Squad Leader Weapon Selection

[Solo4114]

Ok, this may seem counter-intuitive to a lot of people, but I've been thinking lately that the Squad Leader ought to be able to have a bolt action weapon as an option, instead of simply an SMG or semi-auto. It's nice to have those options, sure, but in some cases, a bolt is really preferable.

Example: last night I was playing on Rakowice as the German squad leader. Now, I don't know about anyone else here, but I SUCK with the G43 and I freely admit it. I simply cannot get the hang of the sights on that thing and it kicks like a damn mule. Thing is, the MP40 is next to useless in a lot of cases on that map. While I can certainly loot weapons off of other people, if I'd had the option I ABSOLUTELY would've taken a K98 instead. Likewise, on a map like, say, Berezina, playing as the Russian squad leader I almost always find myself ditching my SMG in favor of at least an M38 if not a 91/30.

So, why not simply give the squad leader the choice on this one? Is it really that historically inaccurate that a squad leader would've had a boltie instead of one of the other rapid fire weapons?

 

[Feldwebel Horst]

yes, afaik they where equipped with smgs to support the assault. it was a privilege to get your hands on an automatic weapon, the most soldiers got a bolt action rifle.

 

[Oldih]

yes, afaik they where equipped with smgs to support the assault. it was a privilege to get your hands on an automatic weapon, the most soldiers got a bolt action rifle.

Well I am not sure about Soviet army, but it was not impossible and not "one in a million" chance to see a squad leader armed with a rifle at the germans.

Since considering, that MP40s were produced\manufractured\such and such about one million IIRC, and there was over total 20 million of men serving in Wehrmacht throughout the war, so practically you have 1\20 chance of getting one of total, and in practical 1\10. So usually one per squad, but not always.

So on the german side, it is NOT farby to have a chance that in some maps (not in every map, dammit) there might be Mauser only avaible or possibly a choice between MP40 and Mauser.

Dunno about Soviets though.

And in case if someone don't get it, generic battlefield tactics of germans relied upon support weapon. Gruppenf

 

[18Bravo]

There are times when I'd prefer the bolt action for the squad leader as well, but I think the way loadouts are setup, the map maker decides if you can have it from the start. Otherwise you just got to find one on the battlefield, thankfully due to training, every soldier was trained on the rifle before they trained on a smg, so they should be decent even if they picked it off a dead friendly.

 

[Isaak Johnson]

Well you could look at it another way. . .

This whole issue with Squad Leaders not having a bolt action rifle is like a trade off when you choose your class, as all the different classes have advantages and disadvantages.

You can go for the Squad leader for his artillery, smoke grenades and binoculars, but you have to use a more innacurate machine gun.
Or you can go as a foot soldier or other rifle-equipped class but you wont have the advantages of the long range guns and smoke consealment at your disposial.

In your example of choosing between the Squad Leader and a Rifleman, I would suggest you choose the one that that is the most valuable to you at the moment. Which do you (and possibely your team) need more?

 

[Solo4114]

In my experience, the Squad Leader's 1.5x cap power, and support abilities are what make him valuable. That said, on a map where I have a choice of [Team SMG] or [Team Semi-Auto Rifle], why not also put in [Team Bolt Action Carbine]?

I get the notion of limiting the squad leader at least based on his spawning equipment. But I do not get why the bolt wouldn't be an option if you already are throwing in a semi-auto option.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

I agree with this. Usually it's not that important, and even if an MP40 isn't suitable for the circumstances I'm willing to adjust my tactics to work around it. But take Kryukovo as an example. Playing on that map as a German squad leader. The engagement ranges are very long unless you live in the forest. And the number of rounds you have to expend at those ranges to kill a target make you a sitting duck for enemy riflemen. Not to mention the fact that you run out of ammo quickly. And unless you scavenge for a Kar98k, you're **** outta luck. The G41 isn't an option.

 

[murderous_eagle]

I seem to remember in maps in the beta days some KOs/Gruppens had the option of a rifle. On Danzig the Russian commander could pick an m38 for example.

 

[Rrralphster]

I was thinking that specially the German army was trained to perform certain roles which also included a certain weapon belonging to that role.
I'm not sure how organised and disciplined the Russians were in this matter but I can Imagine they couldn't just pick up any weapon of their choice either.

One thing I do think of is that in a combat situation you don't go swap weapons and ammo with a fallen officer. You just take command and keep the weapon you allready have (and rely on).

Tough choice. Realism or freedom to pick whatever you like.

 

[Ermac]

I would also like this, I don't see why a german squad leader wouldin't be able to have a kar98 when they when millions were made.

 

[LukeFF]

Didn't German military doctrine state that NCOs and platoon leaders were to focus on leading their troops and not trying to make long range rifle kills, hence the reason why they were issued an SMG?

 

[Solo4114]

Yes, but that's not what NCOs do in this game necessarily. As Squad Leader you don't actually lead anything. You might as well try herding cats.

Regardless, I don't think this is really a realism issue. I'm sure there were officers who used longarms rather than SMGs. All I'm really saying is, at the very least, on a map where you ALREADY have the option of taking a semi-auto, give people the option to pick a bolt-action instead.

 

[Rak]

I think this is up to custom mappers, rather than TW. Most of the commanders had an SMG, so it's what we have now It'd be cool to see a commander with rifle on some new maps though.

 

[[3.SA].Vlad]

I'd really like SL to have a bolt for both sides so many times ive been caught out on basovka because I had smg or the less accurate semi auto.Although I never really need a gun because my arty is good enough

 

[Isaak Johnson]

I think this is up to custom mappers, rather than TW.

Overall, this is probably the main reason, it just depends on the map designer and how we wants to organize the classes.

 

[Solo4114]

Well, but even on maps like Kaukasus and Basovka, the squad leader has a semi-auto or SMG option, but no option for a boltie. Granted, it's not hard to FIND one if you want one, but it just seems like why NOT give folks the option? There are some maps where a boltie is preferred.

 

[Rak]

You can still pick it up in Kaukasus if you want it that bad. It's crawling with rifles everywhere

 

[Solo4114]

Yes, but that's not really my point. It'd be nice to have it accessible in the spawn menu, and there's no reason not to on maps where you have a semi-auto. ESPECIALLY for the Germans (at least in my case).

 

[Sigurd]

So, why not simply give the squad leader the choice on this one? Is it really that historically inaccurate that a squad leader would've had a boltie instead of one of the other rapid fire weapons?

I would think it is. Especially when you consider the fact that bolts are overpowered in RO compared to semi-auto's. That means the average soldier IRL is just as accurate up to 200-300 meters with the semi-auto.

But why not add it anyway? We already have way to many mp41, stg44, Tigers, t34/85, etc.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

Hey, I have no complaints in the maps where a semi-auto is an option. A ranged weapon is a ranged weapon and semi autos are still very accurate if you use them right.

But Kryukovo drives me nuts, because the only choices are the MP40 and MP41, and the engagement ranges are long.