Which is why you can't take the lawful route when dealing with these people. When you are left with only one tool most people would use that tool to survive rather than go.."Oh this is illegal I will just lay down and die". Hiding behind other countries lack of jurisdiction is noble indeed. Think I'll open up a site with every Swedish movie, CD, TV series etc ever made and let people have a smorgasborg of pilfering. Then I can be a "big man" and hide behind my countries laws like only a little girl could.

So you suggest we should all ignore the law if it doesn't suit us?

And as have been said many times before: The Pirate Bay isn't doing anything illegal, neither you like it or not.

This isn't even a Sweden vs USA (or the World vs USA) debate since 4 of the companies on that list are French, 3 are American, 2 are Japanese and 1 is British.

 

[Quietus]

IMHO the only reason to break a law is if it...

1) Works completely against its obvious intention.
2) It is a matter of life and death.
3. Is clearly outdated or simply not being enforced (take laws that prohibit oral/****/gay sex, dressing in a spesific color or similar as examples).

It is funny tho, that multinational companies which origins from the US, have an interesting tendency to try to apply US law to whichever country they are dealing in as well as doing their best to exploit any loophole they can find. They also lobby towards their own government to make it "push untill they squeak" on weaker nations that is in some way dependant on the US and get them to reshape laws and regulations so that they better fit the goals of these companies. A disguisting and immoral behaviour if you ask me, and something that just ads up on the list of grievances many people feel towards modern day american economics and politics.

The whole entertainement industry have serious problems coping with the change the last 10-15 years of digital evolution have led to. In many cases they are fighting an endless number of Stalingrads, yet they simply don't seem to get it. They have rethink their whole mode of operation but they are too stubborn. They can still make money, wast amounts of money, they just have to do it through different channels than the traditional ones. In this process some of these corporations are bound to end up floating with their belly up, but thats how the "free" marked works. Evolve or die.

Cheering for Pirate Bay isn't cheering for piracy, its cheering for a nation and its right to make their own laws and run themselves. The fact that Pirate Bay exist and do fight these legal battles and create the media storms is important in a democratic society, regardless of how one feel about their activities.

/DFN

Eh, I'm not for or against "big entertainment" or whatever. But what it boils down to is people are getting things for free which they should not. Also it's disingenuious to "rage against the man" while consuming copious amounts of their products. If you like something enough to listen to/watch/ be entertained by it then that means by extension that you see value in the product and if you see value in something then why would you expect to recieve it for free?

No matter how much people dislike the behavior of "big media" or whatever, they are no better than them because they enjoy their "product" yet make endless excuses as to why they shouldn't have to pay for it. "oh yeah BM needs to evolve b4 I pay 4 stuff" "oh most of it is garbage anyway" Ok what about the portion you are enjoying for free that isn't garbage? "yeah well, I don't like this album enough to buy it" (just enough to listen to it everyday though, funny). Excuses are like water they just keep on flowing.

 

[Grobut]

By your reasoning Quietus, if somebody bothers me, but i have no legal right to hurt them, its ok for me to hire a goon squad and have them manhandled in my name? and that will somehow make me more of a man? thats what your saying..

Im no freind of pirates, i buy my stuff, but you would have to be blind to not see how morally bankrupt it is for big companies to hire thugs to do their dirty work for them when they dont have a leg to stand on legally.. whats next? will big blokes in dark shades come and break the guys thumbs?

Ofcourse, you'd probably love that woulden't you..

 

[Quietus]

By your reasoning Quietus, if somebody bothers me, but i have no legal right to hurt them, its ok for me to hire a goon squad and have them manhandled in my name? and that will somehow make me more of a man? thats what your saying..

Not if somebody is bothering you but if someone is threatening your lively hood by stealing your products instead of paying for them and the "authorities" are completely FUBAR and in a lifelong coma, then I don't think it's unreasonable to fight fire with fire under those circumstances (I'm talking about hacking not "goon squads"). There's a big difference between taking physical violent action against someone and merely trying to ensure that you are not being robbed blind by legions of fileshare users. I'm in no way talking about violent vigilante acts or anything like that. I'm talking about copyright/ ownership/ property rights.

 

[[3.SA].Vlad]

Yes it is pretty entertaining... I'll make things even more fun: So all you pirate bay defenders, how would you like if someone put up Red Orchestra complete with "l337 crack/keygen action" on the Pirate Bay? We could spread the word to all the kids across the internetz about it and where to get it for free! Yeah that would be awesome. Fight the power! Meanwhile TW would have to go to court and spend loads of money hiring attorneys to attempt to stamp out your theives guild and by the time they get a ruling the damage will already be done. Or they could hire a skilled hacker and smash the theives den instantly. I know what I would do. Everything is always awesome and 100% righteous until you are on the other side of it.

