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Beta Map RO-Kriegstadt beta 1

In regard to the Panzerfausts, I'm looking to strike a bit of a compromise here. I'm going to be increasing the impact damage inflicted by the Panzerfaust, but players will only be able to carry two at a time (for added realism lolomg). A lot of the Panzerfaust spawns throughout the cityscape, such as in buildings lining the streets, will go mostly unaltered, but heavy resistance strong points like capzones will have an abundance of Panzerfaust spawns (7-8) but with increased respawn times (60-120 seconds). I also want for the PaK guns to form a major backbone of the anti tank defense, while Panzerfaust wielding infantry need to work their way through ruins to sneak up on Soviet tanks, rather than mortar launching them from 120+ meters away.

So basically, you will be seeing more lethal Panzerfausts, but players who want to get their hands on them will need to do a lot of footwork or wait for about a minute for more fausts to respawn. I think it's a fairly good tradeoff.

I also want to find a way to disable/enable the faust pickup spawns at certain points, almost in the same manner that tanks use, and possibly find a way to make the Pantherturm immune to Panzerfausts, as I would much rather see players trying to fight it with the tanks instead of some sneaky infantryman shooting two fausts at it instantly negating a focal strongpoint.

Acceptable? Yes/No?

On to some other points:

My opinion, in regards to the darkness of the map is.. leave it the way it is! I love all of the nooks and crannies, the dark areas, the high overlooking places... these all provide fantastic defense points. The darkness, combined with the uniforms, really makes this map feel realistic. Moreso than uber bright brown Russians you can see a mile away. Please keep it dark and moody! It works nicely like this... people will get used to it, give it time.

Areas close to windows will be illuminated, as in many buildings (but as I got closer and closer to Sept. 7th I slacked off with lighting). However, the deep interiors will probably be their usual darkness, but with a lantern or two here or there. The uncertainty of entering a dark building is a factor I want to leave in, and the feeling that any window is a potential ambush location is another part of the design philosophy, otherwise the buildings wouldn't be as open as they are.

The MG-42 is absolutely sick on this map. Is there any chance of having you add one MG-34? With all of the vantage points available, an MG-34 with it's single shot capabilities would be soooo awesome to use here.

I will make an MG34 using my modified MG code, but it won't be included in Kriegstadt, but I will make the package available for other mappers to use, which should feature the modified MG42, MG34, and DP28.

Can't wait to play it with a server full of clan vets :cool:.
Neither can I. :D

But i would say congrats to author for spending so long on this project- in the same time I guess he could have released a few different maps but fortunately did not.
There are quite a lot of 3rd party maps now, especially CA, and i would much rather see a quality few than a mass of average ones.

That's not to put off novice mappers, who obviously should go for releases fairly soon to get feedback and experience- but I'd like to see experienced ones take time to produce quality.

I agree with your sentiment. When the mapping contest was finished up, I had a half-finished Kriegstadt and was only scalding myself for being too ambitious in my pursuits, but I resolved to release one grandiose project rather than a few smaller maps that would simply come and go in peoples' memories. I furthermore believe that mappers should try to go the extra mile to deliver a quality piece of work, as many people can create just a map, but it takes something special to create a battlefield. </After-Hourz>

I have not seen them disappear before but you could use a destro mesh and have the destroyed mesh which would be a box appear on top of the fausts blocking their use. So like if you destroy this fence piece then it causes a box to appear on a faust in Russian Territory. Just a thought.

I wanted to move away from the classic "Get yer fausts here!" boxes in maps, and that is why when you find a Panzerfaust, it is propped up against a wall, laid on a bed or piece of furniture, or situated behind a defensive position.

Played on the zombie bug server & the allied side got chewed up pretty bad at the first cap, the MG42 is just vicious.

I really wish that Server Admins could set it up properly, if you happen to catch a server that doesn't have the skins installed right give me the admin's email and I will nag him.

In any event though, a 50 player 24/7 Kriegstadt server would be awesome, even if it were run just for a month or two.

Anyway, expect Beta 2 to roll out when the PaK43 is fixed. Until then, thanks for your feedback and input.
 
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Hey EH I think you misunderstood my comment someone was saying that they were not liking the russians getting all the fausts when they moved up my idea was sort of the same implementation I use in Dubrava a team trigger causes a mesh to be destroyed but in your case it would be in reverse the team trigger triggered by Russians would make a box appear(using the destro mesh combo), the box would be larger than the Faust pickup zone so it would make the faust unattainable. it doesnt even have to be a box it could be anything it could be a wall brush you made into static the brush would appear and make the room a fraction smaller covering the fausts you dont want the russians to get. Just an idea.
 
