Accurate early war armor

[Slyk]

Use of KVs at realistic armor would take either wider maps or fewer KVs. As for most current maps and likely ones to come, numbers will have to be used to take them out. Someone has to give up their tank/lives most likely to allow the team to flank... stopping is a death wish. In some cases, just keep moving and try to stay ahead of the turret.

That KV2 story...partly right. I have a very detailed history of the event which I am working on recreation of for an RO scenario that will depict what is possible within the confines of the game and round time.

 

[Harry S. Truman]

KV2s...eh I remember reading that a KV2 (that was cut off) held up a whole Panzer Army for a day, and the Germans ultimately just waited for it to run out of its limited ammo before passing it.

On June 23rd 1941, the German 6th Panzer Division established two bridgeheads over the Dubissa river, seizing the town of Rasyenya. The counterattack, by Soviet forces, on these bridgeheads (which were formed by Pz 35(t), infantry, artillery and AT guns) began the same day by units of the 12th Mechanized Corps, 2nd Tank Division and KV heavy tanks of the 3rd Mechanized Corps as reinforcement. General Solyalyskin sent a single KV-2 and some infantry to sever a road connection of the southern bridgehead with the rest of 6th Panzer.

It remained in that position for two days, destroying with its 152mm gun twelve trucks which had tried unsuccessfully to supply the isolated bridgehead. Six PaK39 50mm AT guns were moved into position to dispatch the tank, but even as they scored five direct hits, the tank's gunner returned fire destroying the first gun and damaging all the others. Later, an 88mm FlaK gun (from the FlaK Abt. 298) was moved, from its camouflaged position in the Northern bridgehead, by its half-tracked prime mover using the wreckage of the trucks for cover, to a distance of approximately 900 meters from the tank. It was promptly spotted by the tank crew and destroyed with two direct hits. Relief parties were kept away from the tank by heavy MG fire. Night actions of 57 German Pioneers failed to blow up the KV due to its heavy armor. The KV remained unscathed from even by the explosive charges applied to its hull. A later attempt by the same engineers only resulted in a broken track. Heavy MG fire prevented any other tentative actions against the tank and the Soviet infantry used the cover of darkness to resupply and refuel the KV. This massive KV-2 had managed to stop the entire 6th Panzer Division!

So desperate was becoming the situation, that 6th Panzer Division requested 1st Panzer Division to come to its rescue by striking the Western flank of the 12th. Mechanized Corps and 2nd Tank Division. The 1st Pz. Div. was largely equipped with the newer PzKw III's and IV's, which have proved to be more successful (although in very unusual circumstances) than the PzKw 35(t) which equipped the 6th. Pz. Div. against the heavy Soviet tank. In its drive, the 1st Pz. Div. succeeded in breaching the Russian lines and defeated their armored forces. There were many KV tanks among their ranks and 29 were destroyed or abandoned in the action. This helped the bridgehead by placing pressure on the supporting Sovet troops. A Platoon of PzKw 35(t)s were sent to distract the KV-2 tank while another 88mm FlaK gun was carefully brought forward. When in position it opened fire, scoring six direct hits and apparently disabling the tank. Further examination proved that only two projectiles had penetrated and while the German crew climbed over the tank examining the beast, its turret began rotating against them. An engineer finished it off by placing an explosive charge in an opened hatch.

 

[18Bravo]

With that many sappers around, you would think they would've brought enough explosives to make that tank "disappear".

 

[Elysium]

With that many sappers around, you would think they would've brought enough explosives to make that tank "disappear".

I find that story unrealistic, how can those stachels only damage its tracks only? In RO they can blow up your tank placed two meters away on the ground

 

[Peter.Steele]

Well with RO default tank system you can beat Tiger even with T-60 just like that. So I wouldn't say that having a Tiger is exactly that "imba".

Um. Not so much, actually.

I've shot quite literally -every- square inch of a Tiger, from every imaginable angle, from point blank range, without doing a single bit of damage. Even plunging fire, coming down from above.

Nothing. No damage.

 

[Peter.Steele]

Well, the reason why the Tiger works on 88v76 is that the Tiger isn't modeled realistically. Its armor is still more vulnerable than it should be, most of the time, but aside from that, engagement ranges on most maps featuring an "88v76" matchup (IE: Black Day July) favor the T-34. They're close range maps, really, at least for tank combat. Yes, even BDJ. Orel only begins to approach the max ranges at which the Tiger could operate effectively, which was its real strength. It's not that the thing was invulnerable, just that it could kill you before you could kill it.

heh. Just wait for Krivoi Rog. 4,000 meters of Tigery goodness.

 

[dogbadger]

i was just thinking theres a much quoted passage about the kv1 as well - From Rauss's writings but it turns up everywhere: when the 4th panzer group were held up by a single tank for a few days. They had to distract it with 5 tanks while they carefully set up an 88 behind it- and it still took a few shots apparently.
The kvs are on their way and will be available for use - some maps will feature them others wont but its good to have the choice.
But i agree with solo, although i like tanks in stock RO, i think mare nostrum will be where its at.

 

[Oldih]

Um. Not so much, actually.

I've shot quite literally -every- square inch of a Tiger, from every imaginable angle, from point blank range, without doing a single bit of damage. Even plunging fire, coming down from above.

Nothing. No damage.

Well okay, that was bit exaggerated, but generally in RO any generic tank vs any generic tank it ends up the guy with best aim wins. Like we know early war T-34s rape Tigers and such and such and such. Sure it's "inaccurate" by general, but as said million times in few months - just making realistic penetrations won't really 'fix' anything in the first place.