EDIT: Spoke too soon, thanks siberianfox! You do good work.

Thing is that would probally never happen... atleast they probally wouldn't get it working online...

 

[Kenza]

I just want to say to all of you that thinks the whole file sharing issue is about protecting some companies properties and wheter its right or wrong to "steal" that property, you're so wrong.

Its actually alot bigger then that now. Now im not that good at explaining things, but i think you should take a look at this small (55min ) clip from the Google TechTalks: Linky

Its pretty much spot on with what i think about it.

 

[Nimsky]

Quietus, I don't know why you're defending corporate greed so much. It's really the ruiner of all things good.

By the way, piracy has never ended a musician's career or helped the downfall of a game developer. Piracy isn't that bad. Okay, maybe they will earn a bit less money. So what. They still make a lot of money. Bands who sue programs like Napster or Bittorrent only prove that they're only in it for the money. That's not what music is about. Don't you think that art should be shared? I know that if I were to be in a successful band, I wouldn't care if people were downloading my music for free. At least they're having a good time listening to it. Money has nothing to do with music.

Michael Moore explains it better:

I don't agree with the copyright laws, and I don't have a problem with people downloading the movie and sharing it with people… as long as they're not doing it to make a profit off it as long as they're not, you know trying to make a profit off my labor — I would oppose that but you know I do quite well, and I don't know... I make these books and movies and TV shows because I want things to change, and so the more people who get to see them, the better. And so I'm…I'm happy I'm happy if that happens Should I not be happy?.I don't know, It's like if a friend of yours had the DVD of my movie — gave it to you to watch one night is that person doing something wrong? I'm not seeing any money from that, but he's just handing the DVD to you so that you can watch my movie, that he bought, and you're not buying it — and yet you're watching it without paying me any money you see, I think that's OK, I mean, that's always been okay right? — You share things with people and I think information, and art, and ideas should be shared.

• After being asked what he thought about his films being pirated on the internet, in a press conference (July 2004) (YouTube video), quoted in "Moore: Pirate my film, no problem" by Iain S. Bruce in Sunday Herald (4 July 2004) [Glascow, Scotland]

Then there's idiotic companies that install mallware or other intrusive software along with their game on your PC... BioShock anyone? I personally don't support this DRM thing, so I refuse to buy products from a company that use that crap.

Still on the corporate side of the fence? I know I'm not. But I do support good bands or gaming companies by buying their stuff. Tripwire and BIS (ArmA) are two examples of a good, honest company. I doubt PB is going to win, but it's a nice action anyway.

 

[Quietus]

Quietus, I don't know why you're defending corporate greed so much. It's really the ruiner of all things good.

By the way, piracy has never ended a musician's career or helped the downfall of a game developer. Piracy isn't that bad. Okay, maybe they will earn a bit less money. So what. They still make a lot of money. Bands who sue programs like Napster or Bittorrent only prove that they're only in it for the money. That's not what music is about. Don't you think that art should be shared? I know that if I were to be in a successful band, I wouldn't care if people were downloading my music for free. At least they're having a good time listening to it. Money has nothing to do with music.

People (musicians) need to make a living. "Oh they're a musician, musicians don't require money to live, they live off of wild berries and fig leaves". Not every musician enjoys touring seedy hole in the wall clubs selling shirts & hats after show because those are the only 2 things people can't digitally steal. I'm sure MANY a band has given up because of piracy.

 

[Murphy]

That's not the point. The question isn't whether piracy is morally good or bad, but whether you can enforce your rights by illegal means.

Its like shooting someone who is stalking you because your country doesn't have a law against stalking. You can't do that. You can't even turn around and slap the stalker. Its illegal and stalking is not. Its as easy as that.
If you want to change something you have to work to get a court to make a law that makes stalking illegal. That's the only thing you can do.

In this case, they should try to get someone to pass a law that prohibits what the pirate bay does. If they can't do that they have to live with it. That's how the law works.

Oh, and just because of the existence of the pirate bay its not like musicians earn absolutely no money from selling their records. Even if that was true it wouldn't be the ruin for all those bands, because money you earn from making tours in bars, on parties, on festivals and selling your merchandising stuff is enough to make a living if you are good enough. Even if it was true, it is a purely hypothetical question that is never going to have any practical value, because there are enough people who buy all of their music and some who buy the music they really like and only pirate to try it before or only pirate music that isn't worth buying for for them. People who pirate everything they use are the absolute exception.
Musicians aren't poor because of piracy.
I'd say that the binding contracts with bigger labels are far more of a financial leech than all the leechers in the pirate bay.