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a way to make the Pantherturm immune to Panzerfausts, as I would much rather see players trying to fight it with the tanks instead of some sneaky infantryman shooting two fausts at it instantly negating a focal strongpoint.

Acceptable? Yes/No?
No. 1) It will be more arcade-like and less realistic. I mean, why don't they inflict damage? I don't remember armour values of this tank, but I don't think it was immune to fausts? 2) Even with so many fausts now Russians have really a hard time at this square.
 
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I was seriously disappointed last night when trying to find a good server to play Kriegstadt on. There's nothing worse than having a great new map and nobody to play it.

I did, however, feel the compulsion to fill a server before going to sleep. Started the map off with 9 people, ended up with 38 at one point. :D I'm going to have to agree with the folks who say that this map is playable from 6-50 players. It truly is fun, no matter how many people are playing.

I'm just gonna have to shake my head at the people *cough*Napoleon*cough* who thought the new russian uniforms were "grey" and thus, "unrealistic". Hobo's new green uniforms, as well as the greatcoats, are a breath of fresh air after having to fight the vanilla russians, who are practically yellow. The new, darker german uniforms also come off as something that adds realism to the map. Whatever you do, Hobo, don't let the noobs influence the direction your map is going.

I'd also like to add that some players are ruining the map for others, specifically players who are in key positions and don't do their jobs. If their attitude represents lack of skill, lack of experience on the map in question (the most probable explanation) or ill will, they are sucking the joy out of this map most of the time.

The best example of this attitude is that of the inexperienced russian tanker: always advancing too close to enemy positions, driving in the wrong direction... the russian tanks on this map are essential to them winning, specifically at the DeutscheBank and Moltke Bridge objectives. I have seen the moltke bridge cap held for 50 minutes because the SU driver was a ******.

I'm sure this noobishness will diminish with time, but it just goes to show that this map is truly "combined arms". Both infantry and tanks are lethal to each other, and the lack of one, makes the other mincemeat.

Keep it up, and three cheers for Beta 2.
 
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Map is awesome. Main problem is the performance I think. I'm getting extreme "lag" especially when the player count rises you can see everyones pings shoot up accordingly. I think it's because there are so many network relevant things. I just looked fairly quick at it in the editor and you have I think 53 panzerfaust spawns total and quite a few Paks, so those are all network relevant from what I've been told/understand. It's no suprise that servers are being punished trying to track all that info in addition to the players and all the weapons they are dropping all over.

What you said about linking the panzerfausts to spawns is exactly what I was thinking but you need some code gurus to accomplish that. Also the Paks are spawn linkable too but I noticed you didn't do them. This is just an educated guess by me but if you could link panzerfausts & of course the paks to appear only when the relevant spawn point is active I think that would take a huge load off of the server so it's not calculating everything constantly but only when neccessary. Of course you would need to be very crafty about it though because currently you can only link to 1 spawn which creates a major problem.

Also I didn't see any Antiportals except for some dinky ones at the first objective, but I didn't examine thouroughly so maybe I missed them. But if not definitely put alot of AP in as that will help things on the players computer at least (not the servers as far as I know). But aside from the performance issues like I said, map is awesome.
 
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No. 1) It will be more arcade-like and less realistic. I mean, why don't they inflict damage? I don't remember armour values of this tank, but I don't think it was immune to fausts? 2) Even with so many fausts now Russians have really a hard time at this square.

I just feel that it cheapens the Pantherturm by a lot. Russians can run in to the Dornburg Apts and then grab some fausts, then run through the Ruins until they get to the third or fourth story and fire off two fausts and it's pretty much done. Like I said, I'd like to see the tanks do the job, but perhaps if I style it like the Panzer IV H I might be able to just make certain parts of it immune and thusly award players who manage to sneak behind it and faust it there. I dunno, will need to think about it.

Thoughts on the other Panzerfaust suggestions / amends?

In regard to performance, I do consider the reduction of network-relevant actors to be of the utmost importance at this stage since yes, there are absolute loads of Panzerfaust spawns, and as such I am going to need to adjust them to only be active at certain points in time. Hopefully, the server shouldn't have to deal with any more than 10 Panzerfaust spawns at the most. Linking the PaK Guns to spawns will be another point that I will get to.

I can also look in to further reducing actor count or collision data for a lot of meshes, which should aid performance even more.
 