 

[ImNotRyan]

People (musicians) need to make a living. "Oh they're a musician, musicians don't require money to live, they live off of wild berries and fig leaves". Not every musician enjoys touring seedy hole in the wall clubs selling shirts & hats after show because those are the only 2 things people can't digitally steal. I'm sure MANY a band has given up because of piracy.

Thank god, I don't want to hear music from "musicians." Get a damn job, live a life like everyone else and make music as your hobby and passion. I don't want to hear music from someone getting paid to do it anymore than I want sex from someone getting paid to do it.

Unless you wanna hear nickleback sing about how hard it is to be a rock star some more?

If making music is the slightest bit hard or troublesome to you, and you don't get personal satisfaction from playing it for people, be it at a big show or a seedy bar, than ****ing quit playing. I would hate to bother you.

Thats my opinion and it's not up for debate. Music is a passion, not a financial venture.

 

[Grobut]

People (musicians) need to make a living. "Oh they're a musician, musicians don't require money to live, they live off of wild berries and fig leaves". Not every musician enjoys touring seedy hole in the wall clubs selling shirts & hats after show because those are the only 2 things people can't digitally steal. I'm sure MANY a band has given up because of piracy.

Thats pure undiluted BS mate, piracy is not choking bands, because bands actually dont make any real money from the record sales.. you know why? because of copyright! you see, they dont have it, they dont own the music they made, because they had to sign a contract to get a big label to publish them, and that contract signed over the copyright to the label!

When you buy a CD, you are not really putting cash in the musicians wallet, they only get a pitifull royalty of that sale, no, you are giving all that money to the middle man, the label, who's only contribution to the music you love and payed for has been boxing it and sticking their name on it.. and then making you pay out your arse for it!

Bands make their money on concerts, because the label cannot steal that money from them, they make next to nothing on the record sales.
So the artist really doesen't care if you pirate or buy his CD, no, he cares that you come see his concert, because thats where he gets his paycheck!


Why do you think music is so bloody expensive!? its because of corporate greed mate, by the time the product gets to you, it has been milked for all its worth, and its not the creator of the product thats making the big money (though they are the only ones who deserve it!), its the middle man, who can take outrageous prices for his "services" (even though he's just boxing it and putting his name on it) because he's got the copyright!


So really, both you, and the creator of the product is getting ripped off by this, and since prices are so unrealistically inflated by the time the middle man has taken his cut, people start to pirate.

Thease people contribute nothing, they have merely obtained a legal document that allows them to charge anything they want for someone elses product, and you have no choice but to pay what they ask if you want it.. they are parasites, draining your wallet dry whilst giving nothing in return.

 

[ImNotRyan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ5iHaV0dP4

And I'm not a NIN fan. Actually I never listen to 'em.

Remember when Smashng Pumpkins gave away their whole album online?
Maybe it was the one no one really liked that much, but hey! lol

 

[Six_Ten]

.

.

Yes it is pretty entertaining... I'll make things even more fun: So all you pirate bay defenders, how would you like if someone put up Red Orchestra complete with "l337 crack/keygen action" on the Pirate Bay? We could spread the word to all the kids across the internetz about it and where to get it for free! Yeah that would be awesome. Fight the power! Meanwhile TW would have to go to court and spend loads of money hiring attorneys to attempt to stamp out your theives guild and by the time they get a ruling the damage will already be done. Or they could hire a skilled hacker and smash the theives den instantly. I know what I would do. Everything is always awesome and 100% righteous until you are on the other side of it.

EDIT: Spoke too soon, thanks siberianfox! You do good work.

Have you searched for RedOrchestra on PirateBay? I have.

As for the big compaines engaing in hacking to "defend" their products, whatever the morality of it, they are or ought to be subject to the sme penalties as the independent hackers.

About the profit on music: if you are a mucisian and you make a contract witha record label, you must agree to that 1 dollar per album, they dont force you to it. If you want more profit you are free to produce and manufacture and market and distribute your music yourself.

 

[Quietus]

Thank god, I don't want to hear music from "musicians." Get a damn job, live a life like everyone else and make music as your hobby and passion. I don't want to hear music from someone getting paid to do it anymore than I want sex from someone getting paid to do it.

Unless you wanna hear nickleback sing about how hard it is to be a rock star some more?

If making music is the slightest bit hard or troublesome to you, and you don't get personal satisfaction from playing it for people, be it at a big show or a seedy bar, than ****ing quit playing. I would hate to bother you.

Thats my opinion and it's not up for debate. Music is a passion, not a financial venture.

Well I'm not a musician but being a musician is their "job". There are no "real jobs" only people getting paid money for their time and effort which is exactly what a musician does. Just playing music as a "hobby" will get you front and center stage of your bedroom only (I'm testimony to that). It's only the ones who dedicate their lives to it (hence becoming their "job") that get anywhere. Everybody does what they "do well" and should be paid for it.