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Yeah, great panzerfaust Idea Hobo, The Panzerfaust's def need a tweek up in strength.
My thoughts on the panzerfaust is that it should not be a pick up for the Russians that seems cheap to me that on most Ro maps the Russians are wielding panzerfausts. While people can argue that they did make use of it it, the same information sources that suggest this also state it was only in very thinly distrubuted hand fulls in and 1945 and it would be illlogical to make this since the Germans do not receive the much more abundant Ppsh-41's and Svt-40s earlier in the war when they had more of them pressed into service than the Russians ever got panzerfausts!
My point keep the panzerfaust German, it is more realistic than letting Russians constantly pick them up (sometimes right next to their spawn) since it was a very late war rareity on the battlefield and its its not even needed here there is no German armor.:)

For the PF diappaearing after the postion is overrun- Arad realism had something like this idk how Schartshofen did it I think it involved triggers.

I will make an MG34 using my modified MG code, but it won't be included in Kriegstadt, but I will make the package available for other mappers to use, which should feature the modified MG42, MG34, and DP28.

Cool nice Hobo, I believe the Tripwire verison is the 50 round drum any chance of upping it to the 75 round drum?
or perhaps using an alpha texture to cover up the drum and make it a full belt Mg34?- Always wanted this for the Germans.
 
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Played this yesterday for just one round unfortunately, I was VERY impressed!
I played on the Russian side, I must admit, I had my doubts about those greatcoats but they actually look really good, deffinately a breath of fresh air there.
I LOVE the new mgs, I didn't use one but I really enjoyed getting shot at with them :D
It was brilliant too see the infantry actually using the tanks as mobile cover and actually getting organised to attack strongpoints, especially at the bridge, we just need and "URRAH!!" voicecommand :p
I'm sure this map is going to be a favorite for a long time, good work!
 
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Since I've already modified the tanks enough, I might be doing some additional modification work. One of the things I am looking at right now is the damage radius of the HE rounds, as when playing I noticed that HE shells were passing through windows hitting the walls behind them, but those were back too far to kill to soldier within the building. This was especially apparent when fighting for the Moltke Bridge.

Current values are as follows:

Code:
122mm HE radius: 1200
85mm HE radius: 850
76mm HE radius: 750
These values are being adjusted to:


Code:
122mm HE radius: 1400
85mm HE radius: 950
76mm HE radius: 950
However at this point I understand that Axis casualties will mount much more higher than before, and as such I will be raising their reinforcements from 475 to 500-525.

Still looking in to optimizing network performance in regard to the Panzerfaust and PaK guns. So far I have a hefty changelog of other material, and that should be released around Thursday-Friday.

Opinions?
 
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Played on the zombie bug server & the allied side got chewed up pretty bad at the first cap, the MG42 is just vicious.

Thx!

played on the same server today, first round went as 2fisted desribed, We won second round 2 minutes before then end of the timer (they were at 0% but still slaughtering us. I hadn't killed e German in like 10 respawns, the bridge is just a slaughterfest :p (partly because of the HE problem you mentionned above)
Great map concept, feels epic. Needs a few gameplay (eg got a SU stuck on nothing in the breach of that triangular block of building near the Bank *edit* oh, yeah, and this might have been mentionned before but I got stuck in the ground around the dug-in panther ) and aesthetic (eg missing/flickering textures in the Bank) tweaks, but I think we've got a winner here.
Now what we need is to make server cycle Keiserplatz if Soviet win this, and then Parizerplatz :p

Opinions?
great idea, I was about to post about that problem too...
 
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Hobo, I've already told you this but this map is freaking awesome. It's just so damn epic.

Love the uniforms, especially the Russian greatcoat. I've been wanting those since the release of Ostfront. I actually think your uniform skins are much better than stock RO's. Those are too shiny. Yours actually provide some good camouflage, and they look a heck of a lot better; dirtier. Good work.

Only thing I don't like is that 88 gun seems to get destroyed rather easily. One Russian HE shell on a tree standing next to the PaK damages the gun down to "yellow". Not sure if this is realistic or not. However, it's great to have this gun in RO. As for the 88 not working, I don't think it's Kriegstadt's problem. I've had it happen that a Russian AT gun stopped working after I fired its first round. Definitely something going on there. That was on Elnya.

I like how teamwork is really necessary. It's definitely one of the best maps ever for RO, it was about time someone made a 1:1 city map. Bloody amazing. Tripwire should be thankful.
 
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A couple thoughts on Panzerfausts:
- tie them to the spawn managers so that they move along with the front, this will deny the Russians lots of Anti-personnel mortars as the play progresses.
- consider that as you increase their blast range, you encourage their use as anti-personnel weapons.
- be careful how you implement the spawn locations, the last thing you want is five or six guys from a team standing around waiting for the spawn instead of fighting, a very likely outcome once people learn the locations. Maybe an option to randomize their locations by setting vastly different or unpredictable respawn times; borrow the random arty theory from 'Kessel' etc. This puts more dynamic impact into the map.

FPS: seriously consider what you might be able to do to improve performance. Better APs or use of BSP to occlude actors?? I know you may be at the end of the idea rope but always look for one more change for advantage.

Pak43: assume you are doing a mod to the gun and not a 'hobo-version' release to the public, that would be bad. Teufelhund is on family vacation this week but you should contact him if you honestly think the parameters should be tweaked. We are in testing now with the 'AHz_two' vehicle package.
 
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The two servers running this map that get a lot of players (one of them is a 54 player server :O) both have the zombie bug, which I just cannot play with.

One thing I loved doing on this map is trying to get on top of a friendly tank if possible and let it carry me along, but I have a question, does sitting on the back of a T-34 restrict it's turret movement?

Favourite moment on this map so far was riding down the street on a tank and passing a German scribbling on the wall.
BBD.png


Also the amount of rooms in the buildings is astounding, so many places to hide and defend from. The first objective seems to become a bit of a grinder with more players though...
 
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- consider that as you increase [Panzerfaust] blast range, you encourage their use as anti-personnel weapons.

FPS: seriously consider what you might be able to do to improve performance. Better APs or use of BSP to occlude actors?? I know you may be at the end of the idea rope but always look for one more change for advantage.

Pak43: assume you are doing a mod to the gun and not a 'hobo-version' release to the public, that would be bad. Teufelhund is on family vacation this week but you should contact him if you honestly think the parameters should be tweaked. We are in testing now with the 'AHz_two' vehicle package.

I think you misread me in regard to the Panzerfaust, I am increasing its damage but not its blast radius; that is the case, however, for the Soviet HE shells. Linking the fausts to spawns or activating/deactivating them via triggers set off by caps is something I will be looking in to.

FPS is, at this point, as good as its going to get. I could try a few more BSP to mesh conversions, but I would hold off until Beta 3 before going through the pain of crafting them out of BSP sheets before doing the conversion. Detail meshes can be merged and then optimized to reduce material id quantities, and other meshes can have their collision settings removed. For Beta 2 I am looking to fix the glaring issues with the map such as the bugs, BSP holes, and excess of active network actors.

In regard to the PaK43, why would I make and release a version of it and label it as my own? My agreement with the DH team stated that I could use the gun, but the agreement was also that it was not to be shared or implemented in other projects outside of Kriegstadt. If anything, my modifications to it could be construed as further development as a result of playtesting, and if the DH team approves these modifications can be made to the Mod release. Now if the team told me to default, I would, solely out of respect for the agreement.

One thing I loved doing on this map is trying to get on top of a friendly tank if possible and let it carry me along, but I have a question, does sitting on the back of a T-34 restrict it's turret movement?

Favourite moment on this map so far was riding down the street on a tank and passing a German scribbling on the wall.

You won't restrict the turret movement, but it is possible that it could push you off.

Glad you liked the graffiti, I was about to remove it because I wasn't pleased with the quality, but hey, if you like it, why not keep it I guess.
 
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This is just my personal preference but I would like to see the M38 and MN91 rifles taken out as it's 1945 and one could argue that most riflemen were using the M44 at that time. Additionally the M44 was specifically for urban combat but also it's just my own personal favorite as it's excellent all around (bayo already attached & has quicker movement than other rifles). Just my own personal preference so other may not like the idea at all. Also just a minor thing to help performance slightly: Do a "Texture Cull" after you build your map and it's ready to be saved. Type "Texture Cull" in the "command" white box in unreal ed then hit "enter" button on keyboard. This will kick out any unused textures still associated with your map so you don't have any "dead weight" slowing your map down.
 
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Ah, thanks for the tip there. I'll see if it nets me any performance gains.

I will probably drop the M38, but I felt that, going in to Beta 1, it might be right to still keep it since I'm sure it was never wholly phased out of service. The MN91/30 will remain because some people just like their long rifles and due to its production it was likely used. It is worth noting though that upon examining the code that the M44 has the same accuracy/spread as the MN91/30.
 
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